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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkm View Post
    More chance for gear drops i dont see the problem
    The more the better right?
    I love it.

  2. #182
    Is there really anyone here who hasn't yet realized that the concept "raiding" as it has existed since Everquest is a sickly, dying, obsolete dinosaur these days? Even in its absolute prime, the overwhelming majority of players never went near it. Since then Blizzard has bastardized it into LFR in order to put it in front of more eyes, justify the cost of developing the content, and spare them having to make a bunch of catch-up five-mans throughout an expansion, but it's still just a watered-down version of some shit left over from EverQuest that only a vanishingly small percentage of the playerbase gives any real damn about. "Back in the old days people aspired to be like the hardcore and looked in awe at epics that were still epic!" is just poopsock revisionist history nonsense. Back in the day most people were fucking off farming or something and didn't give a shit about you.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Hayro1 View Post
    Sigh, nobody will get anywhere with your thought process. You are going to argue just for the sake of arguing, and of course gear can't trump doing mechanics (actually in some cases it lets you bypass them completely,) but again, please read this time, OP items can, do, and WILL help progression guilds. Even LFR. Am I saying every single guild out there will be doing everything? no, of course not.
    How about you do a little reading? Specifically what Blizzard has stated about the role of mechanics especially in terms of Mop raiding and how gear isn't going to get you past them. I'm sorry you don't like it but it is what Blizzard has said and those who actually do progression content have yet to contradict them. In all honestly it is the height of arrogance to claim someone isn't reading your posts simply because they disagree. I read just fine thank you very much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayro1 View Post
    They play the game the way they want, just as you and others do. I myself and others have came up with solutions that prevent Flex being a tool for normal/Heroic, and won't hurt anyone else other than lootgoblins, but it seems to have fallen on (not technically) deaf ears. My 502 trinket was a ~1800-1900 DPS upgrade over my 530 VP trinket, ~2800 after VP upgrades. 1800 for 28 ilvl's, 2800 for 20. Sometimes trinkets are just ridiculous. And SoO's trinkets are even more powerful than current ones, well maybe not the Lei Shen one for Locks, I'm not too sure on their trinkets/etc.
    At the end of the day the hardcore will do what they need to do to clear the content. Sadly I have seen very very few of them on these forums spending significant amounts of time bitching and whining endlessly about it. They go do what they need to do, get it done, call it a day and wait until there is new content. Everyone else who is whining are just wannabe hardcores who will never ever raid on the same level as the actual hardcore so all that is left for them is going through the motions and playing pretend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    Hardcore guilds were clearing Normal in Blues, and Heroic bosses before LFR was even open. If you aren´t hardcore, then stop pretending to be. There is no reason to do those extra LFRs and crap unless you want to. You want to eliminate the ability to do LFR simply because you do not want to do it.. then DO NOT DO IT.. but don´t take away that option for players that want to be hardcore.
    Exactly this. Current content is always tuned around the gear appropriate for that content. They are NOT tuning heroic raids around LFR gear OR flex gear so really those of you whining, just give it a fucking rest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yizu View Post
    Im pretty sure 4 modes is not permanent. They are adding flex this tier as a separate mode to test it. They are prolly gonna remove lfr or implement flex on normal modes when they remove it.
    No they are NOT. Blizzard has never ever said any such thing. Mods seriously need to start cracking down on this crap. I'm nearly certain there is a quote on the very front page of the site or on the next page from a Blizzard dev stating the complete opposite of what you said. STOP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nato View Post
    I think flex is pretty close to LFR. I reckon get rid of LFR and have flex
    LFR is NOT going away and Blizzard has said this repeatedly ever since 4.3.

    Get. The. Fuck. Over. It.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eiffeltower View Post
    And if you want to grind easy content forever, you can also go play Dora the Explorer Adventure Island (dont try the heroic mode questions, they are pretty hard). Now the girly arguments are over with, perhaps we can talk again ? :P

