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  1. #701
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Same thing happened for the Horde in Fenris Keep... by pulling the rug out from under the Horde player with a "We won!!! Now retreat!!!" turnaround and the use of a Deus Ex Machina (Worgen curse) to grant victory.
    Wow. You keep surprising me with ridiculous comments and fallacious comparisons.

  2. #702
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Wow. You keep surprising me with ridiculous comments and fallacious comparisons.
    You must strike at their leaders, <name>. You will find them holed up in the old keep. Battle your way inside and find the holdouts! Turn them for your queen!

    None shall escape the mighty grasp of the Forsaken!

    Agatha says: This way, <name>. We will take them by surprise.
    Caretaker Smithers, Phin Odelic, Henry Maleb, Sophia Zowski, Bartolo Ginsetti and Loremaster Dibbs are in a meeting with Lord Darius Crowley and Ivar Bloodfang.
    Lord Darius Crowley says: The Forsaken have broken through your defenses, magistrate.
    Lord Darius Crowley says: You are out of time.
    Lord Darius Crowley says: A decision must be made.
    Lord Darius Crowley says: Die in battle and be raised as a servant of the Forsaken or...
    Lord Darius Crowley says: Drink my blood and be reborn as worgen, immune to the depravity of the Forsaken.
    Lord Darius Crowley says: Help us destroy the Forsaken and retake Lordaeron for the Alliance!
    Magistrate Henry Maleb says: We would rather die than be turned into worgen, but seeing as how even death provides no relief from the atrocities of this war...
    Magistrate Henry Maleb says: We choose vengeance!
    Maleb and the other members of the leadership grabs a vial of worgen blood and promptly drinks it, turning them into worgen.
    Agatha says: Run...!
    Agatha says: RUN!
    Agatha grabs you and flies you out of the keep while worgen attempts to kill Agatha.


    You were saying?


    BTW, that's a nice biased sig you got there. "Massacred every man, woman and child in Theramore"... except the part where the civilians escaped Theramore. Espousing a character's quote who is plain lying through her teeth to promote propaganda.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-08-30 at 05:02 PM.

  3. #703
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antoine de Coolette View Post
    That is a strictly hypothetical situation [seriously, how likely it is for Horde to suddenly have their content written as an afterthought now that the momentum of inspiration has only increased?]. hence it is hard to employ in an argument.
    No. Its not. If the Horde players had been subjected to the same treatment as Alliance players, then they would be complaining right now as well. If the next Xpac ends up treating the Horde the same, then the complainst will start earkly and grwo and grwo...just as Alliance players did.

    This isn't a hypothetical.

    Further, I note with interest that you DO acknowledge the Alliance story as an "afterthought".

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    BTW, that's a nice biased sig you got there. "Massacred every man, woman and child in Theramore"... except the part where the civilians escaped Theramore. Espousing a character's quote who is plain lying through her teeth to promote propaganda.
    Massacred every man, woman and child in Theramore...except those who escaped. Not everyone got out. Men, women and children did die.

    And last I checked, by that stage in the game, it was actually a key plot element that humans could turn into Worgen. Was that somehow missed in your playthrough? That wasn't a Deus Ex Machina...that was a Chekovs Gun being fired. In Andorhal, the Val'kyr came out of nowhere with no setup.

    EJL

  4. #704
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    I invite everyone to see the interview jessy cox did with one of the lore dudes behind wow.. When questioned about the QQ some ally players were doing about their fist pumping moment and the dude was desperate.. He was like "What more do you possibly want?"

    The horde have lost in every front in MoP.. We get our city destroyed and sieged by aliance forces.. We lose our elite krokron force and we will have a LOT of civilian casualties.. On the other hand you have the aliance all united under a strong leader beloved by all.. With other strong faction leaders and that at the end of this all will return home victorious..

    And still u see ally fanboys QQing about theramore and how they need more compensation.. Lol.. Just make a petition to erase the horde.. And even so there would be outcries because only the horde would get the expirience of being destroyed and the forums would be filled with QQ blizz obvious horde fanboys..

  5. #705
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Massacred every man, woman and child in Theramore...except those who escaped. Not everyone got out. Men, women and children did die.
    Nope. She's completely lying. Everyone who stayed, stayed to fight. That makes them combatants.

    Shortly after the arrival of the 7th fleet, Jaina had insisted that one ship, the Starsword, be dispatched to bear the civilians of the city who wished to leave to safety. All of the children went aboard, and many of their families. Others chose to stay. It was their home; they loved it as Jaina did and wanted to defend it.
    --Tides of War

    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    And last I checked, by that stage in the game, it was actually a key plot element that humans could turn into Worgen. Was that somehow missed in your playthrough? That wasn't a Deus Ex Machina...that was a Chekovs Gun being fired. In Andorhal, the Val'kyr came out of nowhere with no setup.
    Sylvanas already had Val'kyr long before Andorhal.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-08-30 at 05:50 PM.

