Thread: Raiding.

Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
... LastLast
  1. #21
    The Lightbringer Seriss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    EU-Garrosh
    Posts
    3,000
    Quote Originally Posted by ItcheeBeard View Post

    So matchmaking flex? Which would result in so many wipes that it'd end up being nerfed. I think they have a name for that already *lfr*
    Remember the old raid matchmaking tool that is no longer in the game? Where you selected which raids you wanted to do and people who were building a raid looked in there and saw "ah, alright that guy there is a shamy and he can heal and dps, oh and he writes in his little note that he has experience and that he'd much rather heal if possible" etc.? That tool was neat. You went there to check if a PuG raid needed something and they went there to check who was interested for which instance and then began to whisper people.

    If LFR went away next expansion, that tool needs to make a comeback. Maybe new and improved with cross-server stuff and everything. Because it was really helpful and saved a lot of trade-spam. It just hooked up people directly with each other.

  2. #22
    Deleted
    They should have just made flex mode an option for all difficulties , instead of making it a difficulty setting in itself

    - Normal, HCs and LFR can now be played in flex mode, whether on 10 or 25 (10= 8-16; 25=19 to 28 or something).

    This would have meant that groups of friends / guilds / pugs, whatever the level they play on, have more options:
    A group of 10 friends who wants to smash faces in LFR and not worry about mechanics, or people not pulling their wieght etc. would be more social, and feel like a close knit experience, just a brawl with your mates.
    A normal guild could go 16 player on farm bosses to gear up people, and then scale back down to their best possible team for progress
    A heroic guild could do the same.
    The 25 man guilds are the ones that need help with flexibility at the moment. This would help them raid on the nights where 1-2 people didn't show up for example, and not have to bench people when there are new recruits / extras.

    The idea of flexbility is nice, and would increase raiding just by the fact it would be more accessible (and flexible!), but 3 levels of difficulty is already enough. (where does it end if after this patch people say flex is too easy ? want another mode ?)
    Last edited by mmoc8ee790e781; 2013-08-11 at 09:13 AM.

  3. #23
    The Lightbringer Seriss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    EU-Garrosh
    Posts
    3,000
    Quote Originally Posted by Eiffeltower View Post
    They should have just made flex mode an option for all difficulties , instead of making it a difficulty setting in itself

    - Normal, HCs and LFR can now be played in flex mode, whether on 10 or 25 (10= 8-16; 25=19 to 28 or something).

    This would have meant that groups of friends / guilds / pugs, whatever the level they play on, have more options:
    A group of 10 friends of wants to smash faces in LFR and not worry about mechanics
    A normal guild could go 16 player on farm bosses to gear up people, and then scale back down to their best possible team for progress
    A heroic guild could do the same.
    The 25 man guilds are the ne that need help with flexibility at the moment. This would help them raid on the nights say where 1-2 people didn't show up for example, and not have to bench people when there are new recruits / extras.

    The idea of flexbility is nice, and would increase raiding, but 3 levels of difficulty is fine. (where does it end if after this patch people say flex is too easy ? want another mode ?)
    The problem I see with things like heroic flex is "Hey, we need to do that boss on heroic flex with x people because that way we still remain at 2 people affected ability y and we can bring another healer that way and another tank." It would just open yet another can of perfect-lineup worms.

    If flex is too easy for you, you should go normal mode.

    Likewise, if normal mode isn't enough of a challenge, you go heroic.

    You need to make a choice when flex is too boring to you: continue raiding socially in flex, or find a guild that is interested in more challenging content.

  4. #24
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Seriss View Post
    The problem I see with things like heroic flex is "Hey, we need to do that boss on heroic flex with x people because that way we still remain at 2 people affected ability y and we can bring another healer that way and another tank." It would just open yet another can of perfect-lineup worms.
    But it's already pretty much the case in heroics. You stack classes, specs or cooldowns to maximie efficiency.
    4 lock gateways on Iron Qon, on lei shen for helm, DK grips etc.

    It would still remain maximising the kill strategy on progress, but you could gear up more people when that boss is on farm

  5. #25
    I think that, if blizz is going to continue their trend, there will be an increase in normal raiders, but not initially. I think this, because, in the past Blizzard has always progressively made the last raid easier, with the buff in ICC, and the debuff in DS, making it more accesible for the common player. The only thing that will prevent players from killing bosses will be the mechanics at the end of the tier, whereas they would've wiped otherwise because of the damage and/or dps requirements.
    i7 4790k @ 4.7 / Noctua nh d-14 / MSI Z97S SLI Krait / MSI GTX 970

