View Poll Results: Would you accept Lor'themar Theron as your Warchief

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822. You may not vote on this poll
  • I think Lor'themar Theron would make a fine Warchief. He's got my vote!

    307 37.35%
  • I'd be okay with it. Not the worst candidate.

    191 23.24%
  • I'm neutral on it. Don't care much either way, or am willing to let it slide, no worries.

    91 11.07%
  • No, I personally would not want him as Warchief.

    148 18.00%
  • This would be the worst decision ever! My rage will be felt on this!

    85 10.34%
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  1. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    It is not outside the realm the possibility that it will come to be known that in fact Lor'Themar and Alliance came to an understanding that the blood elves cannot leave the horde but that they can LEAD the Horde, and that this would be in the best interest of the entire world.
    how is handing control of an organization to the group that just had its chance to leave them taken away from it "in the best interest of the entire world". heck it's not even in the best interest of the alliance because jaina STILL has sunreavers imprisoned in dalaran and lor'themar is, hopefully, not stupid enough to think that just dropping things will make her not snap again.
    ...at this point it's almost guaranteed that "war in warcraft" is garrosh getting on his incompetent podium to declare yet another group his enemy for the crime of breathing his air, alliance saying this is horde favoritism, and the more....special....yes.. let's go with special... horde players seeing garrosh as a god because he lets them attack the alliance players who keep saying that out being led by a moron is horde favoritism.

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by Psiclonus View Post
    Would Blizzard making Lor'Themar warchief and basically sending a big "F U" to Horde players be considered the epic fist-pump moment for Alliance players?
    Alliance have had their fist pump moment, and you hardly speak for the horde players. Based on the sentiment in this thread, you're one of the few who has an issue with Lor'themar being warchief. Speak for yourself or not at all.

  3. #323
    Merely a Setback Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    It's not the problem of leaving the Horde, it's leaving the Horde to join the Alliance.
    You can't survive in Azeroth without friends.
    And what third party should he join?
    Joining the Burning Legion is Orc and Kaldorei-territory.

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    Maybe so, but war makes for a more interesting plot than peace, and orcs are the heart of the Horde, much as humans are the heart of the Alliance. I do not want peace between the factions, and neither should anybody else. It would completely destroy the story.
    As I stated to someone else, speak for yourself or not at all. I'm personally sick of the war. I'm fine with the story moving on. I'm not afraid of change or stuck in mental loophole where the story is only good if it's orc v human until the end of time. Did you play MoP at all? If not I'll let you in on a big secret. The legion is returning, you'll get plenty of war. Also, there's a lot more factions out there than just the horde and alliance. If this game were meant to be OvH we wouldn't have other big bads like Arthas or Deathwing or Kil'Jaeden or Sarg down the road etc.

  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    You can't survive in Azeroth without friends.
    And what third party should he join?
    Joining the Burning Legion is Orc and Kaldorei-territory.
    The winds of rebellion were already up when he decided to join the Alliance. Working up with Sylvanas to deal with the Kor'kron and then support his allies on Kalimdor was the other choice he had. The choice that he took after being forced to.

  6. #326
    Brewmaster draganid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    It is not outside the realm the possibility that it will come to be known that in fact Lor'Themar and Alliance came to an understanding that the blood elves cannot leave the horde but that they can LEAD the Horde, and that this would be in the best interest of the entire world.
    this is what i meant, lorthemar realized that peace between alliance and horde is whats best for his people and that switching sides still leaves them as enemies of the horde. by being in charge of the horde with varians support, he is essentially varians puppet in charge of the horde.

    happy yet alliance?

  7. #327
    Stood in the Fire tinyninja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    The winds of rebellion were already up when he decided to join the Alliance. Working up with Sylvanas to deal with the Kor'kron and then support his allies on Kalimdor was the other choice he had. The choice that he took after being forced to.
    Actually the rebellion was nothing but empty threats at that point and the soon to be rebel leader was assumed to be dead for the first half of the expansion. When Vol'jin actually starts the revolution, it's made clear that Lor'themar was ready to fully support him after cleaning up the Isle of Thunder.

