Pretty much this. I don't even do LFR unless I want a piece for transmog (white/gold warrior T15 = win) and I'm probably more tired of the idiots crying about LFR ruining 'their game' than the people who actually need LFR are.
For one thing: its not 'their' game. Its Blizzard's. For another, grow up a bit and stop throwing hissy fits about what other people have or have access to. Most people outgrow that around the age of six-seven. Its laughably pathetic to see hundreds if not thousands of 'adults' raging and acting so childishly about this stuff.
I'd be happy if all LFR threads, especially those like this one that are veiled as a question, and most importantly, each and every OP that ever started a LFR thread, would go away and never post again.
It's time to level up and quit your newbie ways
You need to go outside and get some new V-rays
A fresh breath of air will help you talk again
Inhale, exhale, feel the Oxygen
- Woodman
For my own experience, not particularly as I'd only continue to make time for WoW if I was still raiding in guilds that cleared everything on normal at least. In principle I would be pissed though, as it would almost definitely be for removed for one of the unbelievably stupid and petty reasons that make up 95% of the reasons people dislike LFR.
Well, there is also the fact that for some people, the difficulty/challenge is what makes a good game. That their opinion may now be minority opinion, does not detract from the merit of their complaints. Conversely, one could say of those who like LFR that they believe a lack of difficulty is what makes a good game; neither side of the argument had any more merit than the other, but it just so happens that those who prefer an easy experience are in the majority, and thus they will be catered to.
Okay, we're not technically FORCED to do it, but when your on a raid team not doing it is detrimental to the groups success in normal mode, some trinkets and set bonuses are very important, not to mention legendary quest progress. You can have your LFR, it just shouldn't be a shared lockout, why would you even need a separate lockout?
Funny, because I actually feel bad for people like you, who take a video game so seriously that you actually let it get to you to this degree. And no, I'm not a 'casual' who runs LFR. I'm just someone who is mature enough to understand that *my* preferred way to play the game is not automatically the way everyone else should have to.
I don't mean this as an insult, I really don't. But I couldn't imagine being so childish or petty as your post makes you sound. Earn? Working for it? Those are words that apply to things like a promotion at work/successful career, a college degree, or having a better marriage/family. World of Warcraft, as many of you seem to have forgotten along the way at some point, is a video game. Its Super Mario Bros with 7.7million people. When you die, do you really think you're going to be remembered for a damn thing you did in WoW?
"RIP John Doe. Loving father, devoted husband... OH AND LOL SERVER FIRST ONYXIA KILL SCRUBZ"
Somehow, I very much doubt it.
Its supposed to be fun to earn shit.
The second you see a game as a job is the second you should just get out, or get paid.
When we have people with this mentality of "I PAEY 15 BUCKS A MONTH GUISE GIVE ME FREE EPICS" shit just hurts the game.
and yes people were forced to do that shit at the start of every tier, everyone. From filthy casual to world first guilds, just to get that powerful set bonus or trinket that was not dropping on real raids.
I would most likely quit if LFR went away.
The guild I'm in now has raiding teams and I'm unlucky enough to have joined late.
Love the guild but no guild raids for me so I see the content with LFR only.
I agree 100% with you.
- - - Updated - - -
Uh oh.... looks like sommmmmebody forgot that LFR is locked, without exception, at the start of the each raid tier - unlocked in wings over the course of weeks and even months, when the guilds that actually clear content when it matters have normal modes on farm.
So yeah the whole 'OMG HARDCORE WURLD FIRST GILDZ HAVE 2 DO LFR TOO OMGWTF' argument is kind of a bunch of horseshit.
Allright I'll do my best to address this. A vast majority of this is based on my own observations playing since release. For some background to give you perspective, in Vnailla I did BGs primarily with a LOT of UBRS runs as a druid. In BC I PVPd with some Kara raiding as a hunter. In wrath I casual AND hardcore raided as a hunter. In Cata I casual dungeons and light pug raids. In Panda I primarily have done LFR. I'll start with the devalue epix argument.
Epics used to be something to strive for. In most games, people strive to be as good as they can be and to be what is best. It's why MOBS and Shooters have rankings. It's why people actually try and win in near every player vs player type game. MMO RPGs, like pen and paper RPGS were about this same concept except against a non player entity. You tried to clear the whole thing. You certainly didn't HAVE to, nor were you really expected to. It was like trying to get a high score on an arcade game. You simply tried to get as far as you could get. Epics were the equivalent to having your initials on a high score.
I can really only offer my own perspective as a non raider (except for in Wrath) from here on out. This meant cool looking gear had value, as things that are rare tend to have. When I saw someone in raid epics it was cool. I knew they must be good or devoted and know a lot. And it was a driving force for me to keep going. I wanted some purple text for myself. There were other ways of getting epics of course, though they were long and tedious, either through crafting or long quest chains. Those things are why I logged on every day.
