[Balance] T16H BiS List

[Fleuria]

Slippy can you add combos with the healer crit damage trinket? seeing as crit damage is quite a massive thing althought its probably more massive for ele/mage than druid seeing as they have 50% extra.

[Juvencus]

Just as something to wonder it doesn't appear that we will be able to upgrade the ilvl of the Hellscream Weapons and Offhand and since that, appears, to be the case won't the current MH and OH drop down since we can get about 6 ilvls a piece from using other options?

BoA Garrosh weapons are already upgraded.

BoA normal: http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=104402

BoE normal: http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=103937

Both from Garrosh.

[Slippykins]

Slippy can you add combos with the healer crit damage trinket? seeing as crit damage is quite a massive thing althought its probably more massive for ele/mage than druid seeing as they have 50% extra.

I decided not to include the two healer trinkets because they were really far below the other three, even Blood. I can have another look, but as far as I could see it contributed something like half the DPS of the DPS trinkets.

[AutomaticBadger]

BoA Garrosh weapons are already upgraded.

BoA normal: http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=104402

BoE normal: http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=103937

Both from Garrosh.

Then it is still likely that they aren't going to be BiS.

They are capping out on heroic made at 574 while all other weapons, that being Heroic Warforged, are opening at 572 and once upgraded go to 580 ilvl.

That should mean we get more Int and secondaries.

[Fleuria]

I decided not to include the two healer trinkets because they were really far below the other three, even Blood. I can have another look, but as far as I could see it contributed something like half the DPS of the DPS trinkets.

Yah i thought it would be that way for Druid, just funny that because of the extra 50% crit damage on Ele/Fmage they can afford to drop an 11k int proc for it.

[Slippykins]

Yah i thought it would be that way for Druid, just funny that because of the extra 50% crit damage on Ele/Fmage they can afford to drop an 11k int proc for it.

That's nuts. I suppose our lack of gains from it also stems from crit not being as dominant of a stat next tier - mastery seems to be interchangeable with crit at most gear levels. I mean, I'm not sure it'll stay that way, but it looks to be stable.

[Juvencus]

Then it is still likely that they aren't going to be BiS.

They are capping out on heroic made at 574 while all other weapons, that being Heroic Warforged, are opening at 572 and once upgraded go to 580 ilvl.

That should mean we get more Int and secondaries.

True, I only checked Normals >.<

[Deleted]

Great work as always. Just to add my 2c - if youre using crafty gems youre not maxing the spirit scaling on bindings. Wouldnt using potents/artfuls and some spirit reforges yield higher results? Additionaly as AutomaticBadger pointed out, "Hellscream's" weapons will most likely not be upgradable, so it's worth investigating if a 2/2 Horned Mace or some other weapon doesnt yield higher results. Lastly, this most likely changes almost nothing, but for more accurate results the legendary cloaks ppm should be changed to 2,66 instead of the 1,6x it has now. Additionaly - since the mastery raid buff gives rating, instead of %, wouldnt it benefit from bindings aswell?

[Slippykins]

if youre using crafty gems youre not maxing the spirit scaling on bindings. Wouldnt using potents/artfuls and some spirit reforges yield higher results?

Reforging the secondary stats wont help I don't think - the trade-off would be gaining int and losing expertise, nothing more. Since neither int nor expertise scale with the amplification trinket, neither gem gets a benefit from that amplification factor. Instead, it's just a 2x secondary stat vs. 1x int comparison, in which the secondary stats win. At least, that's what I'm thinking. It's a bit confusing (to me at least), but it should just cause other amplified secondary stats to be reduced.

Additionaly as AutomaticBadger pointed out, "Hellscream's" weapons will most likely not be upgradable, so it's worth investigating if a 2/2 Horned Mace or some other weapon doesnt yield higher results.

I'll definitely look into the other weapons and disable upgrading on the Hellscream's weapons. It's unfortunate that they don't look upgradeable, since they do naturally have a higher ilvl. There's still room for another PTR change before release though.

Lastly, this most likely changes almost nothing, but for more accurate results the legendary cloaks ppm should be changed to 2,66 instead of the 1,6x it has now.

