The Dark Below Removed from the European Trademark Database [updated]

[Aeluron Lightsong]

This debate will end either when Blizzard confirms TDB to be fake (for some reason they still have not done so) or once the next expansion is announced at Blizzcon, whatever comes first.

Or we'll have another Pandaria and be caught by surprise. I doubt it but you never know.

[Yarathir]

Remember naxxramas? Was introduced as the last Vanilla WoW patch. What came next? TBC.

TBC, btw, didn't hint at WOTLK. Besides the whole pre-expansion "ghoul mayhem" patch, that is. But by that time, we already knew.

WOTLK did have the ruby sanctum. But by that time, we already knew that the next expansion would feature Deathwing.

And MoP? No hints whatsoever in previous expansions.


So, you're kinda off, here.

I spoke about the "potential" and (just to clarify or people will jump/pounce on me) wholly unconfirmed pattern of one expansion between the expansion that hints at a threat, and the expansion when the threat actually starts.


I'll post a shortened version again, because I can't find the older one. It might look a bit stranger due to that.


1. Classic: all of the place but ended peculiarly with a high-ranked Scourge minion: Kel'thuzad --> possible hint towards expansion 2= WoTLK

2. The Burning Crusade: Lady Sinestra/Sintharia and black dragon lore all over the place. Existence of Deathwing --> possible hint towards expansion 3 = Cataclysm.


3. WoTLK: No conclusive hint, but Garrosh's descent down the wrong path foreshadowed in his behavior and his little talk with Saurfang -- > possible hint towards expansion 4 = Mists of Pandaria. I think the overall idea might have been to have Garrosh go nuts and evil in expansion 4 all along, while the Pandaren stuff was not known about until the expansion was created. In other words: that was padding for the core concept of Garrosh = go evil.


4. Cataclysm = N'Zoth/Azshara hints abound. The threat is there and being built up, and Deathwing is in fact N'Zoth's minion.



5. Mists of Pandaria = Burning Legion hints abound. The threat is there and being build up actively by Wrathion's hints.



6. The Dark Below/whatever name may end up being of Azshara/N'Zoth expansion (IF IT IS TRUE)



7. The Burning Legion expansion.

[Cooper]

Btw if you think the burning legion is the next expansion, I suggest you just stop posting in this thread, because so far you all are making yourself look silly starting fights and not stating any evidence other then they keep mentioning the burning legion in MoP.

You mean the exact same justification you're using, just replacing "Burning Legion" with "Old Gods"?

[Tharkkun]

Obviously because I noticed the hinting pattern, which you still seem to not see/grasp/understand.

Name evidence for other options except the Burning legion returning.

Btw if you think the burning legion is the next expansion, I suggest you just stop posting in this thread, because so far you all are making yourself look silly starting fights and not stating any evidence other then they keep mentioning the burning legion in MoP.

You know what they also mention in MoP? In the conclusion to the Legendary quest, Wrathion states his intentions of using the alliance to conquer the rest of the broken horde to unite to be prepared for the Legion. He said it would at least take a year to conquer the Tauren at least, so why would the legion show up right after MoP?

Don't worry, you all will get the legion after TBD, no need to fret

The evidence is that there is no evidence. Patch 5.5 will be your evidence when Blizzards decides which direction to take the story. By the time that hits we'll have the expansion details at Blizzcon.

[Yarathir]

Or we'll have another Pandaria and be caught by surprise. I doubt it but you never know.

This is also possible. I hope not, but it could easily be that way. Until then, there are two apparent important threats left. N'Zoth and Azshara and The Burning Legion and Kil'jaeden/possibly Sargeras.



Mists of Pandaria was a nice break, but I hope they throw no more curveballs and go straight down to business myself.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

This is also possible. I hope not, but it could easily be that way. Until then, there are two apparent important threats left. N'Zoth and Azshara and The Burning Legion and Kil'jaeden/possibly Sargeras.



Mists of Pandaria was a nice break, but I hope they throw no more curveballs and go straight down to business myself.

I think there should still be curve balls but not in the way Pandaria. I mean keep all this stuff hidden. It's nice to have hints but at the same time it would serve the experience better to keep us guessing. Just me personally. Even if Sargeras ends up being after TDB(If that's what it ends up) I suspect they'll do just an avatar of him or a shade or echo or another adjective to use to avoid using Sargeras in full form(Cause we'd be dead.

[MoanaLisa]

This debate will end either when Blizzard confirms TDB to be fake (for some reason they still have not done so) or once the next expansion is announced at Blizzcon, whatever comes first.

Why on earth would Blizzard confirm it as a fake when it's generating 160-page discussion threads on a fan website? Hell, the thread has generated a ton of discussion and hype for the next expansion without Blizzard spending a dime. Why would they stop that?

As for whether or not there's actual evidence to be gleaned from this event or that thing in the current expansion, keep in mind that it's possible that there are all sorts of red herrings [false clues for those who don't read crime novels] in there too.

