is there a Warlock T16 Preliminary BiS ?

[Deleted]

You had the 8 sec cd before, but instead you could stack the shadowbolt/haunt debuff on more targets

[nightrianna]

Demo-Purified Tears/Unerring vision of lei shen
Affi-thunderforged wush(until black blood)/Purified Tears
Bis trinkets for both specs

[sasofrass]

Demo-Purified Tears/Unerring vision of lei shen
Affi-thunderforged wush(until black blood)/Purified Tears
Bis trinkets for both specs

And what makes you sure UVLS is bis for demo? EA glyph is gone and it procs less than live.

[Deleted]

Demo-Purified Tears/Unerring vision of lei shen
Affi-thunderforged wush(until black blood)/Purified Tears
Bis trinkets for both specs

No explanation at all and almost certainly wrong... There is no way UVLS can compete with FCoR on the fights you would want to play Demo on. The cleave passive is not bad at all, and UVLS got hit quite a bit. I would bet you my computer KTT heroic is better for Affliction than both the trinkets you listed, BBoY being its competition for the top spot. No idea why people think Bindings (its name is not Tears) is so great, the ICD is so long that you will have far fewer procs than all the other trinkets.

Maybe you care to add some reasoning to your statement?

[Deleted]

No explanation at all and almost certainly wrong... There is no way UVLS can compete with FCoR on the fights you would want to play Demo on. The cleave passive is not bad at all, and UVLS got hit quite a bit. I would bet you my computer KTT heroic is better for Affliction than both the trinkets you listed, BBoY being its competition for the top spot. No idea why people think Bindings (its name is not Tears) is so great, the ICD is so long that you will have far fewer procs than all the other trinkets.

Maybe you care to add some reasoning to your statement?

well technically you'll have a bigger uptime on the bindings than on KTT due to it being a 20 sec proc vs a 10 sec, which will make KTT better for afflic when it comes to their procs, but where bindings will shine is its passive which will have a huge affect on your dps. its funny tho, you dont get why ppl think bindings is so great, i feel the exact same way about KTT.

[Shodan30]

Can someone put together a BIS for Destro that doesnt use heroic pieces? Lots of people only do normal runs.

[nightrianna]

Hm lets see dude.
Toxic Totem-11,761 int outside of siege
Black Blood- 23,500 max int at 10 stacks

That multi strike shit does 3% of your dmg as affi. That is not a lot of dmg at all for affi's breakdown because you only have haunt, pet, filler spells, and your dots as a source of damage so it makes multi strike " look good" xD but the max hit I seen was 68k n it did 1mil dmg over 3mins.

Idk about you guys but I always get multiple procs from Black blood as affliction, and the int difference between you soulburn soul swapping is insane between those two trinkets.

Bindings allows you to line up that int with a dark soul and if you are lucky might line up with another black blood, but it also lets you hit a haste breakpoint without reforging

Unerring vision of lei shen at least for my lock every time I go demo "Council Encounters" my unerring vision always procs quickly.

[Chrispotter]

um because maybe I tested all the trinkets and noticed my dps is lower with the totem then with black blood :P think I know what I am talking about since I am from
Duality:P

An if you think unerring vision is not good for demo on ptr you are soooooooooooooooo wrong. The fights you play demo on our council encounters mostly and for me unerring always procs in the openier on ptr

Except on any fight were UVLS is viable for demo, it is likely affliction will just be better on that fight with the new Soulswap.

[EvreliaGaming]

Not sure if it's just a weird scaling issue but UVLS was proccing consistently on every pull last night on Malkorok, and proccing a lot after that, causing Demo to outscale Affliction (and that's probably the most patchwerk fight of the tier). Of course, much too small a sample size to draw any conclusions and our pulls didn't last more than a couple minutes, but still interesting.

[Deleted]

Not sure if it's just a weird scaling issue but UVLS was proccing consistently on every pull last night on Malkorok, and proccing a lot after that, causing Demo to outscale Affliction (and that's probably the most patchwerk fight of the tier). Of course, much too small a sample size to draw any conclusions and our pulls didn't last more than a couple minutes, but still interesting.

i think that is mainly a weird item scaling bug. ive heard a lot of ppl saying this that their uvls procs a lot while testing particularly hc encounters but we need to keep in mind that on those encounters your UVLS is scaled to 560(afaik) which will give you a proc increase or it could just be that it is now properly benefitting from the rppm fix that was implemented a few days ago.

[nightrianna]

I was affi for malkorok yesterday and I wish our other locks were online to test with me, but me and our mage folius were bursting to 1mil as affi and arcane and stayed around 601k around the 3min mark. I was using black blood and bindings

[Cebel]

I was affi for malkorok yesterday and I wish our other locks were online to test with me, but me and our mage folius were bursting to 1mil as affi and arcane and stayed around 601k around the 3min mark. I was using black blood and bindings

i wish my black blood would proc more than every 2.25 minutes on average RIP.

[Deleted]

i wish my black blood would proc more than every 2.25 minutes on average RIP.

hehe yeah, i can imagine, i very often get 3 procs in the first minute so i often tend to have a relatively high uptime on it(around 20% depending on the length of the test.). do like i do, with grimoire of sacrifice being crap for afflic, ive started to sac kittens for good luck, so far its helped^^

[nightrianna]

Tbh on our Iron juggernaut heroic testing I had 4 black bloods in a row from the opener -.-
I think me and cocobutterz were in for that boss.. that trinket can seriously be god.