  6. #26
    number of people raiding successfully always goes up in the final raid tier. after a little while.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Seriss View Post
    I could actually see that happen. Not in MoP because it would be too much of a cut in the middle of an expansion. But for next expansion when everything is under evaluation again, I find it a realistic scenario that we'd have Flex - normal - heroic.
    if that would happen blizzard would shoot themselves in foot with it - they gave wide crowd taste of raiding with lfr - taste cause everyone who want to try it can - there are no achievement/idiotic high ilv requirements for it and it can be faceroll - people like it - but tbh realistically they didnt even had to implement FR as additional difficulty - they could have just tuned normals lower so that guilds could clear it easier and keep hc tuning as it is now for those who really seek chalenge in game with the flexible raid size for normal difficulty - if anything in future i guess they will go in this direction - cause flexi even thou it will be nice addition - it wont be spectacular succes - cause pugs will still give people unrealistic requirements to join as normal pugs do now and nothing will change - people will still cba to deal with it

    other thing- alts - people are overestimating number of alts people will run flexi on - all those who raid normals/hc will pug their alts for normal not flexi cause why to waste time on flexi when u can pug normal if u have time and chievos -_- time which average social guild will spend on clearing flexi will be longer then it will take an alt run opf hc raiding guild to faceroll through normal so why bother with flexi - and lets be fair - the thing which really counts for normal pugs is chievo not itlv when only u are in lfr gear with upgrades -_- so people will still run their alts through lfr rather then flexi - cause in lfr u can just alt tab and collect both vp and some gear with only 12 itlv lower then flexi sdo why bother - in flexi u wont be abke to slack/afk

    Someone can say thise heirlooms which will drop in flexi will be incentive to do it - wrong - for tiny minority maybe - but normal/hc raiding guilds will farm those in normal/hc why bother with felxi for more then first few weeks when they will farm both for trinkets - but when they will farm them they wont bother inviting people from trade - cause they would only slow them down - so again why bother .

  8. #28
    Honestly I only see 2 raid difficulties next expansion. Flex and heroic with heroic being the 25 man only difficult raid mode and flex being what it will be in 5.4. The increase in number of raid difficulties is partly attributing to inflating item levels and overall character power which is also causing problems in other phases of the game such as questing content, pvp and other solo content in the world.

  9. #29
    Wow, people sure are pie-eyed around here.

    Face facts, LFR is never going away. EVER. It's here and a part of the game the way LFD and flying mounts are. Unlike flying mounts, they're not going to continually cut it on and off like a child who just learned what a light switch does, though.

    This is the future of WoW. All group content is going to have:

    1)Easy queueable mode.
    2)Easy pre-form mode.
    3)Moderate pre-form mode.
    4)Challenging pre-form mode.

    You -might- see them attempt to incorporate flex mechanics into normal and heroic as a way to bridge between 10 and 25, but more likely they'll just keep Flex separate for that.

  10. #30
    I think in 5.4 flex raiding will be cata dragon soul normal, Easy and you can pug it and hopefully kill most of the bosses and normal will be for the more experienced guilds and rarely seen in PuG groups like HC pugs were in cata and HC will be just for raiding guilds maybe you can find a group looking for 1 pug and 9/10 guild run but a full pug of in HC will be very very hard

  11. #31
    Immortal seam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Parking lot of Grass
    Posts
    7,237
    Forgive me for coming in here kinda uninformed, but how exactly will Flex Raiding work? Is there a post with a lot of info on it? Is there a limit to the number of people(Aside from the 40 man raid group limit)?

  12. #32
    LFR isn't going anywhere. I'd love heroic and normal raiding gain access to the flex ability though.

  13. #33
    I am Murloc! Nobleshield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    5,876
    Quote Originally Posted by Seriss View Post
    Remember the old raid matchmaking tool that is no longer in the game? Where you selected which raids you wanted to do and people who were building a raid looked in there and saw "ah, alright that guy there is a shamy and he can heal and dps, oh and he writes in his little note that he has experience and that he'd much rather heal if possible" etc.? That tool was neat. You went there to check if a PuG raid needed something and they went there to check who was interested for which instance and then began to whisper people.

    If LFR went away next expansion, that tool needs to make a comeback. Maybe new and improved with cross-server stuff and everything. Because it was really helpful and saved a lot of trade-spam. It just hooked up people directly with each other.
    The problem with that tool is that nobody used it. There should be something like that still in the game that lets you just kind of put that out there without queuing, but people have to use it. Honestly what I think we need more than anything else is a global chat back again. The reason most of us stay in cities all day is because that's where everything goes on. I would gladly deal with a few idiots and trolls in a global LFG chat if it meant I could be out doing my dailies or farming or whatever anywhere but Shrine and still know that there's an Ooondasta group forming without relying on guildies passing it along.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by seam View Post
    Forgive me for coming in here kinda uninformed, but how exactly will Flex Raiding work? Is there a post with a lot of info on it? Is there a limit to the number of people(Aside from the 40 man raid group limit)?
    From what we know: Queue for it in wings with LFR, need a premade group like Heroic Scenarios, anywhere from 10-25 people and it scales somehow (not sure how yet) based on the number of people. Loot is LFR style personal loot. Seems to be basically be like a heavily nerfed normal mode but not LFR style of removing things, so you still have to deal with mechanics they're just a lot more forgiving and the boss has less health and damage.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Halicia View Post
    I expect we'll see a decline in Normal raiders, but more of a decline in LFR raiders.

