What would had happened if Sargeras went through the portal?

[Aquamonkey]

I've got a question that I might as well post in here since it's not really worth creating a separate thread.

On wowpedia Sargeras' size is described as: 'Sargeras is a huge being almost beyond comprehension'

How could he have fit through the tiny well of eternity?

His size was definitely comprehensible in the novels.

The power the stranger radiated swirled in glorious hues and vibrations, flowing like a cape behind him, encircling his mighty
head with light like a crown.
--Rise of the Horde

A resounding bellow of outrage deafened the injured warrior. Through what remained of his good eye, Brox caught sight of a titanic, horned figure in molten black armor whose thick mane and beard appeared to be composed of wildly dancing flames. The orc could not make out the giant's features well enough, yet somehow knew them to be both wondrously perfect and terribly awful at the same time.
Then, the titan raised one arm and in it Brox beheld a long, wicked sword the upper half of whose blade had been broken off. What remained was jagged and still very capable of slaying.
...
Sargeras stood at the gateway. Despite the incredible forces driving his horde back into his realm, the lord of the Legion pressed forward. Slowly, surely, he reached the portal…
But as Sargeras neared, Krasus noted a stunning thing. The demon lord was injured, albeit minutely. A small slash mark decorated his right leg, a mark that Krasus‟s keen eyes recognized as made by an ax.
...
In comparison to Sargeras, both Archimonde and Mannoroth were as fleas. The power of a hundred dragons would have been as nothing to him. Had Krasus sought to strike Sargeras directly, either in the chest or head, the results would have been laughable, at least to the demon lord. That Brox had managed his miraculous attack at all said much for the power imbued in the weapon by the druid and his shan‟do.
--The Sundering

[Deleted]

His size was definitely comprehensible in the novels.

'The orc could not make out the giant's features well enough, yet somehow knew them to be both wondrously perfect and terribly awful at the same time.'

Love that line, thanks.

[Wazooty]

Inb4 there was actually an old god on the nathrezim homeworld that is the source of fel energies aka the real mastermind of the burning legion.

Basically, the burning legion is akin to the faceless one, thralls used to wage war against other old gods, titans, etc.

[TJ]

I remember a while back, someone posted on 4chan (reliable!) claiming to be Chris Metzen and went on to answer a lot of lore questions. Could easily have been fake, but the amount of detail and 'Metzen-talk' the guy used was huge. Anyways, one of the things he said was there was a civil war in the Burning Legion, between those loyal to Kil'Jaeden and those loyal to Sargeras. I like this. It makes the Legion have more depth and could really explain where Sargeras has been.

Speaking of which, we have no idea where he is. He was sent back to the Twisting Nether, and he has audio in game from the Wrathgate, so we know he is still alive. Perhaps he is weakened temporarily and Kil'Jaeden is taking every advantage of this. He seemed pretty damn cocky in Sunwell.

Lastly, the Universe in WoW, much like the irl one, is huge. The Pantheon are most likely doing there usual thing in some quadrant of the Universe, and haven't been alarmed of what is going on in Azeroth yet. Boring, but it explains where they are.

That was a fake story supposed to be the theme of the unknown expansion which was then confirmed to be MoP. I was looking forward to that But it doesn't make any sense tbh. Why would any of the demons side with KJ when Sargeras is a thousand KJ's on steroids (aka you'd get slaughtered if you sided with him)? Why would KJ try and rebel against Sarg when Sarg could laugh at his power and crush him with ease? It doesn't make sense unless there was a huge retcon or event in the lore which would be immensely stupid since a normal Eredar would somehow rival the likely most powerful Titan's power.

It is canon and the point is clear.

Link the novel or the source or w/e and then I'll believe you, unless Blizzard have specifically stated it then it's not canon.

[Aquamonkey]

What's your point? That is not canon.

Link the novel or the source or w/e and then I'll believe you, unless Blizzard have specifically stated it then it's not canon.

They felt the nearness of their freedom quickly approaching. How ironic that it would be one who had once been one of the hated Titans who would prove the instrument of their release! It had taken the combined might of many Titans to even force them into captivity; after their triumphant return, there would be little effort needed to eradicate this single, arrogant creature and turn his warriors to serving their cause.
The portal strengthened. The time when to usurp it fast approached. Most amusing, the pathetic little beings who fought the fallen Titan‟s warriors thought that they could take back the disk. Even now, the imprisoned entities could sense the dragons—the Titans‟ hounds—approaching the Well.

It's from War of the Ancients: Book 3: The Sundering.

[Gamevizier]

What would had happened if Sargeras went through the portal and freed the Old Gods? Would the Old Gods make Sargeras beg for mercy or would they underestimate him? or would they

Sargares would start to annihilate this world...and we had no choice but to unleash the ancient evil that rests within Azeroth.

we would've had to delve deep into the barrow dens and unseal Chuck Norris' prison door...and hope for the best.

