Lore Interview with Dave Kosak

[FreePies]

did anyone else notice he said the dragon aspects have been alive for 40k years?

[KrazyK923]

Uh, Garrosh is my leader. He's the leader of the orcs, and leader of the horde. And the last time I checked, the alliance is getting a title that involves conquering the horde capital city. That's fucking huge. Horde doesn't have "Conqueror of Southshore" let alone "Conqueror of Stormwind". Yet, the forums are going to rain with QQ once 5.4 hits.

This is such a shallow "reward" that the fact you even count it is kind of a joke. Its a bone thrown to the Alliance players to say "SEE! YOU ACTUALLY DID MATTER! GRATS!"

[Deleted]

did anyone else notice he said the dragon aspects have been alive for 40k years?

The last number we had was 65, but the RPG books are non-canon, so...

[KrazyK923]

Sounded like he said "fifty" to me.

[OrcsRLame]

Which is precisely why I made my post about the "strawman". People tend to use it wrongly and on this thread was the example of it.

You didn't pay one lick of attention did you?

Moon Blade said this. "No, really? Like I said, you do the exact same thing, one side gets you a conqueror title, the other side gets you a liberator title. Conquest and liberation are completely different things so how is the Alliance conquering a city that the Horde is liberating?"

Callei responded to that saying, "The Alliance win. That the rebels go to them for help at all should give you a very good idea about how far up shit creek they would be otherwise. Full stop, Vol'jin even owns up to it if you challenge him on it. The Alliance get the 'Conqueror of Orgrimmar' title because they used the rebellion to minimize their own losses, kill the Warchief, wipe out the Kor'kron loyalists, and put the rebels in a position where they have to play ball with the Alliance in choosing the next Warchief. Really, dude, stop and think about what Kosak said here and the way he said it: the Alliance allow the Horde to pick a Warchief who will work with them.

The rebels get the Liberator title because that's what they're doing--they're liberating Orgrimmar from Hellscream's tyranny. The only disconnect here is from people who want half the playerbase to have to spend like three months ingame in a prison cell or something because ermagerd our characters actually aren't all that picky with who our employers are so long as the pay's good."

Moon Blade is person C in my example. He/she did not in any way mention putting Horde players in prison cells, then Callei mentioned the bolded. An argument was misrepresented. The misrepresentation was attacked. It doesn't matter if somebody other than Moon Blade said that at some point in the history of these forums, because Moon Blade did not make the claim and that's who Callei was responding to when making the bolded comment.

Really, I don't know what I can't believe more; the fact that I'm taking the time to explain basic fundamentals of debating, or that you still don't get it.

[But I Hate You All]

Soo is the ally fist pumping moment......REALLY?



wow

[Gorefiend1]

Did any1 notice when he asked about Alleria and Turalyon how he "kinda" hinted at the Twisting nether? By saying something: this part of the lore has just been waiting in the nether

[apepi]

Did any1 notice when he asked about Alleria and Turalyon how he "kinda" hinted at the Twisting nether? By saying something: this part of the lore has just been waiting in the nether

Yeah, I thought that too.

[Talen]

You weren't there to experience stopping Garrosh's plans in 5.1?

It took a dev interview to "confirm" that was the actual resolution.

[You weren't there to experience kicking the BElves out of Dalaran?

The Alliance players attacked a few shopkeepers and imprisoned a few BElfs and their families.
The Horde got to stage a jailbreak.

Maybe you didn't see the Horde completely dissolving, and only got a tease of the Alliance coming together.

I saw the Horde dissolve. The Alliance "coming together"? Not so much. Whats different now as opposed to...Vanilla?

You don't get to experience marching into Orgrimmar, taking an enemy capital, killing every orc in sight, killing the Warchief, then allowing the Horde to pick a successor that the Alliance can work with?

Not really pumped for it as Alliance. Because I know that the next step is Varian doing an Andorhal

"We won. Great. Lets pretend we lost and retreat". I can hope Blizzard does something they've rarely done before and surprise us with an actual explanation that makes sense.

EJL

[Deleted]

A part of the story waiting out there

Out there in the

Nether

OUT THERE IN THE DARK BELOW
OUT THERE IN THE TWISTING NETHER

[Sky High]

so Kosak is telling the allies to take a chill pill? damn I can only imagine the amount of QQ that's going to generate. he does list all the things the allies accomplish in MoP, I guess its a matter of perspective.

[ruinshin]

Uh, Garrosh is my leader. He's the leader of the orcs, and leader of the horde. And the last time I checked, the alliance is getting a title that involves conquering the horde capital city. That's fucking huge. Horde doesn't have "Conqueror of Southshore" let alone "Conqueror of Stormwind". Yet, the forums are going to rain with QQ once 5.4 hits.

Nope.

Garrosh is the leader of the Orcs who follow him. You are not one of them.

They and he are a new faction. The True Horde.

[Deleted]

Nope.

Garrosh is the leader of the Orcs who follow him. You are not one of them.

