No buffs coming to hunters - official post

[Cobaltius]

Fuckers. That's how they have been handling hunter class since like vanilla?

Basically they were near the pinnacle of perfection in vanilla then Ghostcrawler got hired, completely dismantled them, tried to rebuild them in his own inane vision of what he thought the class should be like and has been trying to fix the mess he made ever since.

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great players learn to adapt and do great dps no matter what, bad players whine no matter what

That is like saying only bad drivers get hit by drunk drivers because great drivers learn to avoid them, when it has absolutely nothing to do with their driving skills and everything to do with the drunk driver.

The point is players should not have to adapt!

[Funky303]

Pinnacle of Perfection in Vanilla was: Hunter AFK autoshot, still beeing nr. 1 DPS ^^.

Another thing:

How many top 50 Guild players are in here. And how many will be/have been benched?

When I check my servers Guilds who killed at least 10/13 HC, all of them had a hunter in their raid.

So (as a lolret myself with a hunter twink) I know the hard fact that numbers for hunters are subpar (near the bottom of the pack, see http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/ for 25HC parses, or here http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Scor...14/60/default/ 10HC parses), but please tell me when you were benched because of DPS or whatever.

My raidlead knows about my bad DPS (compared to our Rogue, WL and Boomkin), but takes me because I rarely wipe the raid by standing in the raidnuke fire. We still killed 6/12HC, although beeing a non hardcore raiding guild.

[fiestatastic]

Ok, hunters as a class weren't op. BM was OP in pvp. they changed bm to be less powerful in pvp, now what they need to do is buff hunter damage in PVE and make MM/sv more viable in pvp, like most hunters, and other class communites, want.

MM is the best spec for pvp right now and has been since the begin of MoP .... it just takes skill to play it. BM is faceroll wins for bad hunters, but isn't capable of doing 75% of the damage a good MM hunter can do in pvp. BM is op in pvp because a 6 year old who dies while questing to normal mobs in dread wastes (i.e. needs work) can pretty easily still get arena wins (tried and tested by my nephew).

Hunters definitely don't need more faceroll buffs. What hunters need buffed to make them competitive with top parse dps is what you need to take advantage of to get top parse dps, and that's snapshotting. Middle range hunter dps already blows away the competition, which is why you see so many middle of the pack parses for hunters. It's VERY easy for anyone and everyone to do really good dps as a hunter .... but it's impossible for a great hunter to do top parse great dps, simply because it lacks snapshotting. Possibly could be solved by reducing the focus cost of serpent sting and making it a snapshotable dot.

But then hunters would be totally op and you'd have to reduce some of the other basics like arcane shot, etc .... so I think you'd find more than 100x as many hunters complaining that they are doing worse dps because they don't know how to actually play, despite having top end parses from really good hunters.

I think they are better off as is, being a super easy class for anyone to play and do really good damage.

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Pinnacle of Perfection in Vanilla was: Hunter AFK autoshot, still beeing nr. 1 DPS ^^.

Another thing:

How many top 50 Guild players are in here. And how many will be/have been benched?

When I check my servers Guilds who killed at least 10/13 HC, all of them had a hunter in their raid.

So (as a lolret myself with a hunter twink) I know the hard fact that numbers for hunters are subpar (near the bottom of the pack, see http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/ for 25HC parses, or here http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Scor...14/60/default/ 10HC parses), but please tell me when you were benched because of DPS or whatever.

My raidlead knows about my bad DPS (compared to our Rogue, WL and Boomkin), but takes me because I rarely wipe the raid by standing in the raidnuke fire. We still killed 6/12HC, although beeing a non hardcore raiding guild.

Hunters won't get benched .... they do consistently good dps, and can fill in any missing buff. It's not #1 .. but is consistent. If a warlock gets UVLS procs they are top, if they don't their dps is complete crap possibly last. It's not as consistent and is highly proc dependent. Same goes for fire mages. They are topping logs when things go their way, but that isn't every pull.

[aHeeRo]

Didn't he stop long before this patch ?

I was expecting him to talk about "hunter problems" in that vid... but no it's completely irrelevant to the topic. He just gives the same old "wow lost it's excitement", "wow is just repeating the same old formula", speech of a thousand threads on MMO champion. Nothing specific to hunters.

He Doesn't play wow anymore. And i dont remember atm but i wanna say like 3-5 minutes in he Says Mage/Lock Buffs Hunter Nerfs. I just thought it was funny that he stopped playing and knows we always get fucked still.

[Bullettime]

Pinnacle of Perfection in Vanilla was: Hunter AFK autoshot, still beeing nr. 1 DPS ^^.

Another thing:

How many top 50 Guild players are in here. And how many will be/have been benched?

When I check my servers Guilds who killed at least 10/13 HC, all of them had a hunter in their raid.

So (as a lolret myself with a hunter twink) I know the hard fact that numbers for hunters are subpar (near the bottom of the pack, see http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/ for 25HC parses, or here http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Scor...14/60/default/ 10HC parses), but please tell me when you were benched because of DPS or whatever.