Devaluing raiding is another point. Before LFR I pugged, or tried to. I had a lot of fun doing it. I think ice crown was probably the pinnacle for pugging with its stacking debuff/buff/whatever. It was nice because even the people I know who were super casual or even downright bad, made progress with pugs. Wanting to see the raid was a pretty large motivator as was the gear to a lesser extent. While progression was much slower than a raiding guild, it ensured I wasn't "done" with the raid in a couple weeks time. I kept going back, trying to form a better and better pug to progress further and further. Honestly, after a couple weeks in LFR, having killed all the bosses, I lose near all interest in stepping into LFR again, even for the gear.
Now a different point, I know many people who don't care to play anymore. These people have been playing for YEARS, some since burning crusade, some since wrath, some since day one. Why is it they all get the desire to leave at the same time? Certainly it isn't just that the game wore it's welcome at the same time for everyone. You see there is something wrong with over convenience. Some things that are good for the players, aren't necessarily good for the game itself. In an MMO an important aspect, one that WoW used to have, is that it felt like a world. Many things detracted from this, flying mounts probably being the first. Then there was the prominence of ports for everything. Then there was instant teleports into dungeons and then the same for raids, LFR. Cross server is something that didn't help with this either. At the same time, crafting became much more bleh, but quicker to get through and people wound up with tons of money, meaning they could buy what they wanted without need of leaving the AH. No more being in the world. Inconvenience lends itself to a stronger feeling of "world" and made thigns take longer making people be on longer.
Harming the social aspect is what is next. I met a lot of players pugging, and a lot of guilds I would later join. I soon learned who TO invite and who NOT to. I had a lot of fun interactive with these people. LFR has non of that, no required communication and I don't think I've ever added a single person to my friends list who was from LFR. You could say, "go form a pug" as many people do. But as Blizzard says, people are always more likely to take the path of least resistance and this isn't just about me, it's about what the community is doing. It's the fact that the community at large seems to be failing to make the social connections anymore outside of who you think is witty and funny in trade chat.
Lastly, WoW changing means other MMOs have changed. This isn't universal as I'm sure you can find examples of MMOs that try and be "old school" or what have you. But since WoW is the number one MMO making the most money, it is the one most oftenly mimicked. This means a lot of what comes out is catered to the same more "casual" demographic. So because of WoW changing, the MMO genre overall has changed away from the group who originally supported it.
LFR isn't the prime cause for many of these things, but it definitely is a part of all of them.
Oh, I'm not saying they don't have a right to their personal preferences. What they're doing, though, is trying to use those personal preferences to conclude that the feature is objectively bad, or failed, or immoral, or something. And I suspect that's because the success of the feature is deeply, personally threatening to their Weltanschauung.
"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
"Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"
You never had x tier never drop ever for months? or a trinket like rune?
I've done quon and the bird boss over 10 times on heroic and still no boots or belt. coining every week. 25 man. Of course I have crafted and rep replacements but what if it was a tier piece or a trinket, would be an upgrade even as lfr version.
nice autism
Last edited by Skadovsk; 2013-08-07 at 06:13 PM.
Missing the point.
True Hardcore Guilds have fully cleared Normals before the first LFR wing even opened. Somehow, they magically did this without their precious tier bonuses or OP'd trinkets. Anyone that feels they can't do the same thing isn't Hardcore by that definition, but only by the definition that means they will spend an unnecessary amount of time trying to get every single numerical advantage they can to compensate for the fact that they are not as good as they think they are.
All while belittling LFR and those that are quite content with it.
And if you are clearing heroic, then why do you need shit from LFR?
Well the idea is they do LFR in conjunction with normal/heroic. Because there are the few pieces that will be unlucky and not drop for them outside LFR. In that case LFR drops do offer a decent upgrade, albeit a temporary one.
Also running LFR and normal/heroic concurrently means double the chance of gear drops, even if some of that gear isnt the best, it could still be a temporary upgrade, especially where set bonuses are involved.
#boycottchina
It's difficult to answer this question with any type of certainty. My opinion is very much both ways on this.
On the one hand, LFR is an EXCELLENT tool, and brings a lot to the game. Personally, I like it being there for the current Legendary quest -- it has helped tremendously with progression through Secrets of the Empire, Titan Runestones, etc. I love it on my alts, it allows for fast-paced gear catch up to quickly get geared for alt raids, and once again - legendary quest.
On the other...
I personally feel that the LFG and LFR systems have destroyed all sense of community outside of a raiding guild in WoW. There's something about the times when you had to PUG from trade, everyone had to get to the instance themselves to meet up (there was a lot less laziness in that regard. there were always one or two but these days it seems like you're summoning 20/25 of the people in your raid because they're too fucking lazy to fly somewhere).
You met friends back then. Now-a-days, unless you already play with close-knit friends, good luck making any new ones.
You group up with people who are hardly EVER on your realm, and then as soon as the last boss is dead, everyone leaves. Not a word said the entire time, most of the time. But I do understand, everyone likes to quickly get through things to maximize game time available and accomplish what you want to accomplish in a timely manner. I just miss the good old days.
It's a very double-edged sword.
Last edited by Batix; 2013-08-07 at 06:33 PM.
If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars.
I would personally love to see LFR go away, simple coz what it made some ppl into.
Without LFR I think I'd have quit WoW for good during Cataclysm.