500% Threat generation is not enough!

[Deleted]

want it to go back to classic tanking and have a trash pack wipe a group over and over again because a tank can't keep aggro?

Excellent point, dear sir.
They should make it so that if a tank is within 200 yards range it will automatically have aggro on everything. Taunts will be kept in order to maintain some control of the battle.
No but seriously.. I miss threat-management being a basic task for a dpser.

[LeperHerring]

Then again I am weird - I also miss the resist stacking fights.

I actually miss that too. Resistance gear was primarily a gating mechanism, but it also turned out to be a guild organization check.

[Homsel]

Well, they reduced Vengeance gained in some situations, and they're expressed a desire to have threat be a non-issue in light of the focus on active mitigation... but it does seem a little excessive.

I'm too surprised Blizz still change numbers in such a way instead of just slightly adjusting mechanics. 40% is just a HUGE factor (from 500% to 700% in this case), it is on the same level as nerfing some healing spells by 30%. And afterwards they have to revert these changes, because a 5-10% would have sufficed...

[squid]

I can't believe all the people in this thread wanting to go back to dps not doing anything for 5-15 seconds at the start of a fight, and tanks tabbing through targets with mandatory addons to make sure each little monster got his fair stab to the face, when theres more important things to worry about now like mechanics and movement on boss fights. Active mitigation takes more skill and is more fun then making sure you used heroic strike on each individual mob so your healer doesn't get one shot.

[Deleted]

want it to go back to classic tanking and have a trash pack wipe a group over and over again because a tank can't keep aggro?

yeah, absolutely

[Deleted]

Actually, there's a massive tank shortage, so everything that makes tanking easier and/or more desirable is a great decision. Plus, it's gonna simplify the fight against Oondasta a little bit.

I can't see why there's so much QQ, despite of the usual people whining for the sake of whining.

[DetectiveJohnKimble]

Funny how so many people can completely ignore the text it's associated with.

[Cirque]

want it to go back to classic tanking and have a trash pack wipe a group over and over again because a tank can't keep aggro?

Yes.

No, really, yes. That to me what tanking was about. Combine this with active mitigation, and we suddenly have a fun role again. For me.

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Uhm, while i can see why you would miss threat mechanics (for the record: I don't miss it at all)... You miss resist stacking fights? Urm, how come? Resist stacking fights had nothing to do with 'gear selection' you mentioned, as there was nothing to select: Huhuran/Ragnaros/Shazrah is next? OK, time to get that Nature/Fire/Shadow resist gear out of my bank and put it on.

Not to mention there wasn't any skill nor fun involved, as equipping gear isn't particularly skill demanding and suddenly doing half your normal dps doesn't really qualify as fun.

Well, arguably, it could be interesting to have more valuable sets of gear, rather than just one as we do now. I also would love the emphasis on dps to go away a bit.

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I can't believe all the people in this thread wanting to go back to dps not doing anything for 5-15 seconds at the start of a fight, and tanks tabbing through targets with mandatory addons to make sure each little monster got his fair stab to the face, when theres more important things to worry about now like mechanics and movement on boss fights. Active mitigation takes more skill and is more fun then making sure you used heroic strike on each individual mob so your healer doesn't get one shot.

I'm not talking vanilla model tanking, but more like wotlk model tanking. I always thought threat was an interesting and fun mechanic to play around with, especially as tank, but also as dps. I was a bit less impressed as a resto druid, as fellow (ex)druids will confirm.

[Roguezor]

Not skill but knowing which abilities were worth using and which were not for tanking. and you could actually lose aggro if you didnt fight for it. Much more fun than the current system at least.

I dont know why some people think the game gets better if you remove things threat, travel, instance groups and so on. omgz blizz its too hard for us to hold aggro, dps diez noo, plz buff.

I'm sorry but, you have NO idea how "not fun" it is fighting for aggro as a prot warr against a pala/druid tank + 3-4 people bursting 300-500k dps on a heroic boss. Lose aggro just a few sec and it might be enough to kill the other tank or wipe the whole raid due to dps getting 1 shot.