My raidlead knows about my bad DPS (compared to our Rogue, WL and Boomkin), but takes me because I rarely wipe the raid by standing in the raidnuke fire. We still killed 6/12HC, although beeing a non hardcore raiding guild.

Hunters will have a spot as long as they're the best recipient for Agility mail and the only users of ranged weapons. Enhancement is generally less desirable as a melee DPS and it's better to have a geared Hunter in your raid than a 4th or 5th, and thus undergeared, Mage or Warlock. We're a lot like Holy Paladins in that the raid will always have a single spot for us just due to our niche gear type. But guilds basically are not recruiting Hunters at all. They have their one and MAYBE a second or on the bench and stack the raid with higher performing classes who bring more utility. Hunter DPS may not be absolute atrocious but if you're building a raid team, you have a Hunter to soak ranged weapons and mail then have a choice between say a Hunter or Shadow Priest to fill a DPS slot. Any decent raid guild is going to take that Shadow Priest over a Hunter who can put up the same numbers and bring Hymn and Vamp Embrace.

Mages are in a similar spot with their utility but at least they bring god tier damage. We bring less DPS than the raw damage dealing specs/classes and bring no useful raid tools aside from a pet buff which isn't needed in a 25m and not a guarantee to be needed even in a 10m. The one unique thing we had, AoE sunder, is being given to Rogues next patch.

[Tehterokkar]

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If your going to call a taunt utility than hunters have one too. They are pretty much in your position. They have no utility that benefits the whole raid (Timewarp Skull banner Boomkin tranq..etc) Feral tranq isn't utility unless you want a 2k heal per tick from me.

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Feral Druids :3 what? Also yes you all should be doing the same amount of damage as mages warlocks and rogues. Also don
t hunters have less utility than mages and less dps?

Hunters do not have a taunt that works on Boss level monsters. Also Hunters don't have an actual taunt, it's a Fixate, pets have taunt(and even that doesn't work on bosses ) and pets will get 1 shot by any boss.

If the Feral tranq is really needed say for like a very healing intensive fight such as Magaera HC, they will spec for HoTW which makes it Resto equivalent.

[Valkors]

The real question is this: If given the option between having more raid utility, or higher dps, what would the hunter community choose. Unfortunately, that is always in debate. That is why the designers have to walk on egg shells. Unfortunately, that pussyfooting around is hurting the hunter community more.

[Bullettime]

The real question is this: If given the option between having more raid utility, or higher dps, what would the hunter community choose. Unfortunately, that is always in debate. That is why the designers have to walk on egg shells. Unfortunately, that pussyfooting around is hurting the hunter community more.

Raid utility is ideal but they aren't going to suddenly give us a new spell in the last patch. So we at least need damage to compensate.

Blizzard has shown no interest in doing either, likely due to PvP complaints.

[Pengalor]

Raid utility is ideal but they aren't going to suddenly give us a new spell in the last patch. So we at least need damage to compensate.

Blizzard has shown no interest in doing either, likely due to PvP complaints.

Indeed. They make things worse for us when, instead of trying to see a point we might have (take raid utility for example) they dismiss it and say that we are clearly fine. We have two problems and we need one of two solutions. Instead we're getting jerked around with plenty of "we know there's a problem, we're working on it" instead of actions that show they are working on it.

[Perrito]

Pinnacle of Perfection in Vanilla was: Hunter AFK autoshot, still beeing nr. 1 DPS ^^.

Another thing:

How many top 50 Guild players are in here. And how many will be/have been benched?

When I check my servers Guilds who killed at least 10/13 HC, all of them had a hunter in their raid.

So (as a lolret myself with a hunter twink) I know the hard fact that numbers for hunters are subpar (near the bottom of the pack, see http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/ for 25HC parses, or here http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Scor...14/60/default/ 10HC parses), but please tell me when you were benched because of DPS or whatever.

My raidlead knows about my bad DPS (compared to our Rogue, WL and Boomkin), but takes me because I rarely wipe the raid by standing in the raidnuke fire. We still killed 6/12HC, although beeing a non hardcore raiding guild.

did you even look at those 2 links you provided?

hunters are beating couple of melee specs that we dont play, in both are botton mid of the pack. so tell me why would you want a hunter over any other range class, saying you can pick and recruit any class?

lets not talk about numbers just the fact that every range bring more dps, more utility than a hunter. why would you pick a hunter.

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Hunters do not have a taunt that works on Boss level monsters. Also Hunters don't have an actual taunt, it's a Fixate, pets have taunt(and even that doesn't work on bosses ) and pets will get 1 shot by any boss.

If the Feral tranq is really needed say for like a very healing intensive fight such as Magaera HC, they will spec for HoTW which makes it Resto equivalent.

HOTW tranq still do a lot of healing, if a feral druid come here saying his tranq is worth nothing is because they dont know what they are talking about.