    Normal raids are simply too complex mechanics-wise for Normal players. People with experience raiding may not have an issue with it, but its a catch 22, Raids have been too difficult this expac for new players to GET experience raiding, so there's less players able to raid, and consequently, its harder for new players to even get carried and get experience raiding.

    LFR in DS performed well at showing people the mechanics they would see in Normal, but they abandoned that training aspect immediately in favor of "3 loot pinatas with different shapes".

    I *hope* flexraids will introduce more players to 'organized raiding' and pull them away from LFR, but its also likely to draw many people away from Normal raids as well. I doubt anyone currently doing Heroic raids will even take notice of flexraids, except as a way to trial new recruits or goof off with their reallife friends/tradepugs.

    Once connected realms hits (and the resulting higher 'server' populations), there should be a significant rise in Normal and Heroic RAIDING guilds, simply because there's more players whose schedules/personalities now match up.

    There may also be a higher then usual bump in players to normal/heroic raiding in the next non-raid patch (assuming there is one) as guilds that were focusing on flexraid try for bigger things. (we can dream, right ?)

    Current tier raids are NOT hard. Raids cannot be made HARD.

    All raiding can be broken down into simple mechanics that once they are realized and managed the percieved difficulty goes away.

    go here/don't go there mechanics
    use raid wide/personal cooldown mechanics
    beat a soft or hard enrage timer mechanics
    kill order mechanics
    crowd control mechanics
    vehicle mechanics (press button one two or three)

    if LFR/normal wannabe players only stop to realize this there will be a higher success rate and thereby more normal players.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    The problem with that tool is that nobody used it.


    nobody, is understating it. I can remember posting pug raids to it all the time, or using it when I felt that I might be short a player or two. of course this was in wrath when the content was more conducive to pugging.



    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    Loot is LFR style personal loot.
    so you just lost a lot of prospective raiders right there. an organized raid with no organized looting.
    There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP

  15. #35
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by ItcheeBeard View Post
    DS LFR was waaaaay easier than any of the MoP LFRs. The only reason it served to give people a good taste of DS is because DS was a joke and I should know as I was a wet behind the ears nub during ds and still managed to kill 7/8 HC (admittedly with 20-25% nerf).

    Elegon, Garalon, Durumu, Lei Shen

    These four fights are harder in their LFR state than DS normal ever was.

    - - - Updated - - -



    So matchmaking flex? Which would result in so many wipes that it'd end up being nerfed. I think they have a name for that already *lfr*

    Plus I'm not sure how it would decide how many people to group you with between 10 and 25. Would it stop when you have enough healers and tanks? Or would it just be set to 25 but people can leave? Oh no that's LFR again :P
    Pfff heroic DS raiders after the nerf think they can talk about how hard anything was. DS normal was quite easy, but then again it was an end exp tier. It was however never as easy as lfr, if you would have done them at the start you would have known that.

    Oh and another thing, DS hc before the nerfs was VERY hard.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Miscam View Post

    Oh and another thing, DS hc before the nerfs was VERY hard.
    nope

    (........................)
    There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP

  17. #37
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    nope

    (........................)
    10 man Heroic Spine says hi...... Can't stack Arcane Mages? Have fun killing the tentacles GG.

  18. #38
    I miss the days of Normal 10/25 raiding. Sometimes, too much choice, is a bad thing. Now we/will have LFR, Flex, Normal, Heroic. Too many choices. You killed the mmo experience. Now its just a queing experience. I remember the days of BC and early Wotlk. People knew you on your server and knew if you were good or not from experience and the way you play with others.

  19. #39
    If you ask me no one is raiding normal right now because gear is more important than player ability on every fight in the raid except for Lei Shen. Not that there aren't people who don't want to, but i lol every time someone asks for full clear cheevo to down 4 bosses. Price of fuckups are not high enough.

    You could not suck and take people through tot in entry level gear. Or you could suck, have gear, and roll your face through 11/12.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Danishgirl View Post
    10 man Heroic Spine says hi...... Can't stack Arcane Mages? Have fun killing the tentacles GG.
    it still was not "hard" it was merely having to know what classes to stack to defeat that particular mechanic.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Masochist View Post
    If you ask me no one is raiding normal right now because gear is more important than player ability on every fight in the raid except for Lei Shen. Not that there aren't people who don't want to, but i lol every time someone asks for full clear cheevo to down 4 bosses. Price of fuckups are not high enough.

    You could not suck and take people through tot in entry level gear. Or you could suck, have gear, and roll your face through 11/12.
    farming 11/12 in four hours.
    have only downed #12 once
    no heroic modes down.

    been raiding two months.
    There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •