Next WoW expansion "Leak"

[miffy23]

I can see your points, but that doesn't change the fact that my points are still relevant.

I never said I was debunking it, I was pointing out inconsistencies and saying why it was not LIKELY to be real. I never said any of these things were 100% or even implied it.

I'm not claiming it's true either, I just don't think any of your points prove it's fake.

1, if they didn't work for Blizzard, how would they know this information? Information of this sort always comes from within the company.
Relatives, friends, family? Quite frankly, for a company like Blizzard with that kind of audience size, it's a small miracle they let as little information out as they do. I don't think anyone actually working at Blizzard would leak anything anonymously, IF someone actually catches wind it's 2nd or 3rd hand information, that is also why these kinds of leaks, when they turn out to be somewhat accurate later on, are usually only half true or less, since it's just the development stage and nothing detailed is known anyway.

2. It was heavily implied that the person was saying they were the same person from previous years; "here we go again" and stating knowledge of the previous leaks implies (though obviously does not outright state) that he/she is the same person.
Could just as well be anyone. Again, I just don't think examining if this is the same person or not has anything to do with it, I don't think it matters at all. Just look at the information/speculation itself, and judge that.

3. No, it is not all that likely. No other lore group has gotten three expansions in a row with a major part to play as a villain. Again, not impossible, but unlikely.
I still don'T see your point here. The Zandalari have been around the whole time, just like many other lore groups such as the Twilight's cultists, the Burning Legion, the Old Gods in general,and many more. They've been in some dungeon or raid tier every expansion, and their story is far from over. If anything I would say it's very believable that we finally get to deal with Zul himself and the actual kingdom (or what's left of it) of Zandalar, it's an open end. And it's not like the expansion will focus on them (neither did any of the previous ones).

4. Minor characters I can understand, for example Garona. A character who was barely mentioned in one RPG book - and Blizzard OUTRIGHT STATED WILL NOT BECOME CANON - I cannot. twitter.com/Loreology/status/357271492943290368
Again, this could be so many things - first off I never take Blizzard's word for statements like that. Things change a lot in development and in story writing, in happened before and will happen again. Retcons are standard practice with such a huge universe. Also, it could just be the source misinterpreting information or from a way earlier development stage.

5. One of the slightly more believable things, I'll admit, but so far all the mounts we've had have been something we can, well, mount.
If it is indeed a South Seas expansion, I think it's a no-brainer that we'll get some forms of aquatic mounts. Submarines maybe even, stuff like that. Not a stretch at all, pretty straightforward if you ask me.

6. Doesn't change the fact that him coming back with no explanation or prior hints is odd.
The "leak" doesn'T give any story background, or what is happening lorewise during the zones. It's not a product description, it's a 2nd or 3rd hand relegating of information at a development stage, at BEST, IF it's a leak and not just speculation. If such an event happened i'm sure it would be set up in a nice quest line with cutscenes.

7. Zul isn't evil. He's a prophet who saved his people and happens to want to control the world. He's a power-hungry dick, sure, but far from evil. In any case, if he were a servant of the Old Gods, would not some reference have been made when he was so close to Lei Shen - and by proxy Ra-Den, one of the Titan's Watchers? Or the Engine of Nalak'Sha? Or any of the Titan tech?
Zul has had far to little exposure to be sure of his motivations, all that is clear so far is that he is an antagonist. In the context of the information presented, it makes sense. Other than that the verdict is out and who knows what will happen with Zul and the Zandalari, I for one think they're pretty obvious candidates for Old God corruption due to their age, their location and actions. They're just not a Twilight cult screaming Old God names and waving tentacles (yet).

8. Did you not read Stormrage? It clearly states that Malfurion was the one who found the Rift of Aln, and that Malfurion and Tyrande sealed it off. Alone. The Emerald were not involved in that act whatsoever. They had already lost the Dream and would have been eradicated were it not for Malfurion. The point is, it's a lore point that this person should have known about if they really were getting a leak but they didn't.
Granted I remembered that incorrectly, you'Re right here. However the "leak" doesn't really make a mistake of any kind tho, just says the Flight lost it's powers, which is true. And that would make the Dream more unstable and open to N'zoth, I would say, especially seeing as Malfurion and Tyrande are sort of involved in goings-on above. Hmm that reminds me...we've seen Tyrande in SoO, but not Malfurion...wonder where he is...