[Grubjuice]

Why on earth would Blizzard confirm it as a fake when it's generating 160-page discussion threads on a fan website? Hell, the thread has generated a ton of discussion and hype for the next expansion without Blizzard spending a dime. Why would they stop that?

if anything it is providing important insight into how we think

[Yarathir]

I think there should still be curve balls but not in the way Pandaria. I mean keep all this stuff hidden. It's nice to have hints but at the same time it would serve the experience better to keep us guessing. Just me personally. Even if Sargeras ends up being after TDB(If that's what it ends up) I suspect they'll do just an avatar of him or a shade or echo or another adjective to use to avoid using Sargeras in full form(Cause we'd be dead.

N'Zoth is supposed to be an unrestrained, fully powered Old God. He's supposed to be really powerful too. I think there are also those who OVERESTIMATE Sargeras. He's NO pushover at all, but he's not as powerful as everyone makes him seem. The whole "burning aura" thing for one. Broxigar could withstand it just fine, and I'm sure we, as the player heroes are pretty much on that level, if not beyond it. We're not some small fry anymore.

[Hitei]

N'Zoth is supposed to be an unrestrained, fully powered Old God. He's supposed to be really powerful too. I think there are also those who OVERESTIMATE Sargeras. He's NO pushover at all, but he's not as powerful as everyone makes him seem. The whole "burning aura" thing for one. Broxigar could withstand it just fine, and I'm sure we, as the player heroes are pretty much on that level, if not beyond it. We're not some small fry anymore.

Yeah but I mean... Knaak..

[Cooper]

I think there should still be curve balls but not in the way Pandaria. I mean keep all this stuff hidden. It's nice to have hints but at the same time it would serve the experience better to keep us guessing. Just me personally. Even if Sargeras ends up being after TDB(If that's what it ends up) I suspect they'll do just an avatar of him or a shade or echo or another adjective to use to avoid using Sargeras in full form(Cause we'd be dead.

Once again: just because an expansion might be Burning Legion focused does not mean Sargeras would have to be a part of it. It's not like they can only do one Burning Legion expansion and that's it.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Once again: just because an expansion might be Burning Legion focused does not mean Sargeras would have to be a part of it. It's not like they can only do one Burning Legion expansion and that's it.

I wasn't saying that. I said if they wanted Sargeras to be involved I speculated they might use a lesser form of him. Idc what they do(Aside from the extremes).

[Yarathir]

Yeah but I mean... Knaak..

It's canonical whether you want it or not though. :P



And if we can take on an unrestrained, fully powered Old God. I think Sargeras is a fair possibility too. Remember that N'Zoth couldn't actually be defeated by the Titans when they first went to imprison the Old Gods? Yes. He's a bad-ass.

[Knight Gil]

I spoke about the "potential" and (just to clarify or people will jump/pounce on me) wholly unconfirmed pattern of one expansion between the expansion that hints at a threat, and the expansion when the threat actually starts.


I'll post a shortened version again, because I can't find the older one. It might look a bit stranger due to that.


1. Classic: all of the place but ended peculiarly with a high-ranked Scourge minion: Kel'thuzad --> possible hint towards expansion 2= WoTLK

2. The Burning Crusade: Lady Sinestra/Sintharia and black dragon lore all over the place. Existence of Deathwing --> possible hint towards expansion 3 = Cataclysm.


3. WoTLK: No conclusive hint, but Garrosh's descent down the wrong path foreshadowed in his behavior and his little talk with Saurfang -- > possible hint towards expansion 4 = Mists of Pandaria. I think the overall idea might have been to have Garrosh go nuts and evil in expansion 4 all along, while the Pandaren stuff was not known about until the expansion was created. In other words: that was padding for the core concept of Garrosh = go evil.


4. Cataclysm = N'Zoth/Azshara hints abound. The threat is there and being built up, and Deathwing is in fact N'Zoth's minion.



5. Mists of Pandaria = Burning Legion hints abound. The threat is there and being build up actively by Wrathion's hints.



6. The Dark Below/whatever name may end up being of Azshara/N'Zoth expansion (IF IT IS TRUE)



7. The Burning Legion expansion.

Well yes, you got a point there. There are indeed hints all over the place about possible next expansions. I just meant that, usually, the next expansion isn't really predicted by the previous one.

[Cooper]

I wasn't saying that. I said if they wanted Sargeras to be involved I speculated they might use a lesser form of him. Idc what they do(Aside from the extremes).

Well, a lot of people seem to believe that, even going so far as to use it as "proof" that the next expansion won't be BL themed, "because we won't fight Sargeras this soon" or somesuch.

[Yarathir]

Well yes, you got a point there. There are indeed hints all over the place about possible next expansions. I just meant that, usually, the next expansion isn't really predicted by the previous one.

Oh. No, sure it's not a 100% confirmation at all. Just that I feel the pattern may be there and it may have a bit of merit. I don't even really have a personal prejudice. I know both expansions N'Zoth&Azshara and The Burning Legion's return will happen eventually, so whatever happens, and whichever expansion ends up being next, I can go and enjoy it.