    Once again, you are ignoring the fact that most people hate levelling (changes were even made to that extent).
    If levelling is your thing, then by all means do it, you have loads of char slots and servers. But don't then come and tell the player base that content you dont play needs to be removed so you can have another levelling zone ...
    Leveling in rpgs is a core mechanic and it isn't going away and those who hate it to the extent where they want instant lvl capped characters need to understand this isn't the game or genre for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by artem123 View Post
    erhm, you could still run LFR before they fully cleared heroics.
    running LFR does not mean hardcore. But stuff being there that gives a extra little oomf people are going to take it. And quite needed to if you want to compete.
    Again I seriously doubt a couple pieces of LFR gear is why the hardcore top guilds cleared heroic modes. They cleared the content because of knowledge and skill and play on a level none of you wannabe hardcores can even begin to comprehend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by queberts View Post
    A guild leader that tells you NOT to upgrade your gear to better the raid, wow posts on these forums keep blowing my mind.
    When it is a waste of time for minimal benefit? That is what makes a guild leader good not bad. They shouldn't be trying to force members to do things that don't really accomplish much if anything. Again if you are using LFR gear to do heroic modes you are either doing it very very wrong or being carried. You don't need it to clear harder content. Sorry but that's the truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eiffeltower View Post
    When people hate something (like this crowd hates normal) and expresses it, blizzard changes stuff to acomodate this ( for example, nerfing normals to the ground)
    Did you miss the 30% buff to xp, the changes in valour and rep destined for alts ? They were implemented because people complained about the levelling process, and were not accessing end game on multiple chars.
    Who hates normal? Outside of a few extremely biased people who have made no qualms about wanting raiding out of the game entirely I haven't seen any actual hate for any mode other than this irrational hated of flex/LFR. Yes some players have expressed some issues their guild groups have with normal modes but guess what they did rather than campaign for the removal of a raid mode? They asked for a NEW mode and asked for ZERO changes to the mode they didn't like. Many of the people on these forums need to learn from that mentality. Things don't need to be taken from others in order for you to enjoy the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Yep, pretty much.

    For some reaosn blizzard have done absolutely everything possible to keep hardcore raiding going, in the face of an obviously indifferent playerbase.
    Or how about this? Now stay with me here because this is going to get complicated...Blizzard designs for as many different play styles as possible in order to make the game appealing to as wide an audience as possible If people weren't doing the content, they wouldn't be designing it. It's just that simple. They don't need every single subscriber doing a certain piece of content in order to justify devlopment time for it. It just doesn't work that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aljung View Post
    If find lfr ruins the adventuring and exploring aspect of raiding.
    Nope. The prevalence of fansites such s this and Wowhead and youtube and raid guides is what "ruins" the adventuring and exploring aspect of raiding. Although really what was there to ever explore? I would say after 9 years most players are well aware of what raids are like and the "thrill" of entering a new raid isn't nearly the same as it was the first time. This is a result of time and experience not design philosophy and certainly not because people you don't even know or play with are doing an easier version of a raid.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by mistahwilshire View Post
    Never understood why people complain about more options. Whatever.
    you say its more options, I say its less options.
    Free-To-Play is the future.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Watching a youtube video explaining it all or having umpteenth number of mods scream at you to move. Exploration is DEAD period. How can you explore when everything is available to you at the click of a video?
    By not clicking that video? By not reading that guide? By not joining a guild that forces you to play in a way you don't enjoy? By taking some fucking personal accountability for yourself for once? Players seriously need to give the blame game a rest. If YOU aren't having fun with the game anymore, only YOU can resolve that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by artem123 View Post
    They didnt 'need' them. And you armoried ONE PERSON out of a roster of im assuming 30+ people.
    And shrug, guild didnt force me. But depending on the trinkets and whatnot its pretty helpful.
    And I among many others armoried entire guilds of players doing heroic modes at the start of Mop and found not one single one of them was relying on ANY of the gear that the whiny brats were continually throwing temper tantrums over claiming it was "needed" to do normal modes.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    Because the playerbase is very diverse. That's why.
    This.

    LFR -> Flex -> Normal -> Heroic: Why?
    Because everyone will allways be at a different level, I like the fact that blizzard is trying to carter to 100% of players instead of 1%.
    Remember, A Man may break a Woman's Heart - But a Woman will destroy a Man's life. - SJK @ the #Antiwokenessworld

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimble View Post
    Is there really anyone here who hasn't yet realized that the concept "raiding" as it has existed since Everquest is a sickly, dying, obsolete dinosaur these days? Even in its absolute prime, the overwhelming majority of players never went near it. Since then Blizzard has bastardized it into LFR in order to put it in front of more eyes, justify the cost of developing the content, and spare them having to make a bunch of catch-up five-mans throughout an expansion, but it's still just a watered-down version of some shit left over from EverQuest that only a vanishingly small percentage of the playerbase gives any real damn about. "Back in the old days people aspired to be like the hardcore and looked in awe at epics that were still epic!" is just poopsock revisionist history nonsense. Back in the day most people were fucking off farming or something and didn't give a shit about you.
    What is with all the low count posters suddenly slamming raiding? I'm starting to think it is one certain poster continuing to push his mindless agenda to get raiding eliminated entirely or at least gain more supporters for his "cause".

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    ;
    Quote Originally Posted by Trakanonn View Post
    you say its more options, I say its less options.
    An extra mode of raiding is "less options"? How so? Seriously? How can someone say such a stupid thing?