9.It was placed after Heroic Blackfathom. And it was labeled "Heroic" specifically. That heavily implies that it is a Heroic version of an existing instance. There is no reason to think otherwise.
Once more, probably 2nd or 3rd hand information at best. I highly doubt that if this is pure speculation, in light of how well thought out most of it is, that the speculater would make THAT kind of mistake if he/she wanted it to seem authentic. It could very easily just be a dungeon situated IN AZJOL-NERUB THE ZONE. Azjol-nerub is the entire zone, again, it's pure coincidence that the dungeon itself in WotLK was called that. You could just as well have had them call Zul'farrak "Tanaris Dungeon" in development and you'd be just as confused now. I think the interpretation is that it's a new version of the old heroic dungeon, especially being mentioned after Blackfathom. I think this is wrong and it'S what I just mentioned above.

10. Uh, how would Ozumat manage to get inside Nespirah? And barring that, it doesn't make sense to send us into the middle of an unrelated, lower-level zone to get into a raid, especially a zone that Blizzard knows nobody likes.
"One of the Elemental Plane's domains, a vast ocean known as the Abyssal Maw, is home to the water elementals." Where did you get the idea that the Maw is INSIDE Nespirah, a creature we were already inside of during questing besides? I think you're confusing some element there. The Maw is the elemental plane of water, similar to the Firelands or the Throne of Four Winds. It's also one of the reasons why many were/are still looking forward to it. Vash'jr is a love/hate thing, i personally loved it to pieces. However, going to the Maw does not imply that we'Re "playing through an old zone". IF there is a Deep Sea themed zone and expansion again, you can of course bet there will be many phases, changes and cutscenes and you will not be spending your time in a Cata zone...It's like saying that because we datamined that we'll be starting the quest to GET to Vash'jr in Orgrimmar Harbor, it sucks that Blizzard forces us to do this old zone that noone likes, Durotar :P

11. They aren't speculated. This is a supposed leak. These are supposed to be facts that are confirmed by an insider.
Noone ever claimed that, that's your interpretation. Just because an anonymous person opens the post with a suggestive sentence, doesn't make it so. Hook, like and sinker i'd say. I just treat this as very good speculation myself, that I happen to find very likely. If it turns out later most of this was spot on, you'll have an answer.

12. They have said that character models are 25% done overall, and seeing as they have working orc models that implies that at the very least orcs are complete and other races are well on their way. 6-7 months or so is at LEAST enough to finish one race if not more.
It may very well be, but I don't take a unique finished model as indication that the entire race is done. Does it mean they have some work done on it? Ofc...but that doesn't mean there's a big fat "done" mark on it. Neither of us really know. And this doesn't contradict the "leak" at all. It claims sub-races, which would tbh pretty much explain the 25% statement if they are working on that many customizations of each reworked race. All in all that would mean a ton more new character models than one new race, and pretty much change the face of WoW ingame. I for one would be very excited for this, but i'm taking it with a grain of salt.


As for Abyssal Maw being shelved, I know it's not canceled. That's not the point. He is positioning Abyssal Maw as an entry raid, and since Blizzard has just confirmed they are not working on Maw at this moment in time, it is extremely unlikely for Maw to be the entry raid to an expansion coming out in (probably) 6-7 months.
The Maw was already worked on majorly before Cata release, the groundwork is most definitely done on this raid. It's not like they're going back to the drawing board on this one, the core concepts, designs are there and they most likely wouldn't have to invest as much time as other raids to reactivate it. If we see a South Sea expansion, we will see the Maw, i'm sure of it.

- - - Updated - - -

Blah: It is now that I've done research and Blizz stated that said character would not become canon.

I still don't see anything in this bundle of info that would definitely rule it out. Some things seem a bit off or strange, but that could very well just be because of lack of information and context, and due to the development stage. For crying out loud previous expansions had features cancelled just before release when it was already common hyped knowledge (aerial combat anyone? Azjol-Nerub ZONE, etc). The one thing Blizzard changed since then is that they are VERY careful with letting out the details of their plans until they solidify, so as not to cause a ruckus like that again. They want to present a polished concept and direction that doesn'T deviate much from the finished product, and even then there are no guarantees. So don't be too sceptical when you hear strange things IF they actually ARE leaked during development stage. It's a process of throwing ideas at a wall and seeing what sticks, and of many iterations. "Subject to change", as it were.

