The sandals...really?

[Zargul]

except 0.05% versus 0.25% would only apply if you cast 1 spell which caused identical damage every time, which has and never will happen in WoW. if you are unlucky enough to miss a 1.2million damage Chaos Bolt, or a 1.5million damage Shadowburn with Havoc up, you will lose substantially more DPS than if you had a fraction more Mastery. maybe you'll miss two Conflagrates during a fight and be down 6 stacks of Backdraft. conversely, you might never miss a single spell, or miss a single Incinerate with no spell power buffs up and not even notice. you might lose a few ticks of Rain of Fire.

RNG means you can't apply a flat % to missing hit. you either take the gamble or you don't.

I have to side with AMR here.

The chance of missing a giant chaos bolt is much smaller than the 0.05% or whatever because you probably only spend a fraction of your casts on them.

Really, people who MUST hit cap are either OCD or misinformed about statistics.

To those who argue that missing a spell may cause a wipe and thus you are selfish for 'maxing your recounts,' I counter with this:
By choosing to over-cap hit instead of maximizing your DPS, you are selfish because you are increasing the likelihood of a wipe by the ratio of possible average dps compared to your lower hitcapped dps.

You'll probably never notice a spell miss even with .13% or more below hit cap. I sure haven't. I've also tanked using stacking resilience trinkets to reach uncrit-ability, technically leaving me vulnerable to crits less than 1%of the time for about 5 seconds at the start of a boss fight. I've never wiped a raid due to insta-gib.

The chance for these things to occur is so infinitessimal that if it does happen once, I'd probably be more amused at the luck.

[Shauni]

I, also, am with AMR.

It gives good guidelines if you know how to interpret it. For me, people who just click "optimize" and then complains about the inacuracies are in the same boat of people simming their char with simc with the default options.

Totally and helplessly wrong.

Simulations MUST come with context, like the whole "haste versus mastery" debate in affliction's department

[lenwedruid]

Well, i run with 14,89% hit on my moonkin, and never, NEVER miss one single hit.

[Baconeggcheese]

You shouldn't be ignoring socket bonuses unless they're crit.

For instance in your wep you're ignoring a 60 int bonus for 160 haste, where you could have 80 + 60 = 140 int there. Alternatively you could socket a 160 expertise / 160 haste gem in there and then reforge your hit around to get that back into haste or mastery while still netting the int.

no matter how you slice it unless haste is worth substantially more than int or mastery (which it isn't) then you shouldn't be ignoring bonuses for them. Crits the only stat shitty enough for aff that you could safely ignore the bonus in favor of more haste or mastery, but anything else is going to be a dps loss.

Also I would never use spirit boots when you have an = ilvl boot on. Wait for the boots off iron quon if you want haste stacked boots otherwise stick with your current as mastery is still a very strong stat for aff. Sounds to me like you didn't change stat values in AMR OR you overvalued haste in the stat values to something silly and now it thinks anything with haste is better than anything without it.

[pvw1075]

You shouldn't be ignoring socket bonuses unless they're crit.

For instance in your wep you're ignoring a 60 int bonus for 160 haste, where you could have 80 + 60 = 140 int there. Alternatively you could socket a 160 expertise / 160 haste gem in there and then reforge your hit around to get that back into haste or mastery while still netting the int.

no matter how you slice it unless haste is worth substantially more than int or mastery (which it isn't) then you shouldn't be ignoring bonuses for them. Crits the only stat shitty enough for aff that you could safely ignore the bonus in favor of more haste or mastery, but anything else is going to be a dps loss.

Also I would never use spirit boots when you have an = ilvl boot on. Wait for the boots off iron quon if you want haste stacked boots otherwise stick with your current as mastery is still a very strong stat for aff. Sounds to me like you didn't change stat values in AMR OR you overvalued haste in the stat values to something silly and now it thinks anything with haste is better than anything without it.

Wow to all the comments on the thread. Happy to cause a civil conversation about AMR.

I set it to hit thresholds.
Which I'm out our final threshold now, and doing okay DPS

We only do normal modes, and we have it on farms, we carry too many DPS/ bad players to do heroics sadly.

< SNIP >

[Baconeggcheese]

I set it to hit thresholds.
Which I'm out our final threshold now, and doing okay DPS

Thresholds are pretty much artificial / irrelevant because of pandemic and snap-shotting buffs. Unless you're in a situation where you're going to let dots fall off (that almost never happens) then the actual thresholds are pointless because pandemic gives you a window to refresh dots without losing any ticks. Warlocks are the only class with that luxury at the moment where we can completely ignore thresholds because they're completely irrelevant to how we refresh our dots.

You should not be ignoring int / mastery / haste socket bonuses to hit a threshold.

[Lysakers]

I get how we can do even more min/maxing by going 14,95% hit to get slightly more of some other stat, but personally i like to be at the cap.
That way i can focus more on mechanics and never worry about getting any misses.

I manage to compete/outshine most of my raid members dependant on fight, and those 1-2% i would gain from being slighly below hit i could cear less about.

All it comes down to is personal flavor. And if we are 14.00% hit or 15.15% will in 99% of the cases not be the difference between a wipe and a kill.

[Samariel]

I've ran below hit cap and my experience with it is that the closer you are to hit cap, the more your dps will tank when you miss because you're less likely to catch that you missed in practice. This is especially true in multi-dotting situations where I switch targets before UA cast is over.

The dps gain isn't worth the extra drain on attention required to watch for misses, but if you're godly at execution, knock yourself out I guess. As a mere mortal I'd rather make life easy for myself.

Also I'm pretty sure I'd have to shoot myself if a UVLS doom missed because I was some negligible amount below hit cap.

[Ealyssa]

if you are unlucky enough to miss a 1.2million damage Chaos Bolt, or a 1.5million damage Shadowburn with Havoc up, you will lose substantially more DPS than if you had a fraction more Mastery

But that happen how many times ?

Say you cast 60 chaos bolt in a boss fight, 10 of these chaos bolt are "MASSIVE CHAOSBOLT OMG U DONT WANNA MISS"
so you have a 0.05% chance to miss each of these CB.

1 CB miss every ~33 pulls

And for one of the 10 SUPER CB :

1 SCB miss every ~200 pulls

So you loose 0.25% damage every single pull (that also improve every non missed super chaos bolt), for one miss every 200 pulls.

Doesn't make any sens, and MrRobot is obviously right. You can fear RNG as much as you want and hardcaping hit, but it's statisticaly the wrong thing to do.

[Deleted]

But that happen how many times ?

Say you cast 60 chaos bolt in a boss fight, 10 of these chaos bolt are "MASSIVE CHAOSBOLT OMG U DONT WANNA MISS"
so you have a 0.05% chance to miss each of these CB.

1 CB miss every ~33 pulls

And for one of the 10 SUPER CB :

1 SCB miss every ~200 pulls

So you loose 0.25% damage every single pull (that also improve every non missed super chaos bolt), for one miss every 200 pulls.

Doesn't make any sens, and MrRobot is obviously right. You can fear RNG as much as you want and hardcaping hit, but it's statisticaly the wrong thing to do.

why are so many people quoting me and arguing? you might notice I also said you might miss nothing, or 1-2 unimportant casts. it's a gamble, but a gamble with good odds. ultimately it doesn't really matter, choose to do what you want to do. end of discussion.

[Spektroman]

it's a gamble, but a gamble with good odds.

That's really all that needs to be said and I absolutely agree. It might be the best gamble ever, but it's still a gamble. It's a non-zero chance that you will miss exactly when you can't afford to. Multiplied by however many raiders you have in your group that also chose to take that gamble.