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by razorfire View Post
    this thread is still going on? ok I'll just throw out some counterpoints to this, most of the "good reasons" stated have already been countered multiple times
    No they really haven't. In fact most of your counter points have been blasted out of the water time and time again, and most of your points apply to any potential candiate.

    similar reasonings could be given for any other candidate for warchief along with a much more notable connection to the horde and overall show of loyalty than lor'themar who has, despite the cries that it somehow makes him better, been THE most open to cutting and running until the option was taken from him. he did not choose to directly oppose garrosh until there were no alternatives left that wouldn't result in getting completely annihilated.
    Yeah cause Vo'jin never had thoughts of ditching the horde.

    in regards to your point of him showing great leadership this expansion...yes...he showed capable leadership for the FIRST TIME in his entire showing as a racial leader, until now every one of his big decisions is the result of other racial leaders pressuring him into action because he's too scared of messing up to do anything.
    Which is the fault of the devs. Just like Rexxar was supposed to be scene in the Barrens patch, he got cut. Don't blame the character for what the devs can squeeze in, or not. Sylvanas has been mostly absent this xp, that's not her fault, that's the fault of the devs.

    As for the 'too scared' comment, you want to make points, make factual points. If you can't make a point without bashing him, you already lost.

    what you don't do if you want to keep a sane and organized group is put someone who only just got the ability to manage their OWN followers to suddenly have power over ALL the members of the group. and further down in your second paragraph...anyone who's chosen to be warchief could tell sylvanas "no, don't do that" it's a matter of if they're actually willing to make sure she doesn't or not. and really she wouldn't have used it quite as much if not forced into so many engagements by garrosh that were, without it, suicide runs (and even then the potency of it is routinely lowered due to orders not to use the same strain as the wrath gate).
    Lor'themar has been leading the Blood Elves since TBC. He may not have been in the spot light until now, but he's been leading them.

    Where in the game is it said she only uses it because she was pushed by Garrosh? And sure anyone could tell her not to, it's a matter of who she'll listen to. Again, fail argument because it applies to ANYONE. This argument doesn't state why Lor'themar SPECIFICALLY is not fit to lead.

    and now to comment on the most commonly used defense against people saying it shouldn't be lor'themar... people are pulling the race card, and no I don't mean "HE'S A BLOODELF HE SHOULDN'T LEAD" cause personally if he were an orc I still wouldn't want him to lead given the lore I know about him, not until he's had a lot more time to prove he's going to KEEP his confidence and actually make sound decisions, that kind of rush to put someone in charge is how garrosh got too much power. but what I mean is the argument of "HE'S A BLOODELF, THE HORDE SHOULD GET WITH THE TIMES AND ACCEPT HIM AS LEADER!" how is accepting the person that a specific group likes as leader "getting with the times" any more than selecting a leader from any other race. why does it NEED to be a bloodelf to be "the smart thing for blizzard to do".
    Capitalization, punctuation and breaking points into more appropriate paragraphs makes my eyes bleed less and as such able to have a discussion with you easier.

    Again, you're hold a real world problem (how and when the devs decide to put him into the spotlight) against who the character is. Thrall was untested and he did fine... at least until he made Garrosh warchief. So again your argument fails. The only other warchief we've had was a compeltely untested pup who at the end of his career put the worst possible person in charge of the Horde. Lor'themar couldn't do much worse than that.

    vol'jin has been with the horde since before the tauren joined and aided in most of its more important times and has never decided to try and join the alliance.
    I fail to see the point here. Vol'jin has never been a fan of the alliance (in fact his original ptr text had him speaking down to the alliance during the barrens stuff). You also assume he saw going to the alliance as an option. Who's to say that if in the past his trolls and the alliance had been allies, he wouldn't have thought about it? He thought about leaving the horde and I argue he only didn't go to the alliance because he doesn't like them and knew they'd just as soon kill his people as allow them into the alliance. You're making comparisons where they don't exist because your argument assumes both men had the same options available, they didn't. The elves were once part of the alliance, the trolls never were.

    baine grew up watching his father lead, helped take a large portion of organizing the rebellion, and has a connection to horde heroes such as rexxar.
    So this automatically means he's a better potential leader than Lor'themar who has connections with um... the alliance. I'd take a guy who can peace-talk with the alliance over some hybrid who has had very little to no character growth in this entire game.