I can see in the sheet that it's set to a 1.62 base RPPM, but where are you getting the 2.66 base? On Wowhead and Wowdb the base RPPM is 2.42 (which I'll ask Tec/Hamlet about), but nothing about 2.66. Could you clarify?

Additionaly - since the mastery raid buff gives rating, instead of %, wouldnt it benefit from bindings aswell?

No clue. Possibly, but there's a chance it only multiplies stuff on your gear.

[craigp100]

I can see in the sheet that it's set to a 1.62 base RPPM, but where are you getting the 2.66 base? On Wowhead and Wowdb the base RPPM is 2.42 (which I'll ask Tec/Hamlet about), but nothing about 2.66. Could you clarify?

2.66 is the RPPM value for Balance druid as the cloak had RPPM modifiers added for the different specs - you can see them on the wowhead PTR page for the cloak here http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=102246/x...reath-of-yulon

[Slippykins]

2.66 is the RPPM value for Balance druid as the cloak had RPPM modifiers added for the different specs - you can see them on the wowhead PTR page for the cloak here http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=102246/x...reath-of-yulon

Yeah just got the same response from Hamlet on twitter. Wont change anything gear-wise but it'll be a sizable DPS buff.

[Owlkin]

About cleave trinket. I spend about 2 hours testing it. Cleave does not proc on single target. More precisely when it proc, it damage all enemies around, but not the target.

[Mathrys]

2.66 is the RPPM value for Balance druid as the cloak had RPPM modifiers added for the different specs - you can see them on the wowhead PTR page

from wowhead as well the 2.66 modifier is for the iLvl 600 cloak but if you fully upgrade the cloak the RPPM becomes 2.87 for balance.

[boomkinhero]

Great work on the trinket list, slippy. Kudos to tec and hamlet as well and as always.

I think a big reason why the blood trinket isn't doing well is because of the duration of the proc. Comparatively, the wushoolay proc gave us 2 seconds per stack -- you could get 2 GCD's off in that time, even finish a cast. Optimizing to a 1 sec window is going to hurt a lot, especially since the GCD is only 1 second. I assume wrathcalcs is just taking an average for the proc, and if so, blood may be even weaker than it appears on paper.. because I could see it 100% possible the last stack and most OP stack, not even get used most of the time.. it procs then wears off mid-cast etc.. have to stop casting to make full use of it.

[huth]

Yah i thought it would be that way for Druid, just funny that because of the extra 50% crit damage on Ele/Fmage they can afford to drop an 11k int proc for it.

Fire mages have increased crit chance, not damage. That's solely for Elemental.

[Deleted]

HC WF Purified Bindings of Immerseus is 8% amplification of stats, with 2/2 is it still 8% or does it go to 9%?

[AutomaticBadger]

HC WF Purified Bindings of Immerseus is 8% amplification of stats, with 2/2 is it still 8% or does it go to 9%?

I think it stays static but the proc goes up to compensate

[Deleted]

Juvencus is probably right about the weapons not being upgradeable because they are already 8 ilvl higher than the other weapons. The reason they are worse is because they can't be WF'ed (or atleast those are not on the PTR yet). If they could be WF'ed they would go to 580 ilvl aswell, making them better purely because of the extra socket.

[Deleted]

Reforging the secondary stats wont help I don't think - the trade-off would be gaining int and losing expertise, nothing more. Since neither int nor expertise scale with the amplification trinket, neither gem gets a benefit from that amplification factor. Instead, it's just a 2x secondary stat vs. 1x int comparison, in which the secondary stats win. At least, that's what I'm thinking. It's a bit confusing (to me at least), but it should just cause other amplified secondary stats to be reduced.

Using napkin-math I concluded it would be a gain if 2x secondaries wee better than 1 int by no more than 8%, since the actual number is like 24%, you're right that it ends up being a net loss. Going to actually calculate before I post next time -_-

[AutomaticBadger]

Juvencus is probably right about the weapons not being upgradeable because they are already 8 ilvl higher than the other weapons. The reason they are worse is because they can't be WF'ed (or atleast those are not on the PTR yet). If they could be WF'ed they would go to 580 ilvl aswell, making them better purely because of the extra socket.

*Grumble* I brought that up *grumble*

That aside yeah I agree that is probably why. Still means that they probably won't be BiS