is there a Warlock T16 Preliminary BiS ?

[Deleted]

I did a quick check using both the ptr and live builds with simcraft, and haste still holds a higher value than mastery. Maybe we should shoot for a higher bp.

Wow seriously? Didn't expect that at all with damage being shifted so much to our dots. However doesn't multi-target still favor mastery?

[Deleted]

Wow seriously? Didn't expect that at all with damage being shifted so much to our dots. However doesn't multi-target still favor mastery?

Yeah it should. It was just a quick check to see if I should go for more mastery. I shouldn't, according to patchwerk sim.

[Cebel]

Wow seriously? Didn't expect that at all with damage being shifted so much to our dots. However doesn't multi-target still favor mastery?

to be fair, hastes value was overinflated by simcraft due to rppm trinkets, in game there was never a very noticable difference in procs due to haste, however since simcraft is doing THOUSANDS of tests, its going to see a smoothing out of the RNG from the extra haste.

[Woz]

Also worth noting the amount of Patchwerk style fights in SoO (or even in this game in general) are very slim. So far throughout all the testing I am pretty confident you'll see better numbers going for 13737 breakpoint then going full Mastery after that.

[Woz]

Since I had some time I decided to see what we could potentially hit numbers wise with the "bis" setup I believe we will be using (obviously there are potentially better setups but this one is in particular yields a very even distribution of Mastery/Haste while hitting a decent breakpoint.

Spreadsheet here

[Jetjaguar]

I think i'd rather be using http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=105592 or http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=105604 for chest and http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=105606 over one or the other rings that you have on that list.

[Woz]

Hmmm...That ring I'd say definitely. I'll play with the other chests as well - good to keep in mind.

Edit: I know why I didn't see that ring - lol@spirit bonus

[nightrianna]

am I reading this right? No 4pc at all for demo or affi? The 4set is really amazing as affi because it allows you to roll haunt longer on the target

[Deleted]

am I reading this right? No 4pc at all for demo or affi? The 4set is really amazing as affi because it allows you to roll haunt longer on the target

Not really, no. 10% more shards is simply not worth getting the crit set pieces instead of the haste/mastery/hit off-pieces.

[nightrianna]

also affliction might go for the 13k haste breakpoint then full mastery just to snack the extra agony tick
I might just use wush for progression because it is too sick for affliction until you get black blood

[Woz]

am I reading this right? No 4pc at all for demo or affi? The 4set is really amazing as affi because it allows you to roll haunt longer on the target

4Pc is garbage for Affliction especially considering the stats on the tier pieces.

That being said; Jet I input a couple those pieces in a couple of different ways and came up with these options. The second iteration I suppose if you wanted to hit the 18207 breakpoint you could swap some of the gems around from Mastery to Haste but overall fairly similar stats for each gearset.

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also affliction might go for the 13k haste breakpoint then full mastery just to snack the extra agony tick

You're not able to get that low of haste without taking a number of crit/mastery offpieces, which really isn't that optimal considering you can still hit 18k+ mastery while maintaining 18k haste or dropping down to 16k haste and having 20k mastery.

Edit: Apparently changing the shoulders to the Hit/Mastery ones was enough to be able to drop haste down to the 13737 cap to get 22k mastery. Spreadsheet

[Baconeggcheese]

Arbitrary difference between haste and mastery has been fairly negligible difference this entire xpac. Even on the ptr right now I test with another warlock who's at the 13.7k breakpoint and I run the 9.8k breakpoint and the difference in our dmg is entirely based on who got an extra proc at a good time on a given pull.

The two stats are so insanely close in value with how HUGE the difference in dps can be from pull to pull on rng alone that it's really going to come down to personal preference. There is no right answer outside of

ALL THE HASTE!
ALL THE MASTERY!
NONE OF THE CRIT!

[Woz]

It can still give you a good idea of where you'll be at.

If you want to have higher mastery, go for the lower (13737) haste point. If you want to have equal then go for a different gear setup.

[nightrianna]

I always liked mastery better;D our dots hit reallyyyyyyyyy fking hard and affi's dmg is out of control

[Devious009]

Good to hear, this should make gearing for a Demo off spec much easier

[JV Chequer]

I Think for multi-target fights a mastery focused build is way better and there's a lot of fights like that in SoO, so, I'll probably keep the 13,8k~ breakpoint for most situations.

[Devious009]

I was looking at the trinkets from SoO earlier especially the Amp one and I had a question .. would you consider a Warlock should get priority on a trinket like Amp?

My reasoning would be it was mentioned that the Cleave and Multistrike trinkets are not triggered by our Pets / Guardians so to an extent that will affect its uptime as opposed to a petless spec like say a fire mage or an ele shaman and it would be best to pass on it for them, but the Amp trinket (which many caster specs consider it BiS for them) we get the most out of it because I think Warlocks is the class that gets the most of the trinket DPS wise since we get Mastery (we scale amazing with that) Haste which we also scale very good with (maybe Destro not so much) and Crit Damage and also because we dont really have options other than Amp and BBoY as valid trinkets that we could make full use of. Does anyone agree / disagree ?

P.S: I didnt mention the Int proc cuz it's like "hey who doesnt want more int" :P

[Deleted]

I was looking at the trinkets from SoO earlier especially the Amp one and I had a question .. would you consider a Warlock should get priority on a trinket like Amp?

My reasoning would be it was mentioned that the Cleave and Multistrike trinkets are not triggered by our Pets / Guardians so to an extent that will affect its uptime as opposed to a petless spec like say a fire mage or an ele shaman and it would be best to pass on it for them, but the Amp trinket (which many caster specs consider it BiS for them) we get the most out of it because I think Warlocks is the class that gets the most of the trinket DPS wise since we get Mastery (we scale amazing with that) Haste which we also scale very good with (maybe Destro not so much) and Crit Damage and also because we dont really have options other than Amp and BBoY as valid trinkets that we could make full use of. Does anyone agree / disagree ?

P.S: I didnt mention the Int proc cuz it's like "hey who doesnt want more int" :P

Pets don't scale off the crit amp part. Also, IMO KTT is better for us than Bindings, and Wushoolay is amazing. Breath is also quite ok for us. So I disagree strongly

[Deleted]

is KTT really better for afflic than bindings? i was under the assumption that bindings and BBoY was best for afflic since multistrike doesnt proc from pets. atleast im inclined to go with those 2 trinkets.

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I Think for multi-target fights a mastery focused build is way better and there's a lot of fights like that in SoO, so, I'll probably keep the 13,8k~ breakpoint for most situations.

the reason why the 18207 haste breakpoint is so good is bcoz you hit not 1 but 2 breakpoints at the same time, getting an extra tick from both corruption AND UA so it is a really good point to reach but it comes down to preference tbh.

[Woz]

the reason why the 18207 haste breakpoint is so good is bcoz you hit not 1 but 2 breakpoints at the same time, getting an extra tick from both corruption AND UA so it is a really good point to reach but it comes down to preference tbh.

You hit 2 breakpoints with 13737 as well (Agony@13157 and Corruption@13737).

And to expand on KTT vs Bindings - I can certainly see the merits of KTT being extremely good on multi-target but the value of Bindings is that it allows you to hit your haste caps at a much lower value than you normally would be able to hit them. Even if you look at the 13737 Haste set-up it frees you up from having to get an extra 1150 haste (allowing more mastery) and even larger difference when you look towards the 18207 breakpoint (1500 haste).

Realistically it seems as though it will be down to the same case in T15 being "which trinkets can you get first for progression - THEN look for the absolute best" and progression wise, Bindings comes off the first boss.