"Do like I do, with grimoire of sacrifice being crap for affi, I've started to sac kittens for good luck" ahahahahaahahahahahaahahahah that shit was funny xD

[Deleted]

Tbh on our Iron juggernaut heroic testing I had 4 black bloods in a row from the opener -.-
I think me and cocobutterz were in for that boss.. that trinket can seriously be god.

"Do like I do, with grimoire of sacrifice being crap for affi, I've started to sac kittens for good luck" ahahahahaahahahahahaahahahah that shit was funny xD

yeah, im seeing that that too, i usually get 2-3 black blood procs on pull as well(albeit its only dummy tests) and it is just insane for opener burst, i often get a new proc of BBoY b4 the first proc from bindings have ended.

[Deleted]

Hm lets see dude.
Toxic Totem-11,761 int outside of siege
Black Blood- 23,500 max int at 10 stacks

That multi strike shit does 3% of your dmg as affi. That is not a lot of dmg at all for affi's breakdown because you only have haunt, pet, filler spells, and your dots as a source of damage so it makes multi strike " look good" xD but the max hit I seen was 68k n it did 1mil dmg over 3mins.

Idk about you guys but I always get multiple procs from Black blood as affliction, and the int difference between you soulburn soul swapping is insane between those two trinkets.

Bindings allows you to line up that int with a dark soul and if you are lucky might line up with another black blood, but it also lets you hit a haste breakpoint without reforging

Unerring vision of lei shen at least for my lock every time I go demo "Council Encounters" my unerring vision always procs quickly.

No one is arguing BBoY is bad, it's clearly very good. The main question is what wins between KTT and Bindings.

So, Bindings... The fact your dots are not buffed by its proc for huge amounts of time (over half the time even in the best case, i.e. Agony) seems to me like a massive downside. AD already guarantees you can combine DS with a big intellect proc, Bindings has nothing over any of the other trinkets in that regard.

''multi strike does 3% of your dmg'' is simply not true. Heroic version has 15,9% cast to proc for 1/3 of damage on every damage you do, except pet. Let's be generous and say your pet does 15%, that leaves 85% * ,159 proc chance * 1/3 damage = ~4,5% damage gain from the passive.

Compare that to Bindings passive: assuming 25% crit (I think that's reasonable on Affliction), the crit portion is worth ,25 * ,85 (doesn't work on pet) * ,08 (Bindings heroic amplification) = 1,7% damage. Simulating with current SimC with my character gives 3,9% gain from 3000 extra mastery, which I think is being generous talking about heroic (not WF 2/2) gear. Additionally you pretty much have to use BBoY combined with Bindings to get that high, which not everyone will have. Obviously that's not a great simulation since the model is old and my gear is a tier behind, but I don't see any of that making a huge difference. So that makes ~5,6% damage gain total from Bindings passive. Hardly a big difference with KTT, and nowhere close to compensating for the inferior proc IMO.

[Deleted]

also am i the only 1 getting BBoY to proc when i cast CoE? i seem to always get it to proc when i cast CoE on a dummy. bindings seem to proc from CoE as well, they didnt used to do that, did they?

[Woz]

@strmstrike: if you look at the spreadsheet I linked a couple pages ago; in full 2/2 WF gear bindings is going to give you ~2200 mastery (iirc) and frees up ~1150 in the long run.

I can definitely understand your point for KTT as well. The way I see it is this: Bindings is going to give us (passively) ~4000 stats combined which gives you a lot more options for other gear slots and generally just makes it so you can whore more mastery.

I'd have to say overall though the fight between the two trinkets is going to come down to live testing or simulations to give us a better idea of how much value each item is going to be worth to us. Is the ~4% multi strike damage worth ~4000 extra stats.

[Jetjaguar]

Im more curious about progression. Bindings wont necessarily give you ~4000 stats right off the bat. And while the overal proc uptime is about the same KTT's frequency of procs makes it nice for multidotting adds during progression

[Deleted]

@strmstrike: if you look at the spreadsheet I linked a couple pages ago; in full 2/2 WF gear bindings is going to give you ~2200 mastery (iirc) and frees up ~1150 in the long run.

I can definitely understand your point for KTT as well. The way I see it is this: Bindings is going to give us (passively) ~4000 stats combined which gives you a lot more options for other gear slots and generally just makes it so you can whore more mastery.

I'd have to say overall though the fight between the two trinkets is going to come down to live testing or simulations to give us a better idea of how much value each item is going to be worth to us. Is the ~4% multi strike damage worth ~4000 extra stats.

Yeah agree it's hard to tell. Even simulation won't really help, because almost all fights have adds / AoE which means single target sims are not that accurate. And it will take ages to get enough log results from players with heroic KTT + (especially heroic) BBoY vs hc Bindings + hc BBoY, even more so if you are assuming full WF 2/2.

For that reason I think it's important to discuss this, because it's the best way we have to determine what's better before progress is over. Obviously it won't matter to most people, as they won't have BBoY plus KTT heroic plus Bindings heroic.