    If you want to use Lor'themars lack of spotlight moments as a point against him, don't use knowing Rexxar as a point in favor of anyone. Lor'themar has had more time in the spotlight than Rexxar, so again another failed argument.

    thrall STARTED the new horde and has proven his ability to lead (and despite what people say about him being peaceful he has proven his ability to beat down an enemy when needed).
    Yes and as I already stated, was a nobody until he was made someone by leading the horde, and he also made the single largest mistake in the history of the Azerothian horde.

    saurfang has had more active diplomatic ties with the alliance than lor'themar has, he lead a group offensive of ALL the races against an'qiraj, and he's not likely to go and start a war over nothing. so please, tell me, why should your cries of "it needs to be lor'themar, it needs to be a bloodelf" be any more valid than "it shouldn't be lor'themar or a bloodelf"
    But Saur is still an orc, and his people were never actually part OF the alliance. Dying beside them against the orcs.

    I don't argue it has to be Lor'themar simply based on race. If you go back and look at my posts, I've listed specific reason why he should and the only time his race has come up as a factor is simply because his people were once part of the alliance.

    Simply stating he should/shouldn't for no other reason than his race is personal preference and nothing more. It's like saying Obama never should have been elected or should have been elected because he has african heritage. It's about who the man is, not what genes make him up.

    So again, most of your 'good reasons why he shouldn't' have been countered multiple times.

    Looking forward to your next post where you argue the same points that could apply to any of the potential leaders and still fail to argue:

    WHY LOR'THEMAR SPECIFICALLY SHOULD NOT BE WARCHIEF

    Because so far, you've failed at doing that.

  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by tinyninja View Post
    Actually the rebellion was nothing but empty threats at that point and the soon to be rebel leader was assumed to be dead for the first half of the expansion. When Vol'jin actually starts the revolution, it's made clear that Lor'themar was ready to fully support him after cleaning up the Isle of Thunder.
    The winds of rebellion actually started in Tides of War. The Razor Hill Reunion was the first rebellious act.

  10. #330
    Stood in the Fire tinyninja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    The winds of rebellion actually started in Tides of War. The Razor Hill Reunion was the first rebellious act.
    What the hell are "winds of rebellion" and why are you throwing this term around like it means something important? It means nothing but intent but until it's actually acted upon there is no rebellion.

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by tinyninja View Post
    What the hell are "winds of rebellion" and why are you throwing this term around like it means something important? It means nothing but intent but until it's actually acted upon there is no rebellion.
    Talking against the current regime, planning to act against it is "winds of rebellion". The thought of rebellion within the Horde didn't started overnight with Vol'jin's assassination attempt. The attempt was actually to stop such action.

  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    The winds of rebellion actually started in Tides of War. The Razor Hill Reunion was the first rebellious act.
    You mean meeting in an inn, saying well this sucked we should have done it differently. They were displeased and talked indeed, but it didn't cross their minds to overthrow Garrosh. Lor'themar and Sylvanas acted more rebellious in that book than Vol'jin and Baine for the mere fact, that they did not show up as Garrosh had demanded.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  13. #333
    I'd prefer Dezco.

    If you're quiting send me your gold.
    For The AllianceFor The Horde

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    You mean meeting in an inn, saying well this sucked we should have done it differently. They were displeased and talked indeed, but it didn't cross their minds to overthrow Garrosh. Lor'themar and Sylvanas acted more rebellious in that book than Vol'jin and Baine for the mere fact, that they did not show up as Garrosh had demanded.
    Exactly. Like I said, Lor'themar and Sylvanas could deal with the Kor'kron in Undercity and then move on to support the Kalimdor rebels. But, by joining the Alliance, he would even left his true ally, the Forsaken, alone.

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    Exactly. Like I said, Lor'themar and Sylvanas could deal with the Kor'kron in Undercity and then move on to support the Kalimdor rebels. But, by joining the Alliance, he would even left his true ally, the Forsaken, alone.
    The relations between forsaken and blood elven leadership is strained to say the least, he chose a path that would ensure the minimum amount of casualties among his people, he tried several times to reign Garrosh in, but that ultimately failed and left him little choice but to consider old allegiances.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  16. #336
    Stood in the Fire tinyninja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    Exactly. Like I said, Lor'themar and Sylvanas could deal with the Kor'kron in Undercity and then move on to support the Kalimdor rebels. But, by joining the Alliance, he would even left his true ally, the Forsaken, alone.
    This is exactly what they do in game, but until 5.3 there was NO rebellion. Lor'themar and Sylvanas aren't sending their people for "winds of rebellion". If they went at the time you wanted them to they would have shown up and what, meet up with the rebel forces that don't exist yet?