[Norgannon the Dreamweaver]

The Old Gods certainly considered themselves superior to him during the first invasion. Of course we killed two of them and some of their strongest servants, since then. But during the war of the ancients, they certainly felt that all of them together could surely defeat a single Titan, in the Well of Eternity trilogy. Whether it's true is unknown. It took a Pantheon of Titans to take down the Old Gods. It's possible Sargeras has gained enough power to match the whole Titan Pantheon since his fall.

I like how you're making bull**** up. Just like most lore posers on forums.

- - - Updated - - -

My first question would be why he's freeing them in the first place? :S
The Old Gods would literally devour Sargeras on his own if they were all free. He's strong but against 3/4 Old Gods, alone, he'd have as much chance as a mechanical rabbit would against Sargeras.

We actually have more proof that a Pantheon titan would wipe the floor with any number of Old Gods than the other way around. C'thun barely managed to defeat a 'normal' titan. No group of Old Gods could stand against a single Pantheon member. Algalon even stated the power of the Titans during his encounter in Ulduar.

"I have seen worlds bathed in the Makers' flames. Their denizens fading without so much as a whimper. Entire planetary systems born and raised in the time that it takes your mortal hearts to beat once." - Algalon

I highly doubt the Old Gods can compare to them after that statement.

[Tyrannica]

hehe the Fans proably care more about that lore than the devs themselves. I bet it will be retconned anything how they want it when its the right time, same procedure as every year.

I like the theory that an old god, probably much more powerful one than the ones on azeroth, made Sargeras mad and created all these demons before sargeras turned dark and insane and when he fought against them.

Somehow the madness of Sargeras needs to be explained more. Few minor demons couldn't drive him mad possibly, well most of the explanation given in the old lore sounds pretty lacking and lame. Every Titan should be a dark titan by now if thats all whats needed to become a chaotic evil Juggernaut.

[Caerule]

I like how you're making bull**** up. Just like most lore posers on forums.

Well, there's a mature contribution to the discussion.

The source of the information you quoted, as stated, is in the War of the Ancients trilogy dealing with the Well of Eternity. I can copy some direct quotes from the book, as they are relevant to the discussion anyway.

Opening of Book 3, War of the Ancients. The Sundering.
From his monstrous realm, the lord of the Legion prepared for his entrance into this latest prize. Soon, so
very soon, he would eradicate all life, all existence, from it…and then he would go on to the next ripe world.
But there were others waiting in growing expectation, others with dire dreams far older than even that of the demon
lord. They had waited for so very long for the means to escape, the means to reclaim what had once been theirs.
Each step of success by Sargeras toward strengthening his portal was a step of success for them. With the Well,
with the Demon Soul, and with the lord of the Legion’s might, they would open up a window into their eternal
prison.

And once open, there would be no sealing it again.
The Old Gods waited. They had done so for so very long, they could wait a little longer.
But only a little…

And from the same book, the perspective of the Old Gods themselves about a confrontation with Sargeras:
They felt the nearness of their freedom quickly approaching. How ironic that it would be one who had once been
one of the hated Titans who would prove the instrument of their release! It had taken the combined might of many
Titans to even force them into captivity; after their triumphant return, there would be little effort needed to eradicate
this single, arrogant creature and turn his warriors to serving their cause.

Like I said, the Old Gods were convinced they could kick Sargeras' butt upon their release. We've robbed them of vital tools and servants now though, and took two of them out of the fight, at least for now.

[Aquamonkey]

And from the same book, the perspective of the Old Gods themselves about a confrontation with Sargeras:
They felt the nearness of their freedom quickly approaching. How ironic that it would be one who had once been
one of the hated Titans who would prove the instrument of their release! It had taken the combined might of many
Titans to even force them into captivity; after their triumphant return, there would be little effort needed to eradicate
this single, arrogant creature and turn his warriors to serving their cause.

Like I said, the Old Gods were convinced they could kick Sargeras' butt upon their release. We've robbed them of vital tools and servants now though, and took two of them out of the fight, at least for now.

I would still call that speculative. The Old Gods are comparing Sargeras to the Titans who imprisoned them. They don't actually know Sargeras' true power. Sargeras was the Titans' greatest warrior (i.e. stronger than any of the Titans those Old Gods faced), but had left the Pantheon long before they fought the Old Gods. Sargeras has grown a lot stronger since he left.

[AlmightyGerkin]

I;m pretty sure I've read somewhere that the moment he got close to the portal the Old Gods would manipulate the portal into their prison and bunch of chaos would occur.

[Unionoob]

Well this is just my thought but I think reason Titans didn't kill most of Old Gods was because they are needed to create living. They cause curse of flash and if they are killed that will end curse of flash aka will just put end to us. But at same time they are placing all around Algalon type structures to observe worlds if Old Gods are in place or no, if no then he just eradicate place and start everything from 0.

And when looking on Outland you don't need them to have on each planet but more like on one planet in each solar system. With that there will be enough to spread life across all planets near by.

We don't know how really powerful are Old Gods and Titans but we know that that Old Gods are very egoistic creatures which think they are the strongest ones and the most powerful ones. What could make them to overestimate there real strenght.

[Shadowygoodness]

hehe the Fans proably care more about that lore than the devs themselves. I bet it will be retconned anything how they want it when its the right time, same procedure as every year.