[tobiashunter]

Personally, even if Blizzard intended to call the next expansion "The Dark Below", with it getting pulled from OHIM, I wouldn't be shocked if someone trademark squats it. (They register the trademark hoping that Blizzard does want to use it, hoping to turning it into a payday for them to turn over the rights to the trademark). With that said, if Blizzard does have it registered in a non-searchable database, their hand will be forced when it goes through the publication process. They'll either have to trademark it with priority (because it was filed elsewhere first) or they'll have to contend with a squatter, in which case, they'll probably just think of another name and redo the art as needed (Title, Box cover, CD cover, Launcher, etc etc.. anything where the name would show up).

But this is just my thoughts and opinions.

[Bill Nye the Spy]

To be fair most of these aren't very solid evidence.

1) While Ra'den's quote does lend itself to being about DaLow, it could also just be a metaphorical statement about how Azeroth is standing on the edge of a cliff in terms of danger. Another way of saying that Azeroth is a lone candle surrounded by darkness.

2) "Don't say it could be the legion as well, because after 5.4 the portal is still guarded." True. But after 5.4 no horrors rise from the sea. 6.0 could be DaLow stuff rising from the ocean, or it could be the Legion retaking the portal, it's rather silly to just completely ignore one while putting faith in the other.

3 and 4) I put these together because they are the same. Neither adds validity to DaLow's existence. If a Hoax trademark was made with the name "Fall of Argus" does that make every Draenei who is a member of "The Hand of Argus" evidence that the expansion is real? If it was a hoax, the name was chosen BECAUSE of Ozumat, it's no hint.

5) True, but the Legion's return was also hinted at during Cata by velen's prophecy. And we saw hints of the return in subtle places like the Satyr in Hyjal who is awaiting the master's return.

6) Not sure why this is even on the list. Sargeras and the Legion are still out there too.

7) This just part of number five.

8) There was a lot of ice in the Splash Screen teaser that Blizzard did prior to WotLK, I wonder why. (No reason, the teaser was actually for D3 -- I'll save you the post)

9) I fail to see how the puzzlebox indicates anything about what expansions are to come, it just says that Ny'alotha and the Black Forest exist, etc. Refer to number Six.

10. There is no reason for Azshara to attempt to resummon the legion. She only sought their help the first time because she wanted more power for her plan to cleanse the world. Assiting the legion completely backfired and resulted in her and the majority of the noble caste being thrown into the sea to drown and then turned into horrible sea monsters. Why on earth would she bother to try something like summoning the legion again, when she now has the strength of both Old God empowerment, and Neptulon. A Legion expansion could perfectly tie into an Azshara expansion. With the Alliance and Horde struggling to recover from barely winning on another planet, the opportunity to strike arises.

11. This isn't a thing. Why would you add this.


This isn't to say that I think a Legion expansion is more likely.
I think either one could work, and that it's entirely dependent on Blizzard's whim.

I just think if you're going to be cocky with lines like:



You should at least provide one piece of real, hard evidence in your post, instead of a list of things that don't prove anything.

Your really grasping at straws here.

1. I don't know how you came to the conclusion that "yawning chasm of darkness beneath you mortals" means "Azeroth is standing on the edge of a cliff in terms of danger. Another way of saying that Azeroth is a lone candle surrounded by darkness." Beneath means beneath, not above where the legion always comes from, or portals.

2. 5.5 will bridge the gap, if there still is a 5.5. At the least the event before will. You do realize people are still guarding the portal right? Why would the legion attack when the Alliance aren't at their weakest? The Legion always attacks when we are at our weakest.

3/4. More TDB hints in cata then Legion. And your Hand of Argus argument, they showed up in TBD, not Cata. Legion has always been the main threat, of course there will be some sort of reference to them throughout each expansion.

5. First off, they didn't return. We where on a different planet in the prophecy. Since you brought up Satyr, Xavius was the Nightmare lord if you recall. Hm I wonder who corrupted the Dream?

6. Yes, but how are they going to invade? We aren't that weak right now.

7. See 5

8. Yet WotLK came out, and they announced D3 expansion already. Unless Titan got finished quickly or Legacy of the Void is about water, I find your statement invalid.

9. More hints, that's why its relevant. Has to do with everyone below.

10. You don't know how the story progression will go yet? Why wouldn't Azshara invade after TBC then? Lol, the legion is the only group to invade when we are at our weakest. See WC3: Reign of Chaos (The scourge)

11. because there's more I forgot about

Nice try overall, but none the less, wrong.

I can be cocky because I have stuff to back me up.

[Valort]

Krasus speculated that should the Old Gods open the gates of their prison, even Sargeras would find himself pleading for the peace of death.

Krasus had an army of raptors, anything he speculated, discussed, opined or even thought, is moot.
+ He happens to be dead now (Finally! Good riddance!)

[Hitei]

It's canonical whether you want it or not though. :P



And if we can take on an unrestrained, fully powered Old God. I think Sargeras is a fair possibility too. Remember that N'Zoth couldn't actually be defeated by the Titans when they first went to imprison the Old Gods? Yes. He's a bad-ass.

Jokes on you.

N'zoth IS Sargeras.

Have you had the dream again? A black goat with seven eyes that watches from the outside.

Outside = Twisting Nether.

Did I blow your mind?