And it's not just "knowing which abilities that are worth using"... atm prot warriors are the dust lickers (any warrior spec tbh) of the tank specs. We have half if not one third of the damage of any other tank.

Sure, other tanks might not need this buff really, but as a warrior (mainly fury but tanking every now and then if 1 tank can't show up) I'll be happy for this change... altho as I said it would be enough if warriors only got this, or even a bit smaller buff if anything at all.

[Deleted]

Because looking up a guide on what buttons to press is really difficult. Tanking now is much more fun, it is better. You don't just stand there spamming the buttons and avoiding the fire like a dps while being a meatshield. You have to ACTIVELY use abilities to avoid taking damage, you need to plan when you're going to use x cd. It's not *that* much more complicated, but it's better than what it was.

Dude where have you been the last months? You are joking right? Tanks are currently actually sitting IN FIRE or even SIT DOWN to take a crit for more Vengeance and dps. Currently tanking is the new dps. Thanks to the Vengeance crap.

[SL1200]

Either active mitigation goes out the window, or threat generation goes out the window. Tanks shouldn't be forced to do both. Really its a non issue to me, because i quit tanking when they brought in active mitigation. It's just not as fun as it used to be, at least for Warrior tanks.

[Grogo]

Do you really think it took skill back then? Tab target sunder/revenge/hs spam was hardly difficult.

and if you recall tanks didn't even spec tank. We went down 15 points into defiance and went elsewhere with the rest of the points.

Oh yeah, you knew the good from the bad, had to use all abilities, had to have better awareness etc. etc. etc.

Actually I cant believe you have the balls to even say that, get your head in the game.

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want it to go back to classic tanking and have a trash pack wipe a group over and over again because a tank can't keep aggro?

I want to go back to having skill, showing skill, learning skill and experience. Sure beats the current zerg fest scenario any day of the week.

[Deleted]

Either active mitigation goes out the window, or threat generation goes out the window. Tanks shouldn't be forced to do both. Really its a non issue to me, because i quit tanking when they brought in active mitigation. It's just not as fun as it used to be, at least for Warrior tanks.

You mean the good ol' days when you just sat there spamming your buttons which had no effect on your survivability, instead relying on dodge and parry to get the job done? That was actually fun to someone?

Anyway, not sure why this is implemented. Mobs stick to me extremely well already. If i have any problem its mostly snap threat on some aoe packs. Like Horridon adds or bats at Tortos. Even then its mostly skill issue to know how to position yourself and slight planning ahead to have specific skill off cd when i need them.

Not going to moan about it. Makes my job more convenient i guess.

[PickleballAce]

I miss having to sit there twiddling my thumbs, not playing the game I paid to play because I was a little bit too bursty for an undergeared or underskiilled tank, waiting an eternity for him to establish a threat lead that wouldn't vanish with an "unlucky" Chaos Bolt/Conflag double crit combo.


No....wait, I don't miss that at all.

[Faladrath]

What makes it better? Just as I said? Its only redeeming factor of "LOOK AT MY BEEFY TPS EVERYONE"? Get real man. Tanking has changed for the better. The game was infinitely less complicated in vanilla, just few knew anything about how to actually play, so it made the game feel more difficult to players less in the know. Now we're in 2013 where me, you, and many other people have been playing too long to keep track. The amount of abilities required has increased at least 2x over. It is more complicated and more fun to have a mastery over the current playstyle. Great tanks will be great tanks and far more noticeable than they were in the past. Reducing the threat modifiers on abilities wont make anything better.

You seem to miss the entire point of my post, lets try again in bigger words. You say you feel your doing something now that tanks does dps, and that being a good threat maker = "LOOK AT MY BEEFY TPS EVERYONE" now change out tps with dps and you got what you are so happy about doing now.... Now my point was, tanks would be much more enjoyable(if your a good tank) and regonicable for being great tanks if you had to do both not just one of them. And your line of great tanks will be great, no they wont, a great tank can not be noticed on most(not all) fights now adays, unlike before threat got trivialized. If there was dps/tps/active migitation in tanks they would see alot more reward in what they do(if again,they dont suck), but as most things is getting easier and easier classwise then I doubth that will ever happen.