  17. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    Exactly. Like I said, Lor'themar and Sylvanas could deal with the Kor'kron in Undercity and then move on to support the Kalimdor rebels. But, by joining the Alliance, he would even left his true ally, the Forsaken, alone.
    Were there actually any rebels at that time though? By moving against the Kor'kron in UC it would have been an open act of rebellion that would have left the Forsaken and Blood Elves potentially vulnerable with no allies. Vol'jins forces were being held captive by the Kor'kron in their own town etc.

    To me it just felt like the air of rebellion was growing the whole time, but they were moving slowly. The whole quest chain to me felt like they were biding their time. Maybe I'm reading more into it bu that's how it came off to me.

  18. #338
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    Exactly. Like I said, Lor'themar and Sylvanas could deal with the Kor'kron in Undercity and then move on to support the Kalimdor rebels. But, by joining the Alliance, he would even left his true ally, the Forsaken, alone.
    also if he left the horde to join the alliance, he would have a very pissed Foresaken cutting him off from his new allies.

    Yeah the relationship between the BElfs and the Foresaken are strained but not insoluable. The fact is they have more in common with each other than any other pairing of horde races could be said to have.

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    The relations between forsaken and blood elven leadership is strained to say the least, he chose a path that would ensure the minimum amount of casualties among his people, he tried several times to reign Garrosh in, but that ultimately failed and left him little choice but to consider old allegiances.
    Which is why I can't see someone that quickly throws his allies under the bus that fast as Warchief. They would become enemies if the Purge didn't happened.

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuntzii View Post
    No they really haven't. In fact most of your counter points have been blasted out of the water time and time again, and most of your points apply to any potential candiate.



    Yeah cause Vo'jin never had thoughts of ditching the horde.



    Which is the fault of the devs. Just like Rexxar was supposed to be scene in the Barrens patch, he got cut. Don't blame the character for what the devs can squeeze in, or not. Sylvanas has been mostly absent this xp, that's not her fault, that's the fault of the devs.

    As for the 'too scared' comment, you want to make points, make factual points. If you can't make a point without bashing him, you already lost.



    Lor'themar has been leading the Blood Elves since TBC. He may not have been in the spot light until now, but he's been leading them.

    Where in the game is it said she only uses it because she was pushed by Garrosh? And sure anyone could tell her not to, it's a matter of who she'll listen to. Again, fail argument because it applies to ANYONE. This argument doesn't state why Lor'themar SPECIFICALLY is not fit to lead.



    Capitalization, punctuation and breaking points into more appropriate paragraphs makes my eyes bleed less and as such able to have a discussion with you easier.

    Again, you're hold a real world problem (how and when the devs decide to put him into the spotlight) against who the character is. Thrall was untested and he did fine... at least until he made Garrosh warchief. So again your argument fails. The only other warchief we've had was a compeltely untested pup who at the end of his career put the worst possible person in charge of the Horde. Lor'themar couldn't do much worse than that.



    I fail to see the point here. Vol'jin has never been a fan of the alliance (in fact his original ptr text had him speaking down to the alliance during the barrens stuff). You also assume he saw going to the alliance as an option. Who's to say that if in the past his trolls and the alliance had been allies, he wouldn't have thought about it? He thought about leaving the horde and I argue he only didn't go to the alliance because he doesn't like them and knew they'd just as soon kill his people as allow them into the alliance. You're making comparisons where they don't exist because your argument assumes both men had the same options available, they didn't. The elves were once part of the alliance, the trolls never were.



    So this automatically means he's a better potential leader than Lor'themar who has connections with um... the alliance. I'd take a guy who can peace-talk with the alliance over some hybrid who has had very little to no character growth in this entire game.

    If you want to use Lor'themars lack of spotlight moments as a point against him, don't use knowing Rexxar as a point in favor of anyone. Lor'themar has had more time in the spotlight than Rexxar, so again another failed argument.



    Yes and as I already stated, was a nobody until he was made someone by leading the horde, and he also made the single largest mistake in the history of the Azerothian horde.



    But Saur is still an orc, and his people were never actually part OF the alliance. Dying beside them against the orcs.

    I don't argue it has to be Lor'themar simply based on race. If you go back and look at my posts, I've listed specific reason why he should and the only time his race has come up as a factor is simply because his people were once part of the alliance.