I think the one thing that makes this especially credible is the lack of a new race or class. If we go South Seas, tehre will be no new race to add. Please don'T start with Naga, maybe it will happen but I doubt it. It would be the first INHERENTLY EVIL race we play, besides the issues of the only monopedal race. Also, class balance during MoP finally reached a stage (in PVE, mind you), that is acceptable for most, inspite of the minority whining. No class is severely OP, no class is useless or getting excluded. I highly doubt they will add a new class or something as silly as a 4th spec (get real people) to throw all that out. So I think that makes it very credible.

Whether it turns out true or not, it's very good work to compile this if it's just prediction, very believable and requires quite some work to make it sound so.

Edit:
Would also like to add this:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Abyssal_Maw
"Unfortunately for those looking forward to the release of Abyssal Maw in some patch of Cataclysm, (it didn't come to pass in 4.1, so people came to expect it in 4.2 alongside Firelands; that didn't happen either), Blizzard's Cory Stockton announced that they were shelving Abyssal Maw indefinitely, as it did not fit in with the storyline of the Cataclysm patch cycle. This announcement was part of the 30-minute BlizzCon 2011: World of Warcraft Dungeon and Raids Panel Q&A. Stockton went on to say that since they had moved on from the Cataclysm story at the time of the Panel, that they would likely not return to the idea of an Abyssal Maw raid in future patches. " (future CATA patches)
Why was it shelved? Because it led to the story of Neptulon's weapon, the object of power that Azshara and N'zoth is after, which controls the seas. When the naga make their appearance as a major player, they will do so with control of the seas due to controlling Neptulon via Ozumat, and thereby his weapon and power over the tides. The Cataclysm opened up this opportunity for Azshara, and she will soon make her move. The reason they did not delve into this during Cataclysm is that it did not fit into the ongoing storyline that finally led to the Dragon Soul. It would have distracted too much and pointed at Azshara as a major threat. They were planning to involve her more and tease here, probably she and the naga would have appeared during the raid. However since at some point they decided on Mists next, it would have been ill placed, and they shelved it until the time was right. Which will be the South Seas/Azshara expansion.

[Suntzu]

Im surprised to discover that a lot of this 'leak' actually seems plausible. Normally I am very skeptical of this sort of thing; if its a hoax (which Im not ruling out) its a well-crafted one, although there are a few places where it strains credibility.

>Spelling, grammar, flow etc.

Plausible; Its not official patch notes, these are hand-typed by some guy in his own words and not a copy-paste of a design document, because logically such a document wont exist yet, not in anywhere near so condensed a form.

>Expansion title & theme

Already known before this 'leak' so that counts against its plausibility unfortunately... if the leak had been made prior to the discovery of 'The Dark Below' trademark registration it would have been much more convincing. The theme of this expansion seems to fit well with the title however so I give it some points there.

>Levels 90-100

Plausible; the new heirloom weapons from SoO in 5.4 specify that they operate in this level range.

>Antagonists include Azshara, N'zoth, Kvaldir, Zandalari

It fits the tone of this expansion but for me its kind of a red flag because these guys are well-established in lore and consequently get brought up in hoaxes all the time, so essentially Im calling this one 'possible' but also 'too obvious'.

>Kul Tiras

Again this zone is a favourite subject for hoaxes so it, along with the mention of Jaina's apparently non-canonical 2nd brother raise suspicions. That being said it fits the tone of this expansion and the lore is fluid enough for Blizzard to give Jaina more brothers if its convenient... its not like this sort of thing is unprecedented.

>Warchief Lor'Themar

Plausible; I wouldnt be surprised at all if this comes true, I think Lor'Themar is the most solid candidate for warchief following his appearances in 5.1 > 5.2.

>Various Zones

Plausible; there seem like there are a lot of them, but really only 1 more than in both Cata & MoP which is fair considering its a 10 level expansion not just a 5.

>Dungeons

Again these are a little obvious, Im sure any lore nerd could make a list that seemed equally plausible. Heroic Azjul Nerub is kind of a strange inclusion, but anything is possible including an update of a WotLK dungeon I suppose

>Raids

Plausible; the Abyssal Maw got shelved for Cata but not binned, Blizzard never said never because they just dont.

>Battlegrounds

DOTA isnt mentioned on the list in this thread, however the pastebin link I saw from the other thread did mention it and some people are saying it was confirmed as shelved or canceled at some point, but IDK because they didnt provide citations and again, making predictions about what Blizzard will NOT do is a real sucker's game.

