What spec are you starting 5.4 with

[Deleted]

I'm fully crit geared atm but I intend to get haste/mastery in 5.4 and go Frost/Arcane, just because I can and because I mess-up my combusts all the time :P
Think I am the worst Firemage out there haha

Besides, I realy dislike the AT mechanic in fire, it feels unnatural and unforgiving. 1 messup (i.e. focused lightning on Jin-Rock >.<) aaand the rest of the team is annoyed with said mage because they all go boom But you had to use AT because trinkets popped etc. and you have to take the gamble.
I don't like to gamble.

So it's bye bye Fire and welcome back to Frost.

... Niterage ...

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...erage/advanced

[Kenbud]

I'll be staying fire till I actually see a justified reason to change or our traditional buff/nerf after patch happens and changes anything for the better/worse for any of the 3 specs. What I believe will happen is either mages being dumped by 10 mans again, and they compensate, or what sadly would drive them to revamp/fix whatever you even wanna call it these days is a mass exodus of the class, given at least from what they have said on classes they do a lot of work on, seems to be what pulls the trigger to fix stuff.

Arcane buff and a ~10% fire nerf will in no way cause a 10 man to dump their Mage(s). Fire is going to be right back on top of the top 100 after like 3 weeks and the only thing I see challenging arcane for the top overall is assassination.

[Kenbud]

Why everybody assumes that Fire gets nerfed?

Because it did....

[Eschatonin]

Frost. Been Frost this entire expansion, and not only do I really enjoy playing it, I'm pretty good at it.

[Shakapopolus]

Arcane buff and a ~10% fire nerf will in no way cause a 10 man to dump their Mage(s). Fire is going to be right back on top of the top 100 after like 3 weeks and the only thing I see challenging arcane for the top overall is assassination.

I'm not worried about that happening either, but all things aside that is what it will take for mages to get the changes we want, and that other classes have gotten.

[Akraen]

Can we not?

I don't get why people keep thinking the "buff" to Mastery was that huge. The ONLY mathematical change is that the 2% damage per point of Mastery now affects Frostbolt instead of Ice Lance, but something to keep in mind is that Frostbolt damage was nerfed as of Live, and same with FFB (which is a nerf to FFB's scaling of Mastery).

There won't be any real stat change for Frost as of 5.4. If you're Heroic geared, you'll still be doing Haste Cap > Mastery.

My example is from live, so that's before counting the icicles.

[biermanjason]

I dont understand how anybody can play frost in a heroic progression guild knowing its wwwwaaaaayyyyy behind the other 2 specs..

[Kagecamia]

Arcane buff and a ~10% fire nerf will in no way cause a 10 man to dump their Mage(s). Fire is going to be right back on top of the top 100 after like 3 weeks and the only thing I see challenging arcane for the top overall is assassination.

You have afflic and demo, but those specs went from at/near the top of the meters in 5.2/5.3 to middle of the pack in Siege.

Probably going to shelf my lock come 5.4 and either tank for my guild or raid on my mage. I went frost and arcane this tier and I am pulling some pretty good numbers as frost and I would love to go back to arcane next tier.

[fusionz]

You have afflic and demo, but those specs went from at/near the top of the meters in 5.2/5.3 to middle of the pack in Siege.

omg I nearly pissed my pants laughing!

[Kagecamia]

omg I nearly pissed my pants laughing!

Well put up or shut up. Show me some of your feedback from the ptr in regards to afflic and demo post UVLS. All the data I am seeing says otherwise.

[Polarthief]

omg I nearly pissed my pants laughing!

I actually misread what Kage was saying as well, but thankfully, I didn't post until I read it again (Because I realized NO ONE could be that oblivious). Post UVLS though, he's right. Afflic was nerfed pretty hard, and Demo was pretty destroyed. Granted, Warlocks at least aren't still being shit on by QoL issues that just ruins fun gameplay completely.


Then again, who the fuck cares because this is a MAGE forum.

[Kenbud]

You have afflic and demo, but those specs went from at/near the top of the meters in 5.2/5.3 to middle of the pack in Siege

My post was referring to 5.4 i.e. referring to changes that have not happened yet. I don't see a spec, other then assassination, challenging arcane. Fire is going to be just fine after it gets some Siege gear. I guess I'm just confused as to what your post meant.

[Mastamage]

I dont understand how anybody can play frost in a heroic progression guild knowing its wwwwaaaaayyyyy behind the other 2 specs..

Bring the player, not the class (or spec).

[Kenbud]

Bring the player, not the class (or spec).

That makes zero sense. A 15% disparity in damage, you cant over look that, its the same player and the same utility. So Blizzards favorite saying is not applicable here.