  6. #706
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Nope. She's completely lying. Everyone who stayed, stayed to fight. That makes them combatants.
    Even the children? Because looking at the graveyard outside, children did die. It would, after all, be impossible for a single ship to carry out everyone who wanted to go. Theramore was a fairly large city.

    Sylvanas already had Val'kyr long before Andorhal.
    And the Alliance player running through his campiagn met them where? Had news of them from what point onwards?

    EJL

  7. #707
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Even the children? Because looking at the graveyard outside, children did die. It would, after all, be impossible for a single ship to carry out everyone who wanted to go. Theramore was a fairly large city.
    "All the children went aboard."
    --Tides of War

    Also says anyone who wished to leave. Says nothing about space restrictions.

  8. #708
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Doesn't change the fact that 90% of the players telling the Alliance to shut upo, quit whining, be happy and they should indeed be jumping up in the air in joy at having to kill the Warchief would be complaining at least as much as Alliance players if the situations were reversed.

    And as Alliance players do now, they'd have a point.

    EJL
    I'd argue it's worse for Horde. We're having to kill our leader and side with pacifists, even if we don't want to.

  9. #709
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarry View Post
    I invite everyone to see the interview jessy cox did with one of the lore dudes behind wow.. When questioned about the QQ some ally players were doing about their fist pumping moment and the dude was desperate.. He was like "What more do you possibly want?"
    Largely - a sensible story that doesn't treat them as an after thought but actually progresses the Alliances goals, porgresses their story anbd enhances their lore and characterisation while remaining true to the established characters, and develops the faction instead of showing them as tagalongs with nothing to do in the game that doesn't involve following after the Horde.

    Victory or defeat is only a side effect; it is possible to give the Alliance a good story even if they lose. But MoP showed the Alliance doing nothing to progress their own goals; they only acted to stop the Hordes and the one event the Alliance got that could have showed them being proactive, that would have showed them taking the initiative - their invasion - got sidetracked into what effectively felt like being shoehorned into the Horde story. Because the Alliance iinvasion plan was never developed as a story, the entire setup comes over as "Helping the Horde fulfil their goals" and the news the Alliance apparently leave with nothing only reinforces that. Worse, for those read the book, it comes over as "Well, this plan was an utter disaster last time. Which means he won't be expecting us to try it again!!!!"

    Varian is not a Lord Rust.

    Add in the sheer lack of quality of the Alliance quests and it all adds up. Even Theramore - Blizzards starting to see THAT as a mistake. And it was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    I'd argue it's worse for Horde. We're having to kill our leader and side with pacifists, even if we don't want to.
    A leader who has rejected us and who we have rejected. Did I feel bad at killingRend?

    JL
    Last edited by Talen; 2013-08-30 at 05:55 PM.

  10. #710
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    A leader who has rejected us and who we have rejected.
    Garrosh only rejects people who oppose him. If a PC would rather follow Garrosh, the game is forcing that rejection to take place.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    And the Alliance player running through his campiagn met them where? Had news of them from what point onwards?
    I don't recall becoming worgen as an immunity to Forsakeness being brought up before the quest where they use it and force Horde to retreat. It's not even demonstrated that Val'kyr can only raise humans until a quest 6 lvls later.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-08-30 at 06:00 PM.

  11. #711
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    snip
    I guess we're ignoring the next quests. Good to know we can take stuff out of context.

    What a joke.

  12. #712
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    Interesting.

    I'd forgotten this. In game proof that the Forsaken are dominated and mind controlled.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    I don't recall becoming worgen as an immunity to Forsakeness being brought up before the quest where they use it and force Horde to retreat. It's not even demonstrated that Val'kyr can only raise humans until a quest 6 lvls later.
    What does that have to do with it? The humans became Worgen theme was established before. It wasn't the immunity which forced the Forsaken back - it was the Worgen.

    EJL

  13. #713
    Everyone has a right to be angry with this atrocity.

    We essentially did nothing on that continent except stir shit which wouldn't have been stirred if we didn't go there.

    Then we gave a guy power which we wouldn't have given him if we didn't go there.

    This whole expansion is an end justifies the means expansion.

    If pandaria wasn't implemented into Warcraft lore, as it shouldn't have been, this expansion's non-existence would have changed absolutely nothing in Warcraft lore - and Garrosh's overthrow would have happened sooner or later considering his courses of action.

    We did NOTHING there, it was like watching the first Gulf War in World of Warcraft.
    Last edited by KungFuFanta; 2013-08-30 at 10:09 PM.

  14. #714
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    I guess we're ignoring the next quests. Good to know we can take stuff out of context.

    What a joke.
    You mean the next quests where Forsaken are on the defensive because tons of Worgen start pouring out of Fenris Keep? At least when the Alliance lost at Andorhal, the Forsaken didn't pour out of the town towards other Alliance bases. The dude at Chillwind Camp says it might get attacked next since they lost Andorhal... but that attack never happens.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-08-31 at 01:37 AM.

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