Flex released same schedule as normal

[Deleted]

*facepalm*

HoF and ToeS both dropped the same ilvl gear and in terms of dificulty they weren't much apart from each other.

So please tell me how ToeS was half a tier higher up than HoF

"ToT wasn't gated, so SoO won't be gated either."

how old are you? Five?

Any time they've gated a raid they have made sure everyone has known long beforehand. Same goes for limited attempt bosses and suchlike. IIRC the release schedule for hof/toes was out before testing really started.

[Tojara]

If they were to gate it at all I'd rather it be like.

Week 1 - Normal/Flex wing 1 open
Week 2 - Normal/Flex wing 2 open (LFR wing 1 open)
Week 3 - Normal/Flex wing 3 open
Week 4 - Normal/Flex wing 4 open (LFR wing 2 open)
Week 5 - Heroics available
Week 6 - LFR wing 3 open
Week 7 -
Week 8 - LFR wing 4 open

I can't remember how they did ToES/HoF/MGV but they did give a fairly decent warning that there would be gating. I do however remember them gating something in T14 that wasn't planned to be gated by another week or two just because they wanted to give people more time.

[Squishei]

There are realistically 2 options: Normal and Flex are both gated or Normal and Flex are both open on day 1. I really don't like either of these options, first one there's going to be not much to do or the second option there will be too much to do.

Hopefully it's a typo and he meant LFR or something. Hoping for the release schedule blog soon.

[Karon]

Any time they've gated a raid they have made sure everyone has known long beforehand. Same goes for limited attempt bosses and suchlike. IIRC the release schedule for hof/toes was out before testing really started.

I know that, but they have two weeks left to announce the gating, it would be a late call, but it isn't impossible, or?

[Deleted]

Hahaha. Won't happen.

If this:

Week 1 - Normal/Flex wing 1 open
Week 2 - Normal/Flex wing 2 open (LFR wing 1 open)
Week 3 - Normal/Flex wing 3 open
Week 4 - Normal/Flex wing 4 open (LFR wing 2 open)
Week 5 - Heroics available

would happen, that would piss off every single HC raider.

And them letting guilds start HCs in each wing separately is even less likely.
In T14, you could at least do MSV HC normally (etc..), as they where completely separate raids. This would be like if MSV HC would have needed ToES Normal clear. Won't happen.

[Deleted]

I know that, but they have two weeks left to announce the gating, it would be a late call, but it isn't impossible, or?

Aye, not impossible, just uncharacteristically clumsy and awkward.

They like to let the HC crowd what they are up against in good time so that the world firsters can organise and get ready.

[TS26]

Sigh, now raiders will whine about having to do flex.

[MrExcelion]

Just bad wording on Tom's part. Pace is a sort of buzzword in dev speak, but misleadingly used here.

[Thiron]

Is there anything you can tell us about the timeline for opening Flex difficulty wings beyond that it will be faster than LFR, such as how soon the first wing will open?
It will be the same pace as Normal raids.

The way I personally understand it is that first wing of flex will be opened same time as normal, with later wings being opened faster than LFR, but still delayed.

Week 1: Full Normal, Flex Wing 1
Week 2: Full Heroic, Flex Wing 2, LFR Wing 1
Week 3: Flex Wing 3
Week 4: Flex Wing 4, LFR Wing 2
Week 6: LFR Wing 3
Week 8: LFR Wing 4

[Vereesa]

Is there anything you can tell us about the timeline for opening Flex difficulty wings beyond that it will be faster than LFR, such as how soon the first wing will open?
It will be the same pace as Normal raids.

The way I personally understand it is that first wing of flex will be opened same time as normal, with later wings being opened faster than LFR, but still delayed.

Week 1: Full Normal, Flex Wing 1
Week 2: Full Heroic, Flex Wing 2, LFR Wing 1
Week 3: Flex Wing 3
Week 4: Flex Wing 4, LFR Wing 2
Week 6: LFR Wing 3
Week 8: LFR Wing 4

What's confusing people is the word 'pace' which would indicate that normal wings are also gated.

I'm hoping this is just an error on their/MMO-Champion's part. And while gating normals would be a pretty surprising move, it wouldn't be completely unprecedented what with ICC's gating and the like.

[Sengiratolom]

Week 1: normal open
Week 2: Flex and HC open, LFR wing 1
Weeks after that= remaining LFR wings.

Flex pace= same as normal pace, but not the same day.

[Nobleshield]

Good I really hope they do this. My guild had planned to do Flex first to get a feel for the bosses before trying them on Normal. With their stupidly saying that they like the "more personal responsibility" garbage, I have a feeling that we're going to be spending more time in Flex than in Normal

[Deleted]

Good I really hope they do this. My guild had planned to do Flex first to get a feel for the bosses before trying them on Normal. With their stupidly saying that they like the "more personal responsibility" garbage, I have a feeling that we're going to be spending more time in Flex than in Normal

Looks the same way to me - normals are going to be tuned like T14 again.

Fuck that sideways.

[Jaxxsonp]

Looks the same way to me - normals are going to be tuned like T14 again.

Fuck that sideways.