[Deleted]

want it to go back to classic tanking and have a trash pack wipe a group over and over again because a tank can't keep aggro?

Yes, back then tanking was actually a challenge and a lot of fun. I enjoyed it a lot, now it's just take damage and win the dps meter.

[Eranthe]

Everyone that says that active mitigation is much more of a fun mechanic than threat must not realize that's they're just different means to the same end. Blizzard wants you to need to use your abilities so your raid kills bosses. Whether that means keeping yourself alive (active mitigation) or keeping your raid alive (old style threat management) it still leads to tanks having to hit the right buttons at the right time.

Which system is better? That's a matter of opinion, pure and simple. I tend to like both and I wish threat and active mitigation could be balanced, and I think it's possible, but not likely that it will happen.

With 500(540? 700?) percent threat modifier, they might as well just say that all mobs prefer to attack tanks and just run right to the tank and let him use active mitigation. There's very little skill or thought or interesting gameplay in the current threat model that they're trivializing ever more. Active mitigation is fun for some classes, but to me, there's a few glaring problems with it, (guardian druid in general, massive dps scaling, vengeance cheese) that never would have existed if threat was still the mechanic that tanks were required to think about. Aside from that, there's been TONS of developer time used simply to change the reasons tank care about hitting their buttons.


It all comes to the same in the end though. Hit your buttons in the right order and win; don't and lose.

[LeperHerring]

Everyone that says that active mitigation is much more of a fun mechanic than threat must not realize that's they're just different means to the same end. Blizzard wants you to need to use your abilities so your raid kills bosses. Whether that means keeping yourself alive (active mitigation) or keeping your raid alive (old style threat management) it still leads to tanks having to hit the right buttons at the right time.

They are very, very different in a fundamental way. Threat mechanic was something that tied the group's performance together, while active mitigation is just a solo activity like a dps cycle.

[Nellise]

Can't really have threat be meaningful now when half the dps specs have a way to drop threat and half don't. If a warlock and dk were both dpsing at the same rate, catching up to the tank slowly but surely, the warlock can simply hit shatter and continue dpsing but the dk would need to stop. Having the tank determine your max dps isn't fun when others aren't limited in the same way. And if you give threat drops to everybody instead, threat isn't an issue once again and all you did was give an extra unnecessary ability to everybody.

Anybody who really wants threat back (aside from tanks) should try to remember dpsing in BWL. Wanding or doing nothing for half the fights was awesome. Broodlord had such extreme threat drops on the tanks that as a warlock I sometimes managed to pull threat wanding the whole fight (shatter didn't exist yet).

[Fluorescent0]

Everyone that says that active mitigation is much more of a fun mechanic than threat must not realize that's they're just different means to the same end. Blizzard wants you to need to use your abilities so your raid kills bosses. Whether that means keeping yourself alive (active mitigation) or keeping your raid alive (old style threat management) it still leads to tanks having to hit the right buttons at the right time.

Which system is better? That's a matter of opinion, pure and simple. I tend to like both and I wish threat and active mitigation could be balanced, and I think it's possible, but not likely that it will happen.

With 500(540? 700?) percent threat modifier, they might as well just say that all mobs prefer to attack tanks and just run right to the tank and let him use active mitigation. There's very little skill or thought or interesting gameplay in the current threat model that they're trivializing ever more. Active mitigation is fun for some classes, but to me, there's a few glaring problems with it, (guardian druid in general, massive dps scaling, vengeance cheese) that never would have existed if threat was still the mechanic that tanks were required to think about. Aside from that, there's been TONS of developer time used simply to change the reasons tank care about hitting their buttons.


It all comes to the same in the end though. Hit your buttons in the right order and win; don't and lose.

Active mitigation is dynamic in that you're reacting to a specific encounter (think timing SotR or Elusive Brew), the max TPS cycle is just a rotation.