>Path of the Titans

Again this is an old cancelled feature that is being resurrected for this feature list and it detracts somewhat from the overall plausibility.

>Various NOs

Gotta love the dumb comments from people who didnt read the 'no'. That said it still doesnt tell us anything we didnt already know... I personally think it detracts from the overall plausibility of this 'leak' since it demonstrates a lack of imagination.


My overall conclusion:

Its a well crafted piece of fiction; very plausible in places because it is quite conservative in its list of features, but ultimately I think this serves as its undoing because the entire thing is nothing that a fan well versed in the lore of WoW could not fabricate.
The zones, the theme and how it all ties together makes it sound quite compelling; like an expansion myself (and many others) would like to play... sadly it just doesnt grab me as 'Blizzard creative' enough to be the real deal.
That said, its impossible to say that this 'leak' is definitely a hoax either; mainly because its impossible to tell how complete a feature list this is... it could be 95% accurate and merely missing a bunch of features still in development that would increase its plausibility many-fold. It is also impossible for us to say with certainty that any feature, however implausible it sounds, could not happen; Blizzard has done it many times before, including the integration of features that have been considered and shelved for a while before being finally made a reality. Hell, I remember the forum speculation over BC back in the day; 'uncorrupted Draenei' as the alliance race? it sounded like a work of pure fan-made bullshit but I saw it 'spoiled', and I wouldnt believe a word of it until the official announcement weeks later.

So yeah, it was an entertaining read but not totally convincing either way. I would still like to see links to the author's supposed 'confirmed leaks' of past expansions some people keep saying existed, to verify for myself how accurate his leaks really were, because all Ive seen linked so far is that fake MoP leak that the author (a different guy) admitted to being a fake on the thread it was posted in anyway (again good reading comprehension anyone who failed to pick this point up :P ).

[Dhomeli]

I think an expansion that combines the Emerald Dream, Nagas, and Old Gods in this way would be better than any expansion that would only cover one of those 3.

[JeeroyLenkins]

New system: PATH OF THE TITANS
An account wide progression system where all characters on one account earn “Titanic Experience” that increases progression for all characters on the account in the new system. Sharing perks such as mounts at level 10 and +10% honour points in battlegrounds it allows players to enjoy the game on any character without feeling like they are being hindered too much by changing character.
Milestones will also include cosmetic gear, rare cosmetic glyphs and booster packs for Blizzards Hearthstone digital CCG

Wow, if this is true then I have no respect for Blizzard anymore. The entire idea is lifted straight from SWTOR's Legacy system.

True or not I like the thought of the Titantic Experience or whatever. I'd love to see that.

It wasn't anything special in SWTOR, and I doubt it'll be anything special in WoW either.

[ryonavin]

Wow, if this is true then I have no respect for Blizzard anymore. The entire idea is lifted straight from SWTOR's Legacy system.



It wasn't anything special in SWTOR, and I doubt it'll be anything special in WoW either.

You realize Blizzard does this all the time right? They've taken features from Rift, Everquest, and various other MMOs. Their own spin on legacy would be a good addition if only for the shared reputation alone.

[Xargoth6634]

You realize Blizzard does this all the time right? They've taken features from Rift, Everquest, and various other MMOs. Their own spin on legacy would be a good addition if only for the shared reputation alone.

Wasn't Path supposed to be released with Wrath at launch but got shelved, which would mean it predates ToR by a few years? Jeeroy, if you're going to fanboi hard at least get your facts straight.

[Cooper]

Wasn't Path supposed to be released with Wrath at launch but got shelved, which would mean it predates ToR by a few years? Jeeroy, if you're going to fanboi hard at least get your facts straight.

Path of the Titans was supposed to be a system of character progression while at level cap when it was first announced. It had nothing to do with alts or legacies or anything like TOR's system.

[twh]

Sounds like a direct sequel to Cataclysm. Yuck.

[miffy23]

Wow, if this is true then I have no respect for Blizzard anymore. The entire idea is lifted straight from SWTOR's Legacy system.



It wasn't anything special in SWTOR, and I doubt it'll be anything special in WoW either.

You do realize that games like SWTOR, but most especially that particular one copied most of WoW's gameplay nearly 1:1? It's basically the same game with different graphics and more dialogue, in terms of UI, skill design, combat and pve/pvp content. Like many other games before and after it.

