Why do players hate Garrosh but like Sylvanas?

[Simulacrum]

The developers have put time and effort into showing people that Garrosh is the bad guy. Those who keep trying to convince themselves that this is all bunk or something never intended, try and actually listen to what the devs are saying. They intended for Garrosh to be this way, they built him up to become the bad guy, they even put him in the same category as Arthas, who followed the same self destructive path as Garrosh, which is even quoted in some of the novels.

That he kills pandaren and ruins their shitty island paradise of crazy reclusive stagnant dogmatists doesn't make him a bad guy in my book. It makes him a good guy. If the horde voted for leaders, and he ran on the platform that he promised to impale all the pandaren he could find ON THE SPIRES OF ORGRIMMAR (!!!), I'd vote for him, and I'd tell all my friends to vote for him too! If he also promised to personally kill all the non-horde orphans he could find, by strangling them to death with his own bare hands, I would've lobbied for him!

What they're doing to really make him into a retarded caricature is make him an obvious, blatant racist who hates every non-orc irrationally and excludes everyone from his TRUE HORDE based essentially on them not being orcs. If you had taken the 5.4 launch trailer and replaced all his "I"s with "we"s, and made him talk about the "HORDE" instead of the "TRUE HORDE", and made his goal slightly less absurd (ie. made him have one), he'd be an awesome leader for the horde. But they just made him hate the horde and decide to attack it because uh he's a bad guy I guess, even though it makes absolutely no sense for him to be doing any of the things that he's doing. And now his plan is to sit in orgrimmar while the armies of the world come to kill him? Because he's so full of hatred? Yeah... that makes sense.

If he was just *slightly* less of a rampaging lunatic he'd be a perfect horde leader.

Of course, they had to make him into this super-moron, because otherwise people would like him too much for all the things he's doing. It's so lacking in subtlety it's not even funny.

[Deleted]

Well blizzard had to come up some plot quickly, while in warcraft-series they had long time to polish the plot. All wow-game lore is like that.

[Trassk]

That he kills pandaren and ruins their shitty island paradise of crazy reclusive stagnant dogmatists doesn't make him a bad guy in my book.

Well then I guess your books never going to be satisfied, since you can't tell who the bad guy is even when he's in front of you.

All I read in these argument are 'I like him because he's a bad guy'.. which, okay, you like him because he's a bad guy.. he's still the bad guy though, and trying to convince yourselves he's not is where denial sets him.

Of course, they had to make him into this super-moron, because otherwise people would like him too much for all the things he's doing. It's so lacking in subtlety it's not even funny.

whats not funny, and has never been funny, is how ridiculous people have been to these proceedings. Garrosh followed a dark path, and became the bad guy. This isn't an uncommon thing in the warcraft universe, its happened to several characters. Infact the developers have Arthas referenced in this current event, like in tides of war, as comparison to someone who started off 'sort of good', did some bad shit and became the bad guy.

This whole 'its retarded because its not what i thought would happen' is just beyond ridiculous now. The sort of people that can't keep up with the story and yet claim they know it better then those that do always end up having the worst understanding of character development.

[Deleted]

Garrosh has been built up over several expansions from a smaller character to the final raid boss of an expansion. Arthas was cool, but people already knew a lot about him because he was from Warcraft III. For the final raid boss, the developers want players to really want to kill him. This requires players to know what he has done in the past and why you are here killing him. The team has worked hard to explain over the past few patches what Garrosh is doing to Pandaria, why it is so bad, and what his plans are for the Horde.

Quote from the interviews currently on the MMO frontpage. Sort of explains why.

[BatteredRose]

I always liked her character and development, starting back in WC3.

However, comparing the two is apples to oranges. Sylvanas has indeed been up to some less than savory acts, but nowhere near on the scale as Garrosh. If you can't see their differences then I feel bad for you.

[Deleted]

Because most WoW players are males and Sylvanas is a female.

[Deleted]

Real character development came from the RTS series, anything after they seem to adopt the attitude of 'game before lore' now.

Whilst i understand what you think, i think the problem with WoW is that character development happens too slow. A patch comes out every 3/4 months, and can only tell so much story since so much development has to be spent on actual playable content (as opposed to non-playable). Wc3 RoC and TFT were full steam ahead with the story telling - you already had the units, buildings, the heroes and characters - all you needed was to make a map, do the triggers and voila, a mission where you and the characters are seamlessly engaged. WoW is very different to that (for very obvious reasons).

[Gelannerai]

Yes, I did.
She reacts heavily emotional when they ask her why she doesn't stay with her Forsaken.
Then she reacts emotionally when she sees what Garrosh will do to her Forsaken.

"She cared nothing for their fate."

"Let them perish," Sylvanas cried. "I am finished with them!"

