This is Thrall's Fault

[XangXu]

Lol, Garrosh was trying to pvp as fury until pretty recently.

[Digory Kirke]

I think that at the end of the day, it was just a mistake. No one is infallible, even Thrall. Its just that the mistakes of people in positions of power tend to have larger consequences, you know?

Fair point.

[Comp]

Ultimately, everything that has happened under the tyranny of Garrosh Hellscream falls on the shoulders of Thrall. Even though he is considered a selfless hero, his decision to give the mantle of Warchief to Garrosh was a serious lack of judgement, discernment, wisdom, and (I believe) flawed moral character.

Besides the CLEAR signs that Garrosh wasn't ready for the responsibility (his attacking Varian at a diplomatic meeting in Dalaran, his behavior during the Trial of the Crusade, and his challenging Thrall after taunting his leadership ability), Thrall ignored critical advice and council from his most trusted friends. Vol'jin warned him, Cairne warned him, and Saurfang disagreed as well, yet Thrall was either too proud or too blind to recognize the serious mistake he was about to make. Even after he gave Garrosh the mantle, Voljin and Cairne expressed serious concerns, which Thrall ignored. Thrall should have corrected his mistake before he left for the Maelstrom.

So, why did Thrall ignore the friends he trusted and make a devastating decision like this? My answer would be Thrall's own selfish ambitions. One thing you learn very early on about Thrall is that he had a deep affection for his fallen friend, Grom Hellscream. What would bring Grom more honor than for his own son to lead the Horde that he died to save? I believe that it was Thrall's desire to honor Grom's memory that blinded him to the serious danger that Garrosh posed to the world.

Yes, it was Thrall's duty to leave Orgrimmar and save us from the Cataclysm, but of all of the options he had for a temporary Warchief, he chose the worst possible candidate. Voljin, Carine, Saurfang, Nazgrim, and Etrigg would have all been obviously better choices than Garrosh. But again, Thall was blinded by his emotional need to honor Grom's memory.

The genocide of Theramore, the destruction of the Vale, the death of Cairne, and for every other act of savagery that Garrosh has unleashed on Azeroth, the blame falls to Thrall.

In my opinion, he is a fallen hero who owes a serious debt to the people of the Horde, the Alliance, and of course the Pandaren.

As a Horde player, I firmly oppose any further influence that Thrall has in the Horde, especially in selecting a new Warchief.

Thrall has unwillingly become a villain this saga, even though he had good intentions.

Consider how many lives would have been saved and how much destruction could have been prevented, if Thrall hadn't failed so miserably despite the trustworthy advice of his friends.

I do agree there's a certain responsibility that falls on Thrall for this. Garrosh was never ready for a position such as that... Seriously, who take a crackhead off the street and says "hey, let's make you mayor, it'll make you feel better about yourself!" (yeah, I just realized there's probably too many places that do this....).

The saddest part, however, is we're seeing the same thing happen now with Maraad. This rebellious, bloodthirsty Dranei would let those he's been entrusted to protect (including children) die for the sake of killing an orc. And yet now we see he's getting some sort of "redemption" thing? Don't think so. He's already proven to be a bigger piece of shit than Garrosh was, and yet we're gonna go with the "it won't happen again" thing.

I guess they'll write it in however they want, probably to make the Alliance feel like they have a hero in all of this, but the reality is that Maraad has done things he should be judged for, not released back into the war.

[Comp]

Maraad shirked his duty to seek vengeance. It's shitty but no where near as bad as anything Garrosh has done. I'm guessing people who think like you are what Blizzard is banking on when they say the Alliance has done things *just as bad* as the Horde...

I wasn't suggesting shirking his duty was "just as bad" as what Garrosh did by the end... But where we find Maraad in his beginnings and where we found Garrosh? Maraad is already 10x ahead of Garrosh. And letting this bloodthirsty coward run free is no bueno for anyone.

Again, I doubt they're going to write it that way, because the Alliance needs something. Chances are it'll be a redemption story and will end up in flowers and pop tarts for the Alliance, it just seems a little tacked on to make a hero out of him.

Time will tell. But I'd like to see Maraad as a raid boss just so we can put him down like the dog he is.

[Nekrotix]

Alright, here's a thought.
So on Timeless Isle we go collect thousands of Epoch Stones for Kairoz.
With these Stones, we use an Hourglass to see into the future and past.
In these visions, we see some very unsettling events, such as the murder of a Bronze Dragon, Anduin meeting Garrosh in a locked cell, as well as Stormwind corrupted with the Sha.
Kairoz uses the empowered Hourglass to send Garrosh back in time to 35 years in the past.
Garrosh stops Grommash from drinking the Demons Blood, and Grommash forms the Iron Horde.

Thus, If we gather Epoch Stones for Kairoz, then the Iron Horde is formed and they invade Azeroth.

With this logic, we actually are to blame for the events of Warlords of Draenor. Good going, guys.

[Deleted]

Well yeah it's easy to say it's Thralls fault in hindsight, but that's in hindsight.

[Deleted]

This is Hitlers mom fault not his...

[Comp]

Um, what?

Maraad doesn't need redemption of any kind

he dies in talador

Good that he's gone. Wish they had let us kill him.

Just goes to show: nothing good can come for a Male Dranei.

[Kayb]

Garrosh chose his own path, plain and simple.