They and he are a new faction. The True Horde.

i dunno i felt it was more like the other races being kicked out to form their own group and Garrosh being left with the remnants of the Horde which he just re-named

thats what some alliance players dont get, they think theyre helping the Horde faction liberate Orgrimmar from a tyrant with his own faction

when in reality its the Alliance players going in full force with a glorious armada to take down any Horde still standing, and let a bunch of disgruntled rebels who arent really part of the Horde anymore do what they want with the leftovers

[ruinshin]

i dunno i felt it was more like the other races being kicked out to form their own group and Garrosh being left with the remnants of the Horde

thats what some alliance players dont get, they think theyre helping the Horde faction liberate Orgrimmar from a tyrant with his own faction

when in reality its the Alliance players going in full force with a glorious armada to take down any Horde still standing, and let a bunch of disgruntled rebels do what they want with the leftovers

Except it's not. It's the Orcs, not even all of the Orcs, able to hold off the Alliance, and they need the rebels to pull it off.

The entire expansion, the short stories, everything, is built up to show the Alliance can't beat the Horde.....unless the Horde split.

But, beyond that, what many Horde players (and Blizzard) don't seem to understand is it doesn't matter who wins.

We have no attachment to the Alliance factions. The races have been marginalized, the developers have called racial leaders incompetent, a demi-god said the same leader isn't fit to lead, the Dwarves were made a joke, Varian "High King" happened off screen with no explanation, and Stormwind and humanity dominate the story, yet get no lore themselves.

We are, sans a few minor things, in the exact same place we were in Wrath of the Lich King.. And I'm not even joking, because Varian was Supreme Allied Commander (which is, apparently the same fucking thing as High King because why the fuck not give Varian the job twice?) in Wrath, the races were largely marginalized.

We have no story. What story hooks we do have are stripped away (For fucks sake, they just said Elune uses the fucking light), the faction has no identity, the races don't have any flavor, and when our "story" does progress, it's done in the "Well, guys, this happened but you don't see it" method.

Winning isn't the problem. Winning was never the problem. Taking shots at the Alliance fanbase because they are not happy isnt' helping, ESPECIALLY when the things they do to try and "fix" the problem are repeatedly said to NOT BE THE FUCKING PROBLEM!.

It's so fucking bad that when we get our "feedback" read back to us it's like.. totally not what was said.

As in... "Players don't like espionage quests" is what they took out of Alliance players feeling jipped when they got a robo cat instead of a voiced raid on a town with major heros.

[Deleted]

Except it's not. It's the Orcs, not even all of the Orcs, able to hold off the Alliance, and they need the rebels to pull it off.

The entire expansion, the short stories, everything, is built up to show the Alliance can't beat the Horde.....unless the Horde split.

But, beyond that, what many Horde players (and Blizzard) don't seem to understand is it doesn't matter who wins.

We have no attachment to the Alliance factions. The races have been marginalized, the developers have called racial leaders incompetent, a demi-god said the same leader isn't fit to lead, the Dwarves were made a joke, Varian "High King" happened off screen with no explanation, and Stormwind and humanity dominate the story, yet get no lore themselves.

We are, sans a few minor things, in the exact same place we were in Wrath of the Lich King.. And I'm not even joking, because Varian was Supreme Allied Commander (which is, apparently the same fucking thing as High King because why the fuck not give Varian the job twice?) in Wrath, the races were largely marginalized.

We have no story. What story hooks we do have are stripped away (For fucks sake, they just said Elune uses the fucking light), the faction has no identity, the races don't have any flavor, and when our "story" does progress, it's done in the "Well, guys, this happened but you don't see it" method.

Winning isn't the problem. Winning was never the problem. Taking shots at the Alliance fanbase because they are not happy isnt' helping, ESPECIALLY when the things they do to try and "fix" the problem are repeatedly said to NOT BE THE FUCKING PROBLEM!.

It's so fucking bad that when we get our "feedback" read back to us it's like.. totally not what was said.

As in... "Players don't like espionage quests" is what they took out of Alliance players feeling jipped when they got a robo cat instead of a voiced raid on a town with major heros.

i think what alliance gets to do is cool on pen and paper, but they need better character development and coverage

their heroes arent expanded enough and theres not that depth and real feeling of any different cogs in the machine that all need to work together
jaina was done great
varian has been made into a cool leader
anduin has been given nice coverage

but its just humans, theres not really a focus being shown on an actual "Alliance" except two scenarios

Maybe theres some Night Elves in there as well

[Arbs]

Sure, learning about raid mechanics and new dailies is great for some people, but the only thing that matters to me is the story.
Let's get super nerdy with Dave Kosak, Lead Quest designer, and ask him the important questions :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osB0_0G5N8g

Topics include:

5.4:
Are you still happy with announcing Garrosh's defeat as early as you did?
Metzen mentioned at launch that this expansion was the build up to the war - is this still the case and bigger conflict is coming? Or is this the actual war now?
Alliance fist pump moment - it was promised - what is it?
What is the moment (in your mind) when Garrosh "becomes a bad guy", seems like he just did all the sudden?
What important orcs are left now since most are dead? Will we see any of them return (wink wink)?
Why leave Sylvannas out of the main story line? Is it like Rhonin in Cata? Just couldn't fit him in?
Why are the Klaxxi joining Garrosh?