What was wrong with tier 14? I thought it was okay for average players. I did roflstomp them, but i'm in the minority. I was under the impression that Garalon was a problem boss. The rest seemed to be okay.

[Nobleshield]

Looks the same way to me - normals are going to be tuned like T14 again.

Fuck that sideways.

Worse, they're going to be tuned like T15 with that level of personal responsibility (Hello, Tortos, Meg, Dark Animus, Lei Shen), or that's what I gathered. Lei Shen was a TERRIBLE personal responsibility fight and the only reason I was even remotely okay with it was because he was the final boss so you'd expect him to be "Bring your A game". But a fight like Tortos on the other hand... second too late with turtle? Wipe. Second too early with turtle? Wipe. Have latency when you're kicking? Wipe. Boss delays the ability for a fraction of a second when you think it's going off? Wipe. Kick turtle from too far back? Wipe. Kick turtle a degree too much to the left/right? Wipe.

We don't need fights like that. I'm sorry, but some personal responsibility should be expected (e.g. if you get the debuff, don't drop the voidzone on the raid and run out), but not this tricky-ass "Let's require perfect timing or you wipe the raid" kind of crap.

And to anyone who would say "That's why there's Flex", that's what I'm afraid of.

- - - Updated - - -

What was wrong with tier 14? I thought it was okay for average players. I did roflstomp them, but i'm in the minority. I was under the impression that Garalon was a problem boss. The rest seemed to be okay.

For personal responsibility T14 didn't have much that I recall outside of Garalon (DON'T STAND UNDER HIM YOU NOOB, etc.), everything else was pretty straightforward. Maybe Gara'jal with the shadow realm stuff too. But they said that it will be more like T15 which has a few fights where personal responsibility is there in droves and even a slight mess-up is causing a wipe.

[Terridon]

Technically, yes. ToeS IS a half tier above HoF, HC Tunings aside.

SoO is releasing identically to ToT, which had no gating outside of LFR. This continues with SoO.

I've been realm first on my mediocre realm for every tier except 1 and 13. Congrats at judging me and being entirely wrong.

Sadly you won't just admit that you're completely wrong. There's nothing else to discuss here, because SoO isn't gated outside of LFR.

You can be a great player, but know nothing about what goes in with the game. Doesn't really matter how good you are if you don't follow what's going on.
I'm still curious to this, since i havn't seen any come with anything proving it back, and "pace" is something going on over time, so either blizzard made some fuckup and used the wrong word, or it's gated.

[Deleted]

Worse, they're going to be tuned like T15 with that level of personal responsibility (Hello, Tortos, Meg, Dark Animus, Lei Shen), or that's what I gathered. Lei Shen was a TERRIBLE personal responsibility fight and the only reason I was even remotely okay with it was because he was the final boss so you'd expect him to be "Bring your A game". But a fight like Tortos on the other hand... second too late with turtle? Wipe. Second too early with turtle? Wipe. Have latency when you're kicking? Wipe. Boss delays the ability for a fraction of a second when you think it's going off? Wipe. Kick turtle from too far back? Wipe. Kick turtle a degree too much to the left/right? Wipe.

We don't need fights like that. I'm sorry, but some personal responsibility should be expected (e.g. if you get the debuff, don't drop the voidzone on the raid and run out), but not this tricky-ass "Let's require perfect timing or you wipe the raid" kind of crap.

And to anyone who would say "That's why there's Flex", that's what I'm afraid of.

Ah gotcha. Don't forget "whirling turtle in front of the one you have to kick = wipe." Tortos is high responsibility and high RNG which is always bullshit.

For personal responsibility T14 didn't have much that I recall outside of Garalon (DON'T STAND UNDER HIM YOU NOOB, etc.), everything else was pretty straightforward. Maybe Gara'jal with the shadow realm stuff too. But they said that it will be more like T15 which has a few fights where personal responsibility is there in droves and even a slight mess-up is causing a wipe.

Elegon - need everyone to dps a pillar, no carrying. Melee dancing required for will, move arcane stuff on feng. Little bits here and there, but you are right not as much as throne.

But yeah - flexi.

[Terridon]

Looks the same way to me - normals are going to be tuned like T14 again.

Fuck that sideways.

Which is why they made flex. Is a lot of raids that do enjoy the current difficulty, and would be sad to see it go down.
So flex is for those struggling with it, which i see nothing wrong in

[Deleted]

Which is why they made flex. Is a lot of raids that do enjoy the current difficulty, and would be sad to see it go down.
So flex is for those struggling with it, which i see nothing wrong in

12/12 1/12 HC here.

Not struggling, it's just shit.

[Nobleshield]

Which is why they made flex. Is a lot of raids that do enjoy the current difficulty, and would be sad to see it go down.
So flex is for those struggling with it, which i see nothing wrong in

That's what I'm afraid of... that the creation of Flex is going to kick guilds like mine out of Normal modes, because we have some things that can't be changed e.g. we have a guy who raids out of a hotel (travels) and sometimes had really bad MS, another is 12 years old (his father raids with us too) and his awareness sometimes lacks, another guy is a bit slow moving out of things, etc. and I'll have to decide if I want to progress through normal and into heroic, or play with people I have fun with, because I can no longer do both anymore.