[Lime]

Thrall's fault? No.

But Thrall, Vol'jin, and Cairne did a really horrible job at advising him.

It's also funny that because SoO has been out for so long, a thread made a year ago is just as relevant as it is today.

[Headayke]

Totally agree with OP, I will follow Thrall into battle against the Iron Horde he could have prevented but when it comes down to it, he has let a grand number of us down for what he did. What happens on Nagrand does not excuse Garrosh or Thrall of the actions on both Azeroth soil and this new Dreanor, there are still so many atrocities to recover from and all this Dreanor nonsense just to watch Thrall's attempt at a clean heart, to wipe away his mistakes. Wrong. His mistake cannot be forgiven so easily, this was a burden we endured for far too long and watched too many people die by the hands Garrosh, and the one person who pulled the trigger on that Garrosh gun. Stood Thrall that despite everyone advised him not to, is the reason we are now faced with an entire land of blood thirsty orcs.

[Deleted]

Thrall's fault? No.

But Thrall, Vol'jin, and Cairne did a really horrible job at advising him.

It's also funny that because SoO has been out for so long, a thread made a year ago is just as relevant as it is today.

Thread would've been relevant since the reveal of MoP when we were told ahead of time about SoO.

[zoomgpally]

Cairne was disqualified for being too old-fashioned and couldn't even keep the tauren united. Vol'jin wasn't even considered.

Couldn't even keep the tauren united? Talking about those crazy grimtotem dudes?

Because all orcs are united, right?

- - - Updated - - -

Garrosh chose his own path, plain and simple.

But he was made warchief AFTER he chose that path and made it really obvious to everyone.

[Deleted]

Honestly in cataclism while hot headed, Garrosh was a good leader. He still valued honor and was against killing innocents which you see if you did the stonetalon quests where he actually executed a general for doing that.
Then MoP came and he became a stereotypical "i am bad" villain.

[Trassk]

Fair point.

You necroed a thread from 2013 to say that?

It's no wonder alliance fans can't get a happy from the lore, all the expectations and victim mentality.

Funny how you people don't draw to that fact it's as much Varians fault for this, and he is the reason for this current expansion

[Deleted]

read only few words,nope.....its all king varian wrynn fault,he did nothing to prevent this

[Trassk]

Stood Thrall that despite everyone advised him not to, is the reason we are now faced with an entire land of blood thirsty orcs.

People accuse thrall for being a mary sue, who is a character that remain completely blameless in what they do, yet here thrall is saying he not only knows his mistake he made with garrosh, but is prepared to correct that mistake, coming to SoO to kill him.
And who is the asshole who stops him? Who's the giant douche that keeps thrall from cracking his skull open? Who's the dickcheese that keeps thrall from doing what he ends up doing ANYWAY in WoD?

Yeah, you want to place the blame game on a character who had good intentions but fucks up royally, here he is.

[Lupinemancer]

I like that Garrosh was only supposed to be temporary Warchief and yet ended up becomming full-time Warchief.

[CheeseSandwich]

Just thought of a funny scenario.

As the Heroes of Azeroth line up behind Thrall before the new dark portal, they exchange sideways glances and knowing nods. Thrall delivers a heart felt speech to inspire these heroes on the battle ahead, and it is met with a halfhearted cheer, which momentarily takes Thrall aback. Nevertheless, Thrall shouts, "Come heroes! For Azreoth! For freedom!!" and charges through the portal. By himself.

The very moment he sets foot into that haize of magic, the catapults and glaive launchers are fired, so the structure of the portal is destroyed. As well, a group of skilled shamans remove a huge trench of earth beneath the remaining vortex, filling it with fire and molten hot lava. Warlocks summon lava immune demons to patrol the lake. Mages take shifts watching the entryway, chain polymorphing and porting to raise the alarm should something go through.

And thus, Azeroth was rid of Thrall forever. And only Aggra was slightly miffed. But Rexxar came and swept her off her feet, so she was happier in the end.

[Roamingstorm]

People accuse thrall for being a mary sue, who is a character that remain completely blameless in what they do, yet here thrall is saying he not only knows his mistake he made with garrosh, but is prepared to correct that mistake, coming to SoO to kill him.
And who is the asshole who stops him? Who's the giant douche that keeps thrall from cracking his skull open? Who's the dickcheese that keeps thrall from doing what he ends up doing ANYWAY in WoD?

Yeah, you want to place the blame game on a character who had good intentions but fucks up royally, here he is.

http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7...qwyzo1_400.gif

Also have to remember Varian was also the "rawr war guy" during Wrath. Books and comics showed the guy on how much he wanted to kill off the Orcs. Honestly I feel it's the whole reason why Thrall chose Garrosh was just seeing how Varian was at that time and knowing war was bound to come. So who better to lead then the young prodigy tactician that was praised by all the Horde races that participated in the war in the north. Thrall knew they needed a military leader. He couldn't trust Sylvanas, Lor'themar was recently appointed to lead the BEs, Cairne was not a great tactician, Vol'jin was already tempted to join the Troll Empire again on top of being flaky.

To Varian's defense though he did want to end Garrosh there, but by Alliance hands (for obvious reasons), but honestly if we were to blame anyone for Garrosh living it would be Taran Zhu and the Pandarean for taking him to a trial.