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Trakanonn View Post
    you say its more options, I say its less options.
    So 4 options is less than 3 options?

    Great logic.

  9. #189
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    IMO Flex shouldn't be its own item level bracket, it should drop normal/heroic gear depending on what difficulty setting you use. Its another stupid way to gate the players, it doesn't make sense to give it its own item level. When the original reason for adding Flex was to aid those guilds that couldn't fill up their 10/25m. Get rid of Flex item level and just input the system into the already existing difficulties, excluding LFR obviously. Honestly I would be okay with them removing LFR if they decided to do this.
    "I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids. "
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  10. #190
    Yes, Flex should have normal ilvl items drop. Flex is gonna be mostly used by organised PUGs or guilds aiming at gearing up for normal/hc raids. So Flex should reward teams/guilds. LFR ilvl will just make it not that attractive.

  11. #191
    LFR: Easiest level of difficulty, intended for people who don't have time for regular raiding and just want to see the content. Lowest level of gear.
    Flex: More difficult, but still easy. Mechanics are forgiving, number are forgiving, no special comp or specific number of roles/raiders needed. Second lowest level of gear.
    Normal: Standard difficulty, requiring proper execution of mechanics. Numbers are more demanding, but still easily manageable for a competent group. Specific numbers required for the group, and within the group; some min-maxing is expected and balanced around.
    Heroic: Highest difficult, requires proper execution of all mechanics and demands high numeric output at the same time. Min-maxing required and expected, very specific requirements on numbers and roles.


    For a competent group, the only reason to do anything less than normal will be to get a few extra pieces of gear to fill the gaps or to complete tier set bonuses, and that shouldn't last particularly long. Flex and LFR are explicitly not part of the progression path. *shrug* I'm not sure how this really changes anything.

  12. #192
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    By not clicking that video? By not reading that guide? By not joining a guild that forces you to play in a way you don't enjoy? By taking some fucking personal accountability for yourself for once? Players seriously need to give the blame game a rest. If YOU aren't having fun with the game anymore, only YOU can resolve that.
    About 4 million folks took some "personal accountability" in this expansion and left the game. You got your wish. Those 4 million folks who weren't having fun took some personal accountability and left. Obviously though this is not a feasible solution for the game as a whole. This forum has a nasty habit of suggesting individual solutions to what are obviously systemic problems. While that may work for you (and I say MAY because I don't I've joined a progression guild that didn't require mods or watching the videos) it is obviously not a workable solution for everybody. In fact we really ought to turn what you said around and say Players need to seriously give the blame game a rest and stop turning on their fellow players when ever they have a grievance with the games design.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Yizu View Post
    Im pretty sure 4 modes is not permanent. They are adding flex this tier as a separate mode to test it. They are prolly gonna remove lfr or implement flex on normal modes when they remove it.
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    No they are NOT. Blizzard has never ever said any such thing. Mods seriously need to start cracking down on this crap. I'm nearly certain there is a quote on the very front page of the site or on the next page from a Blizzard dev stating the complete opposite of what you said. STOP.
    is this what your referring to?

    You mentioned in another interview that the flexible raid technology could be applied to other types of content other than raiding, provided it didn’t need super tight balancing like Heroic raids. Do you think Normal difficulty raids will ever be a potential candidate for this?

    Yeah, I do think that they are a candidate and that is the next logical extension for us. That and potentially scenarios in some way becoming flexible. If you have more than two friends you want to bring along, you might be able to do that. I think those are the two most likely next candidates, but it is hard to make any promises at this point, especially because Normal difficulty raids are tuned more tightly than Flex difficulty, but we are going to try.
    How is that complete opposite of what i said? IF they TRY to apply flex on another mode then what are they gonna call flex mode then?!?! semi normal mode?! a lil harder than lfr mode? of course it will go away.

    Also if they want 4 modes a week, then why do u think they combined all 4 (10n 10h 25n 25h) after togc and wotlk?! They moved away from that model coz people wer getting burned out.