[Wildtree]

Pinnacle of Perfection in Vanilla was: Hunter AFK autoshot, still beeing nr. 1 DPS ^^.

Not just Vanilla....
I've done a Gruul's raid on my hunter in TBC. For some reason my screen locked up right after the initial pull.
I was solid frozen for the entire fight, until the boss was dead.. I couldn't believe how I ended up as the #1 dps on the fight.

Generally on the topic itself... I don't have too much to say to the no buff situation. But I am one of those players who plays a class not because they are in the tops of the meters. I play them because I have fun with how a class feels from solo content to raid content. On the same token I do believe that the tendency of playing the game for the sheer reason of number output is one of the most destructive tendencies the game itself goes through.

But that's just me..

[Bullettime]

Not just Vanilla....
I've done a Gruul's raid on my hunter in TBC. For some reason my screen locked up right after the initial pull.
I was solid frozen for the entire fight, until the boss was dead.. I couldn't believe how I ended up as the #1 dps on the fight.

Generally on the topic itself... I don't have too much to say to the no buff situation. But I am one of those players who plays a class not because they are in the tops of the meters. I play them because I have fun with how a class feels from solo content to raid content. On the same token I do believe that the tendency of playing the game for the sheer reason of number output is one of the most destructive tendencies the game itself goes through.

But that's just me..

Do you have any heroic raid progression? Because that's where a lot of the issues lie. The problem with our damage and lack of utility doesn't affect people who solo and do LFR as that's entirely a skill deal, but when you step into actual heroic raiding with other skilled players, the faults of the class become pretty apparent. Other DPS are going to do more damage than you and bring more utility to their raid, meaning guilds are less likely to bring us. We have one guaranteed spot due to our niche loot type but that's about the extent of us being desirable.

Go ahead and keep enjoying solo content but with guilds having very little interest in more than one Hunter in their lineup, others who enjoy their Hunter have to play other things to maintain a raid spot because Blizzard is afraid to buff us because of PvP whining.

[Himora]

The real question is this: If given the option between having more raid utility, or higher dps, what would the hunter community choose. Unfortunately, that is always in debate. That is why the designers have to walk on egg shells. Unfortunately, that pussyfooting around is hurting the hunter community more.

Both... mages can have both.

[Kissthebaby]

Both... mages can have both.

mages have no raid utility either, just ALWAYS good dps

[Chippendale]

I do believe that the tendency of playing the game for the sheer reason of number output is one of the most destructive tendencies the game itself goes through.

But that's just me..

That's not at all what's happening. It's becoming harder and harder to get and maintain a raid spot as we come up on a new tier simply because we don't have the damage or utility that other classes have.
It's not about wanting to be on top. It's about wanting to be useful enough to Raid Leaders to not be asked to reroll or, in the case of high end guilds, get sat.
It's not about wanting to be a stupidly high DPS and lol at the meters.
It's about wanting to raid.
Most of us posting on this thread have a strong desire to raid because that's the aspect of the game we enjoy the most.
When we're getting sat due to a design and balancing issue, and we can no longer do what we enjoy most due to Blizzard not fixing problems causing us to lose spots, THAT'S a problem.

[clevin]

mages have no raid utility either, just ALWAYS good dps

Time Warp isn't raid utility?

[Tehterokkar]

Time Warp isn't raid utility?

Nope... Bringing 5 mages just for BL isn't the idea, the idea is that they do the best DPS in the raid.

[clevin]

Nope... Bringing 5 mages just for BL isn't the idea, the idea is that they do the best DPS in the raid.

Oh... yeah, past one, it's not. But that first one *does* bring it in any spec they want to play *and* they bring high DPS. We.... dont'. Sigh. Oh well.

[Deleted]

Oh... yeah, past one, it's not. But that first one *does* bring it in any spec they want to play *and* they bring high DPS. We.... dont'. Sigh. Oh well.

By that logic we got Ancient Hysteria....

[Buttercheese]

How many top 50 Guild players are in here. And how many will be/have been benched?

When I check my servers Guilds who killed at least 10/13 HC, all of them had a hunter in their raid.

I'm not in a top 50 guild, not even close, but you can look up what most of the top guilds had as their comp on their progression kills.

This is how many hunters per fight were used on heroic progression kills by top 10 guilds according to wowprogress.

Method 1.7
Blood legion 1.1
Экзорсус 1.5
Midwinter 1.4
Exodus .6
Envy 2.5
Genuine 1.5
ScrubBusters .9
Apex .8
Wraith 1.1

Remember, these are 25 mans, where if classes were balanced there would be 2.3 of each class since there are 11 classes. There was an average of 1.3 hunter per kill across those 10 raid groups.

So yes, they all brought a hunter, for gear soaking, while the other hunter spot went to other classes that brought more to the raid.

That is the problem that hunters see, when it comes down to the nitty gritty, they are (given what they bring) rightfully passed over for other classes. While this may not be as bad at lower levels of progression, people still do not want to feel like their class choice is a hindrance to their guilds progression