Random:
Which came first? Old Gods or Titans?
Where is Dalaran? where is it going?
What are the Naaru up to?
And Draenei - they getting some story soon?
Will we ever seen the Dragon Aspects again?
Is there anything below Tirisfal? (This is the final answer on this question guys)
Where are the following people? Will we see them soon?
Gallywix?
Rexxar?
Me'dan?
Magatha Grimtotem?
Bolvar?
Alleria and Turalyon?

Thank you again Jesse .

[Deleted]

Except it's not. It's the Orcs, not even all of the Orcs, able to hold off the Alliance, and they need the rebels to pull it off.

The entire expansion, the short stories, everything, is built up to show the Alliance can't beat the Horde.....unless the Horde split.

But, beyond that, what many Horde players (and Blizzard) don't seem to understand is it doesn't matter who wins.

We have no attachment to the Alliance factions. The races have been marginalized, the developers have called racial leaders incompetent, a demi-god said the same leader isn't fit to lead, the Dwarves were made a joke, Varian "High King" happened off screen with no explanation, and Stormwind and humanity dominate the story, yet get no lore themselves.

We are, sans a few minor things, in the exact same place we were in Wrath of the Lich King.. And I'm not even joking, because Varian was Supreme Allied Commander (which is, apparently the same fucking thing as High King because why the fuck not give Varian the job twice?) in Wrath, the races were largely marginalized.

We have no story. What story hooks we do have are stripped away (For fucks sake, they just said Elune uses the fucking light), the faction has no identity, the races don't have any flavor, and when our "story" does progress, it's done in the "Well, guys, this happened but you don't see it" method.

Winning isn't the problem. Winning was never the problem. Taking shots at the Alliance fanbase because they are not happy isnt' helping, ESPECIALLY when the things they do to try and "fix" the problem are repeatedly said to NOT BE THE FUCKING PROBLEM!.

It's so fucking bad that when we get our "feedback" read back to us it's like.. totally not what was said.

As in... "Players don't like espionage quests" is what they took out of Alliance players feeling jipped when they got a robo cat instead of a voiced raid on a town with major heros.

i think what alliance gets to do is cool on pen and paper, but they need better character development and coverage

their heroes arent expanded enough and theres not that depth and real feeling of any different cogs in the machine that all need to work together
jaina was done great
varian has been made into a cool leader
anduin has been given nice coverage

but its just humans, theres not really a focus being shown on an actual "Alliance" except two scenarios

Maybe theres some Night Elves in there as well

Meanwhile in 5.1 we saw Lor'themar gets HUUUUGE coverage and the Belves expanded lore
We saw Baine and his stance on things expand a bit
We saw a huuuuuge step for Vol'jin
Sylvanas was given all her development in Wotlk and Cata
Garrosh, Thrall, Saurfang, nuff said
Gallywix is the only leader not given any coverage, but the Goblins are given TONS of time in the spotlight

As for the Alliance
Varian, Jaina, Anduin, all well done
Tyrande, seeing hot-headed Tyrande again was cool, still didnt see much
Council of Three Hammers, Moira gets coverage, im happy with any lore coverage but...Moira..? They ignored the MUCH needed Bronzebeard coverage of Muradin and gave it to...Moira? I sound so spoilt when I say this but, does anybody actually care about Moira..?
Velen, nope
Mekkatorque, appearing in a short cameo
Greymane, lol

[Roshar]

A really good interview (yay lore!) and the accompanying art/video clips were awesome as well. Enjoyed it thoroughly.

[Paula Deen]

I will ask the same thing I asked on the interview. Why can we phase Theramore to "further the story" but not Dalaran, Ashenvale, or the Barrens. Really. Should also add, I am not mad at all, I don't care for the fist pump moment at all (if Varian gets crowned High King thats enough for me) but it is an honest question.

[Kathranis]

Sad to hear about the Tirisfal part and actually using it in the future would be like "Hey, look what we pulled out of our asses" and this is what basically ends the "below Tirisfal" thing.

Well, everything is ultimately pulled out of their asses. Leaving unexplored story hooks is a key to writing good ongoing fiction, it's just that writers usually don't explain the dirty secret that they didn't actually plan everything from the start, so people see the connections to past story hooks and assume the writers are geniuses who always had it all figured out.

If you ever write a novel series, just remember to leave breadcrumbs here and there. Vague, named characters. Mentionings of locations. Bits of history. When you need a new story hook further down the line, instead of coming up with something new, take one of those ideas you'd already seeded and develop it out. Almost nobody will realize that you're pulling it out of your ass.