    The only reason why i included LFR as a possibility to get removed if flex is implemented on other modes, is because both LFR and FLEX have the same niche "accessibility raid" and with connected realms+ FLEX its possible to just have 1 accessible raid. They probably wont just admit this because LFR FANBOYS LIKE YOU will rage.
    Last edited by Yizu; 2013-08-25 at 09:54 AM.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by NoRest4Wicked View Post
    S I don't remember hearing someone say "We are going to lock our raid out on xxx final boss this week and skip a weeks worth of heroic gear because we don't want/need it".
    Extending a raid lockout is exactly the reason my guild killed Heroic Lei Shen the first time. Sometimes fights just take enough pulls to get down. And resetting every week is not always the best option.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    About 4 million folks took some "personal accountability" in this expansion and left the game. You got your wish. Those 4 million folks who weren't having fun took some personal accountability and left. Obviously though this is not a feasible solution for the game as a whole. This forum has a nasty habit of suggesting individual solutions to what are obviously systemic problems. While that may work for you (and I say MAY because I don't I've joined a progression guild that didn't require mods or watching the videos) it is obviously not a workable solution for everybody. In fact we really ought to turn what you said around and say Players need to seriously give the blame game a rest and stop turning on their fellow players when ever they have a grievance with the games design.
    I like how you completely missed my point and twisted my words around rather than actually respond to what I actually said. I told you that if you don't enjoy playing the game in a certain way then you should take responsibility for your own enjoyment and play it the way YOU want to play it. How you can twist that around into a "wow is dying" rant is beyond me. In all honesty if people like you quit the game then the community will be better for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yizu View Post
    is this what your referring to?



    How is that complete opposite of what i said? IF they TRY to apply flex on another mode then what are they gonna call flex mode then?!?! semi normal mode?! a lil harder than lfr mode? of course it will go away.

    Also if they want 4 modes a week, then why do u think they combined all 4 (10n 10h 25n 25h) after togc and wotlk?! They moved away from that model coz people wer getting burned out.

    The only reason why i included LFR as a possibility to get removed if flex is implemented on other modes, is because both LFR and FLEX have the same niche "accessibility raid" and with connected realms+ FLEX its possible to just have 1 accessible raid. They probably wont just admit this because LFR FANBOYS LIKE YOU will rage.
    Blizzard has flat out straight up said repeatedly (even as recently as last week) that LFR is NEVER being removed. Just give it a fucking rest. LFR isn't going anywhere but maybe you should be the one to leave if you are this butthurt over people doing easier content.

  16. #196
    At the end of the day, you need to realize that each difficulty is there to cater to a different audience, the only person who may "force" you to run LFR or Flex would possibility be your raid leader. And frankly, even hen the choice to run or not run that content still rests with you.

    Me, I like that normal modes are there for when I run on my main with my guilds raid team, but flex is there for our weekend alt runs either if we need to catch somebody up or we're pugging.....or hell, if we just want an easier more fun time coz its a weekend and we're on alts!

    LFR is there for those times I just want to play by myself and farm up some gear for a missing slot, transmog or because I want to play an alt I don't raid normal/flex on.
    You must show no mercy, Nor have any belief whatsoever in how others judge you: For your greatness will silence them all!
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  17. #197
    The Lightbringer MrHappy's Avatar
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    because game difficulties range from easy->normal->hard->Very hard except for wow which just went from easy to hard to very hard

  18. #198
    Elemental Lord Spl4sh3r's Avatar
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    The only reason I see to do LFR/Flex is to either get Transmog gear there (because the color is different, and in the next expansion it is impossible to get those colors again) and for quest items if you missed a boss on Normal/Heroic.

  19. #199
    This is just more ways for people to play how they want. I don't really see a problem. I do normal on my main(s) and LFR on my alts. Why should that go away? Are you saying I am not allowed to have some time with my alts just playing and relaxing?

    I have read the arguments about how it kills guilds (if it did kill it, your guild was not strong anyway, sorry), how people feel accomplished (never seen someone who just did LFR bragging about how great they are), how there gear looks similar (hey that person wears blue jeans as well. I am so angry. Mine cost more, so they should not be allowed to have them! (imagine if that was reality)), how it keeps people from being out in the world (sitting at a summoning stone is not a city, but not any better if you honestly think about it), how it leads to a shrinking player base (did anyone ask every person why they stopped? My guess is the majority did not due to LFR. Game age/changing interests shrink I would think shrink s player base more then anything).

    I am sorry but none of the arguments actually play out if you think about them logically as opposed to emotionally. That there is the key. You need to disassociate yourself from emotional knee-jerk responses and think about how it truly affects you. I am going to guess, not at all. Because of that let there be more options (a 40man option, a flex option for all raiding, etc). Options only hurt those who fear change and fear is in many ways one the least logical emotional responses we have when connected to things that will not, or mostly will not, harm you (such as fear of change in a video game! spiders, the dark, squirrels, mascots, etc).

  20. #200
    Deleted
    @all who say you don't have to run LFR and Flex:

    Look at demonology warlocks in ToT. Lei Shen trinket with 100% crit really made them great, even if you only had the LFR version. So come this type of trinket again you will have to run LFR, Flex and Normal/Heroic to maximize your chance to get the trinket. If you're unlucky you'll have to farm for months ... this idea I hate the most. I don't mind the different difficulty levels, but there should be restrictions.

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