I like the theory that an old god, probably much more powerful one than the ones on azeroth, made Sargeras mad and created all these demons before sargeras turned dark and insane and when he fought against them.

Somehow the madness of Sargeras needs to be explained more. Few minor demons couldn't drive him mad possibly, well most of the explanation given in the old lore sounds pretty lacking and lame. Every Titan should be a dark titan by now if thats all whats needed to become a chaotic evil Juggernaut.

The thing is Sargeras wasn't driven mad. He sunk into a depression after millenia of imprisoning demon horde after demon horde. He's still very sane; it's just a matter of perspective. Of course WE, the denizens of Azeroth, think he's insane, b/c he wants to wipe us out. However, look at it from his perspective. His main prerogative in life is to bring about order to the cosmos. What he found after millenia was that LIFE itself is chaotic and his current answer (imprisoning demons) to bringing order was insufficient. It was at this moment, he had an epiphany and realized to bring order to the universe, all life must be extinguished - only then could absolute order be obtained. This is where Sargeras' philosophy diverged from his brethren and led him to forsake the Pantheon and create the Burning Legion.

At then end of the day, Sargeras is still just trying to perform his main function - bringing order to the universe. Unfortunately for us, his answer is universal genocide.

[Caerule]

I would still call that speculative.

Well yes, it's debatable if the Old Gods were right in feeling that would overpower Sargeras easily. All I'm stating is that according to the book, they certainly felt they would. Sargeras trying to emerge from the Well of Eternity using the Dragon Soul was all according to their plan of escape. Whether it was a smart plan, we may never know.

[khalltusk]

Well yes, it's debatable if the Old Gods were right in feeling that would overpower Sargeras easily. All I'm stating is that according to the book, they certainly felt they would. Sargeras trying to emerge from the Well of Eternity using the Dragon Soul was all according to their plan of escape. Whether it was a smart plan, we may never know.

Ask any boxer before a fight if they can beat their opponent, they say they will. The only way of knowing is after the fight :P

[Deleted]

Would it be cool, if wow ends with sargeras finally erasing all life forms in azeroth?

[TJ]

They felt the nearness of their freedom quickly approaching. How ironic that it would be one who had once been one of the hated Titans who would prove the instrument of their release! It had taken the combined might of many Titans to even force them into captivity; after their triumphant return, there would be little effort needed to eradicate this single, arrogant creature and turn his warriors to serving their cause.
The portal strengthened. The time when to usurp it fast approached. Most amusing, the pathetic little beings who fought the fallen Titan‟s warriors thought that they could take back the disk. Even now, the imprisoned entities could sense the dragons—the Titans‟ hounds—approaching the Well.

It's from War of the Ancients: Book 3: The Sundering.

It's from Knaak. As I said, that isn't canon? Unless I'm mistaken, I'm not being arrogant here. I think that is also from an Old God's perspective, as in they *thought* they could take Sarg with ease. I don't think it's directly stating what it's describing. If you understand me.

[Caerule]

It's from Knaak. As I said, that isn't canon? Unless I'm mistaken, I'm not being arrogant here.

Like him or not Knaak's books are canon, and have shaped more aspects of the WoW universe than any other author. It's the Roleplay Game books that Blizzard has stated are no longer canon, but the literature books are as canon as can be. In most cases, the literature seems to be taken as more canon than events represented in the game. The game is based on the canon, but gameplay takes precedent over lore.

I agree with you of course that this is merely the old god perspective. They thought they could take on Sargeras with ease. They did seem to have the element of surprise in their favour, at least. It doesn't seem Sargeras feels his actions are planned and counted on, by another great force. We have no real idea about the true power of Sargeras. The Old Gods yet saw him as a Titan, with the power level of one.

[Tyrannica]

The thing is Sargeras wasn't driven mad. He sunk into a depression after millenia of imprisoning demon horde after demon horde. He's still very sane; it's just a matter of perspective. Of course WE, the denizens of Azeroth, think he's insane, b/c he wants to wipe us out. However, look at it from his perspective. His main prerogative in life is to bring about order to the cosmos. What he found after millenia was that LIFE itself is chaotic and his current answer (imprisoning demons) to bringing order was insufficient. It was at this moment, he had an epiphany and realized to bring order to the universe, all life must be extinguished - only then could absolute order be obtained. This is where Sargeras' philosophy diverged from his brethren and led him to forsake the Pantheon and create the Burning Legion.

At then end of the day, Sargeras is still just trying to perform his main function - bringing order to the universe. Unfortunately for us, his answer is universal genocide.

Thats a good point, i wonder if blizzard is consistent enough to use this or it will be all retconned and he turns out to be just a chaotic demon spawn influenced by something else. There is so much corruption going on in those blizzard games and retcons.

[Shadowygoodness]

Thats a good point, i wonder if blizzard is consistent enough to use this or it will be all retconned and he turns out to be just a chaotic demon spawn influenced by something else. There is so much corruption going on in those blizzard games and retcons.

I'm sure it'll all be retconned. In the end he'll just be another dick spouting shit throughout an encounter while we pillage his body for purples.