Emotional? Sure. Problem is, having an emotional response to something doesn't automatically mean you harbor positive feelings towards it. These quotes seem to indicate that Sylvanas didn't care what happened to the people she ostensibly "cared for." Now, after experiencing the horrors of her afterlife, the only reason she cares about the Forsaken is because they stand between her and Hell. The idea that she bears any sort of altruistic notion where they are concerned is absurd.

[Jce]

I hate her big time. Just as I hate the Forsaken.

To think that people actually support the idea that the Forsaken have a right to own and be in Lordaeron baffles me. No they don't. They died and were raised as the Scourge and now they think that because they got their sanity back that they are forgiven? No. Their time is over. How about they take their bags and /shoo somewhere on an empty island?

And Sylvanas being hot? ANY Night Elf and Draenei surpasses the Blood Elves in hotness and gracious beauty, especially an undead Blood Elf.

And no I'm not talking about ingame models...

I say this in a VERY hypothetical sense, so please don't infract me.

Say someone was holding a gun to your head(the lich king) and forced you to kill the ones you loved, but then he was taken out after you committed the act. You're saying that your family and friends that you didn't kill should NOT forgive you for being forced to murder their loved ones? Another thing I have to say is that the Forsaken as mostly the dead of Lordaeron anyway, so it's only natural the city belongs to them.

[Sierra85]

Say someone was holding a gun to your head(the lich king) and forced you to kill the ones you loved, but then he was taken out after you committed the act. You're saying that your family and friends that you didn't kill should NOT forgive you for being forced to murder their loved ones?

this is messed up

[Jce]

this is messed up

Uh-huh, and it's almost exactly what happens in game. The only difference is they're already dead.

[Noorri]

Garrosh has been built up over several expansions from a smaller character to the final raid boss of an expansion. Arthas was cool, but people already knew a lot about him because he was from Warcraft III. For the final raid boss, the developers want players to really want to kill him. This requires players to know what he has done in the past and why you are here killing him. The team has worked hard to explain over the past few patches what Garrosh is doing to Pandaria, why it is so bad, and what his plans are for the Horde.

This really is a terrible excuse for what they have done with him. The Alliance is largely left out of his development for one thing. Another thing is that to me it seems like he just suddenly goes Stupid Evil. He quickly abandons everything when he gets in trouble and just goes batshit insane and immediatly does things that turns the entire world against himself creating an unwinnable situation for himself. He's a chaotic evil maniac moron and quite frankly no character like that can be interesting ever.

Sylvanas is much more subtle in her approach to beeing evil, and I would say that she walks something of a middle road between several kinds of evil tropes. While I don't know if I like her character that much after Warcraft 3, my interest in her character is infinitely higher then my interest in Garrosh is.

[dragnipur]

Because i like hot,sexy evil chicks
Also i don't hate Garrosh.I love such characters like him

[Gelannerai]

Don't pick out single sentences. She's emotional like that the entire part of the story.
An emotional reaction might not automatically mean she has feelings, but neither does 'crying that you don't care' mean that she doesn't have feelings.

But it kind of does in the context of the story. She abandoned them to commit suicide. She went into the afterlife not knowing that the Valkyr could pull a magical res out of their backsides. Sylvanas completely washed her hands of the Forsaken in that moment, despite the fact that so many of them look upon her as some sort of divine savior. And again, I'm not saying she doesn't have feelings. What I'm saying is that she doesn't feel she has any obligation towards her people past using them as a safety-net to keep from going back to the void.

[lostdrewid]

I hate them both as well as several others, but the answer why *others* don't hate her -- aside from the stupid male answer -- is right there in your OP. Sylvannas is subtle, crafty, willing to be a Chessmaster. She's much more terrifying and there *will* be a reckoning with her some day. But Garrosh? He's not a Chessmaster, he took one look at the board and swung his axe through it. Sylvannas in charge of the Horde could actually lead us to victory... a dark, unwanted victory, but victory nonetheless. Garrosh is a terrible Warchief on every level, unable to handle strategy or tactics. Personal combat is the only arena in which he excels, and frankly the Horde deserves better.

[Deleted]

Sylvanas gets extra points for being honest about her own douche-baggery.

[Deleted]

The only difference I can really see is style. Garrosh is loud, stompy, and angry. Not very subtle. Sylvanas is cruel and cold, but more quiet, subtle and calm.

This is exactly one of the primary reasons for me.

I don't necessarily dislike Garrosh's course...but he evolved into a loud, annoying, simple-minded "ME SMASH!"-brute.
Sylvanas' approach to reach her goals is just so much more elegant. I mean...she even uses Val'kyrs.

[Iwinbutton]

Sex sells you see it in advertising everywhere whether its pixels or not she is far more pleasing then him.

[Grand Crusader Absalom]

Because boobs.

[Rasstapp]

I think the obvious answer is this: He has no nipples.