    Simply stating he should/shouldn't for no other reason than his race is personal preference and nothing more. It's like saying Obama never should have been elected or should have been elected because he has african heritage. It's about who the man is, not what genes make him up.

    So again, most of your 'good reasons why he shouldn't' have been countered multiple times.

    Looking forward to your next post where you argue the same points that could apply to any of the potential leaders and still fail to argue:

    WHY LOR'THEMAR SPECIFICALLY SHOULD NOT BE WARCHIEF

    Because so far, you've failed at doing that.
    you simply ignoring or denying every point that isn't saying your favorite character isn't the perfect decision you're pushing for him to be is not the same as not having given valid points. and most of the counterpoints haven't been "blown out of the water" they've been met with what equates to "well..hey look at this other thing that I think makes him look good!" vol'jin may have had thoughts of leaving, but unlike lor'themar he never acted on them. if not for the dalaran purge he WOULD have left to join the alliance without even having looked to the rest of the horde for aid. on the "blame the devs" they've had plenty of time to show him and when they finally did THAT'S when all of the love for him spontaneously came into being. you don't think he was "scared to act" go look at his leader short story, even going to northrend is a decision that's made for him by sylvanas.

    lor'themar has had a dedicated council helping him manage things around silvermoon consisting mostly of the decision making and support of romath and halduron, he has otherwise, from what's shown, been simply following whatever sylvanas or garrosh say. and I never said sylvanas would ONLY use it because of garrosh forcing her into fights, I'm saying she wouldn't use it AS MUCH. gilneas was a fight she was forced into by garrosh, that is the largest use of plague we actually see in game aside from the unexplained circumstances of southshore, and she uses it there because garrosh managed to screw up the initial assault so badly she had to in order to keep an advantage. also if you're going to make a comment based on my punctuation and way of typing in an attempt to discredit me, let me help you out. [email protected][email protected]%[email protected]!%[email protected]^!^$#^.

    so...you're saying no to vol'jin because your speculation on what ifs...and you're saying that unless someone is the bestest of friends with the alliance there can't be peace... right.. you then try to discredit baine who has about as much good leadership of his people as lor'themar has shown for the same reason you say I can't shoot down lor'themar. read lord of the clans then look into the amount of time between when thrall started leading all the orcs of the new horde and when he actually gained the support and friendship of the trolls and tauren..unlike lor'themar he didn't get from competent leader to leader of an entire major faction instantly like people want. and your dismissal of saurfang is yet again just saying "he's not bestest friends with the alliance, somehow that means he can't get peace with the alliance without having been a member of the alliance"


    saying a race was or was not part of the alliance shouldn't impact their ability to not declare war like idiotic children, that's simply personal decisions and goals. and yes I agree with you no leader should be chosen or denied based on race, but that's part of my annoyance with this sudden "lor'themar for warchief" push. people seem to be pushing lor'themar more simply because he is a member of the most "alliance like" of the horde races (and no I don't say that meaning he should be in the alliance, they have good reasons not to be in the alliance), claims that the bloodelves should come to the forefront are almost all backed up by saying the horde needs to advance or "we have enough orcs vs humans".

    yes I get that you think I'm arguing the same points and that you think none of them have any negative effect towards lor'themar, I understand that. but. JUST BECAUSE YOU LIKE A CHARACTER DOES NOT MEAN YOU SHOULD IGNORE THE NEGATIVE PARTS OF THEIR STORY! IGNORING THAT LOR'THEMAR ACTIVELY PLANNED TO ABANDON THE HORDE, THAT HE, MUCH LIKE GARROSH, WOULD BE PUSHED TO LEADERSHIP DIRECTLY AFTER A LONGSTANDING LACK OF CONFIDENCE, AND THAT HE DIDN'T EVEN WANT HIS OWN OFFICE BUT IS SUPPOSEDLY MEANT TO ACCEPT BEING WARCHIEF IS IDIOTIC.

    but don't worry, I suspect somehow you will continue to ignore all points against him as ineffective but swear up and down your own arguments in his favor make him the best candidate ever.
    ...at this point it's almost guaranteed that "war in warcraft" is garrosh getting on his incompetent podium to declare yet another group his enemy for the crime of breathing his air, alliance saying this is horde favoritism, and the more....special....yes.. let's go with special... horde players seeing garrosh as a god because he lets them attack the alliance players who keep saying that out being led by a moron is horde favoritism.

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