[Mastamage]

That makes zero sense. A 15% disparity in damage, you cant over look that, its the same player and the same utility. So Blizzards favorite saying is not applicable here.

If you're not a top 100 world guild, spec doesn't matter. Lots of mages were sat during ToT progression bc guild leaders were asshats and understood none of it.

[Kenbud]

If you're not a top 100 world guild, spec doesn't matter. Lots of mages were sat during ToT progression bc guild leaders were asshats and understood none of it.

We bring nothing to the table except dps. That's what mages are for so if we are not producing good numbers then how were RL's asshats for sitting us? Progression is progression no matter the number on WoWprogress. If you are having trouble with a fight then having a frost mage pulling 20 million less damage then a fire/arcane mage is a big deal. That being said if you are not having issues then play what ever you want but don't pretend it doesn't matter just because your are not "cutting edge". Anyone playing frost for progression next tier (unless some major number tweaking has yet to be done) is asking to be carried. Yeah you might do mechanics perfectly and be an awesome player but why not do that while putting out max damage from you class? I love frost, i was one of its biggest proponents for a long time until one day i had 2 top 5 ranks on Magera, one as arcane and one as frost, with my frost rank being 40k DPS lower then arcane. Frost could keep up for a long time but when people started hitting the 540s the disparity became too much to ignore and with 5.4 as it stands the gap will be even wider because frost is at ~10% nerf from live.

[Mastamage]

We bring nothing to the table except dps. That's what mages are for so if we are not producing good numbers then how were RL's asshats for sitting us? Progression is progression no matter the number on WoWprogress. If you are having trouble with a fight then having a frost mage pulling 20 million less damage then a fire/arcane mage is a big deal. That being said if you are not having issues then play what ever you want but don't pretend it doesn't matter just because your are not "cutting edge". Anyone playing frost for progression next tier (unless some major number tweaking has yet to be done) is asking to be carried. Yeah you might do mechanics perfectly and be an awesome player but why not do that while putting out max damage from you class? I love frost, i was one of its biggest proponents for a long time until one day i had 2 top 5 ranks on Magera, one as arcane and one as frost, with my frost rank being 40k DPS lower then arcane. Frost could keep up for a long time but when people started hitting the 540s the disparity became too much to ignore and with 5.4 as it stands the gap will be even wider because frost is at ~10% nerf from live.

I understand where you're coming from and I would agree with you if a specific fight required us to be a specific spec. However, they don't. In the end what needs to be fixed is the way Blizz works and scales Mages in the future.

[Akraen]

I chose to be a guild leader of a 11/13H guild who doesn't ask for anyone to play any spec. We have a holy priest, a marks hunter, and two frost mages.

We're happy. We're a minority, but we're happy.

PS: The reason we're 11/13H and not 13/13H has nothing to do with specs.

[Kenbud]

I understand where you're coming from and I would agree with you if a specific fight required us to be a specific spec. However, they don't. In the end what needs to be fixed is the way Blizz works and scales Mages in the future.

I agree. By nature we are a very good pvp class and Iv said this before but blizzard is trying to balance 2 aspects of the game using the same slide rule. It just doesn't work, someone us gonna get screwed.

- - - Updated - - -

I agree. By nature we are a very good pvp class and Iv said this before but blizzard is trying to balance 2 aspects of the game using the same slide rule. It just doesn't work, someone us gonna get screwed.

Like my post said if its not and issue then play whatever. I'm speaking from a pure numbers stand point, using your example of 2 frost mages if they were fire or arcane the potential damage difference is huge. Enough to make up for any 1 or 2% wipes you may have during progression.

[Akraen]

Like my post said if its not and issue then play whatever. I'm speaking from a pure numbers stand point, using your example of 2 frost mages if they were fire or arcane the potential damage difference is huge. Enough to make up for any 1 or 2% wipes you may have during progression.

Only good guilds wipe at 1-3%.

The middle class guilds sitting at 11/13H right now like mine wipe because all the bads we've been carrying can't do independent responsibility fights like Heroic Lei Shen. We never had DPS issues in any Heroic ToT fights, to the point where they were all carried by the frost mages. :P

Don't worry though, we frosties feel the guilt. I know I could be carrying the baddies even more effectively if I was fire. But then I'd be miserable and stop raiding all together, so there you have it. You're not wrong with your points or anything, just that... skilled players can do these fights even as frost and DPS isn't the issue except right out of the gates (ilvls come easy and make up for spec differences), and right out of the gates isn't where most guilds progress. You're at the top so it matters a lot more for your guild.