Your thoughts on tanks trying to do dps

[Inthislzon]

Except different tanks take different amount of damage passively.
And here your goal is still to take as much damage as possible, just so you reduce more of it (even if it's the same or possibly even smaller %)

The damage a boss does is fixed. Take something like Lei Shen, that has a bit of everything.

Autoattacks? Same deal as now, fixed damage is fixed.
Sitting? Gz on 0 mitigation (= 0 vengeance)
Void zones? Don't give vengeance
Tanking with decapitate? No vengeance, as you take over 100% damage. Remember it's based on whatever damage the boss should do to a target of your armor, so if you should get hit for 100k, anything over 100k means 0 vengeance.
Lightning lash? Same deal as void zones, no vengeance.
Static shock splitting? As a raid member you are encouraged to enter in order to split damage into more targets, nothing new here.
Letting bouncing bolts bounce in order to tank adds? With DR on vengeance (1/2 for second mob, 1/3 for third and so on) the reward is barely worth the risk.
P3 debuff? Ok, i give you this one, but an individual spell could be flagged to not grant vengeance.

Anything else i may be forgetting about? Any other boss you have doubts?

[Deleted]

Since you agree that the damage a boss does is fixed, once again, what is the problem with the current vengeance system that is fair to all tank classes?

Sitting is getting removed either way.
Crashing thunder does not give vengeance either way now, it actually decreases your vengeance so you get penelized for standing in them.
What logic does it makes that, in this case, anything over 100k means 0 vengeance. Decapitate debuff is a part of the fight, it is intended to be there. You should not be penelized for being able to tank it.
The lightning whip barely gives vengeance as it is.
Since the tank is solo on a platform, how is static shock even relevant since you will never ever split one as a tank.
I always let the bouncing balls bounce, not for vengeance, the adds doesnt even hurt the tank, the vengeance they provide is non-existant. No, I let them bounce so I can bank up holy power on them so I can have 6 second SotR as soon as transition ends for a smoother start while we are still grouping up.

Either way, Lei-Shen was a terrible example, as there is not much cheesing going on here, the only thing players are currently doing on Lei-Shen to increase their vengeance is sitting, which is going away in 5.4 either way.

[celinamuna]

The damage a boss does is fixed. Take something like Lei Shen, that has a bit of everything.

Autoattacks? Same deal as now, fixed damage is fixed.
Sitting? Gz on 0 mitigation (= 0 vengeance)
Void zones? Don't give vengeance
Tanking with decapitate? No vengeance, as you take over 100% damage. Remember it's based on whatever damage the boss should do to a target of your armor, so if you should get hit for 100k, anything over 100k means 0 vengeance.
Lightning lash? Same deal as void zones, no vengeance.
Static shock splitting? As a raid member you are encouraged to enter in order to split damage into more targets, nothing new here.
Letting bouncing bolts bounce in order to tank adds? With DR on vengeance (1/2 for second mob, 1/3 for third and so on) the reward is barely worth the risk.
P3 debuff? Ok, i give you this one, but an individual spell could be flagged to not grant vengeance.

Anything else i may be forgetting about? Any other boss you have doubts?

So a) lol @only auto attack damage b)why don't we just make all bosses give same set amount of veng and just go to happyafktanking land ?

[Deleted]

So a) lol @only auto attack damage b)why don't we just make all bosses give same set amount of veng and just go to happyafktanking land ?

That would be a far better solution than basing it on damage avoided/absorbed/healed. Though, current system is still better than both those options.

[Lumune]

Tanks contributing damage is a decent factor while they shouldn't be a top DPS they should do reasonably well just for the fun factor, grinding and soloing.

[Inthislzon]

Since you agree that the damage a boss does is fixed, once again, what is the problem with the current vengeance system that is fair to all tank classes?

Either way, Lei-Shen was a terrible example, as there is not much cheesing going on here, the only thing players are currently doing on Lei-Shen to increase their vengeance is sitting, which is going away in 5.4 either way.

I took Lei Shen because it had lots of skills. Also my comment on static shock was more aimed at P1, P2 and P3 rather than intermissions. The point is rewarding tanks for something other than being punched by the boss.

If you are god's gift to tanking, time your CDs perfectly every single boss and i just smash CS/judg/SotR/AS we are both doing the EXACT SAME, despite me being playing like shit.

In the same way you can see the difference between a great and a shitty dps, or healer, you should be able to do the same with tanks.

So a) lol @only auto attack damage b)why don't we just make all bosses give same set amount of veng and just go to happyafktanking land ?

I am already AFKing boss encounters. Keeping shuffle up is not an issue. I just look at my screen from time to time to maybe pop a CD.

What i do now and what i did on cata/wrath/bc is mostly the same.

[announced]

its fine if the paladin is trying to better himself. haste is a dps stat but also the most valuable tank stat in the game for them. therefore they need it to survive. because of this they gem for haste and reforge to it. but anyway.. if he dies trying to gain vengeance by being bad make sure to yell at him. if not its ok. i always cringe when i see tanks doing 10-20k dps instead of 80-100k like their supposed to.

[Deleted]

imo, a tank shuldent gem for dps or trying to dps, a real tank shuld try to survive..

but that is just imo.

But why survive, when you can both survive and do extremely good DPS? Tank deaths is generally an issue of the past.

[Deleted]

Yes,

Now tanks have lot of survival cooldowns, it's much easier