But yeah, really no respect for any dev team that actually stays uptodate and tries to implement good ideas into their game *shakes head in disgust*

[Worgoblin]

Wow, if this is true then I have no respect for Blizzard anymore. The entire idea is lifted straight from SWTOR's Legacy system.

Don't worry, it's not true. This "leak" is from the same guy that said Pandaren would NOT be playable in MoP.

[Ceethemage]

Don't worry, it's not true. This "leak" is from the same guy that said Pandaren would NOT be playable in MoP.

Which is funny because they were originally going to be playable back in burning crusade.

[SinAscendant]

Once again, I never said it was ruled out. I said that these many inconsistencies make it unlikely to be true.

Not going to spend all that time replying to all those again since most of them are really moot points, but on a blog post during Cata they stated that Abyssal Maw was set inside Nespirah and was a 3-boss instance. It was more than likely meant to be a dungeon.

us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/4519250/Cataclysm_Post_Mortem_--_Greg_%E2%80%9CGhostcrawler%E2%80%9D_Street-3_7_2012#blog

3 bosses that were reused models and no unique assets. They would have to rebuild it from the ground up to be a raid, and there is no reason they'd name it the same thing (and in fact Blizz tries to avoid that so people won't have this kind of discussion.)

Honestly, that and the lore inconsistencies are the things I have a big problem with.

[themightysven]

.003/10
Also there already is Heroic Azjol-Nerub, it's called Heroic Azjol-Nerub

[DeltrusDisc]

Omg. PLEASE!!!

This would be amazing...

[Caerule]

Well they made updated versions of instances before. So far it's only been done for dungeons for which no HC version existed yet. But I don't think that's a reason not to use an dungeon again, when it fits the current lore, and can be used to suit their needs again. They've shown several times that they love it when they can do this, became they get new current content, without having to make a whole new dungeon, which is long and hard.

So I don't think the "HC Azjob-Nerub" thing is cause for dismissal. Making a level 100 version makes sense, if we're dealing with the spider kingdom again.

[Kaleredar]

Don't worry, it's not true. This "leak" is from the same guy that said Pandaren would NOT be playable in MoP.

And that a major plot point of Mists of Pandaria would be Kul'tiras, and the naga and kvaldir would invade, and the Alliance would be able to play as Arrakoa.

You know, just the little stuff.


The guy was and is just trolling to get people whipped up about stuff that he pulled out of his ass.

[Flaks]

I think an expansion that combines the Emerald Dream, Nagas, and Old Gods in this way would be better than any expansion that would only cover one of those 3.

I agree.

I would also hope such an expansion would have some CoT or a few quests/questlines that would really draw out Azshara's character out for us in game. Having N'zoth in the background as well would be great and could pseudo develop him in a similar way to Yogg-Saron in Storm Peaks. The ideas have a ridiculous amount of potential that honestly have me debating if I would still really prefer a Legion expansion.

[Gnarsht6699]

im willing to bet anything that NO WAY will there be 10 levels, as again we will have 5lvls so they can drag expacs out with 1/2 content for the same price as tbc/wolk

According to Beta for 5.4 Garrosh drops BoA weapons that go from lvl 90-100

[Deleted]

Sounds like a direct sequel to Cataclysm. Yuck.

Hmm, it does indeed sound a bit like Cataclysm, that actually gives the list some credibility. Given how badly recieved Cata was, its no surprise they decided to throw MoP inbetween these two. Then again, im not convinced they would go down the road of spread out zones ever again since it was suggested to be one of the main faults of Cataclysm.

[tusker]

Some of this seems kinda neat... the webway seems really cool. However in general the entire thing seems really shallow. Not nearly enough new gameplay things. Though I understand if this were to be true, it wouldn't be all of what the expansion would provide.

And if that is Path of the Titans, it sounds terrible.... seems like guild leveling perks but for your own personal account, which imo is just shallow and uninspired. There's all sorts of little improvements this expansion needs to make... like dealing with old raid content, bag space, improved mail and auction house, more guild features, another "farm" type area like what's in Halfhill, customizable mounts... or anything improving class diversity/talents.

Also, fact is... if (and a big if, here) there are actually no new races or classes in the expansion, Blizzard would have to compensate for it in some other way. That's normally how they operate anyway. Their dev time would be shifted from not having to create new classes/races to doing something else. Maybe they factor that into the new race models/animations? Dunno... but a new race/class is normally a big draw for an expansion, so lack of them would mean there would be some other "big" announcement or feature.