Lore Interview with Dave Kosak

[Yarathir]

Except where I pointed out examples of posts from that group of people...

And clearly Alliance are second-class costumers based on the frustration Kosak feels in trying to appease certain Alliance fans after giving them so many victories... But the people I pointed out wouldn't be happy until the Horde is destroyed.

You quoted his post, linked his "don't want to go beyond this" to your "obviously want to see the Horde burning and no longer being a playable faction" bullshit.



We're basically bordering on the definition of strawmanning here.

[KrazyK923]

And you just zero in on Talen's posts? What about all the other people who posted that these things should happen? Annihilating certain Horde factions, Bad Horde destroying Good Horde, imposing ridiculous restrictions, having the Horde be under Alliance administration, deporting the orcs to Outland, etc. They're pissed off that they won't happen because "lol game," can't destroy the game for half the players.

"The Alliances goal should be nothing less than total and complete annihilation of the Forsaken."
What am I misrepresenting?

Once again, you're totally ignoring the difference between what a faction should do from both a consistent, in-game, position and what somebody as a player wants. The difference is supremely important because it isn't what he wants to happen, its what the Alliance as an actual factual body would want if it was real.

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Then after KrazyK tried to whitewash the Alliance fanbase by pretending those people didn't exist, I pointed directly to examples of such extremist viewpoints.

I did, did I?

I'm pretty sure I blatantly said they existed. Hint: the next sentence is where I said other Alliance players point out how stupid your ridiculous argument of "Alliance players want the Horde faction gone" is.

[Combatbutler]

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You guys are moving in circles, can't you find some common ground and actually discuss the lore, or do you intend to bicker, which side has most biased posters, which in itself is rather pointless, since both sides are about equal if they have something to bitch about.

[KrazyK923]

But...I never argued the Horde had the most biased posters...

I do agree with you about going in circles, though.

[Aquamonkey]

Once again, you're totally ignoring the difference between what a faction should do from both a consistent, in-game, position and what somebody as a player wants. The difference is supremely important because it isn't what he wants to happen, its what the Alliance as an actual factual body would want if it was real.

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I did, did I?

I'm pretty sure I blatantly said they existed. Hint: the next sentence is where I said other Alliance players point out how stupid your ridiculous argument of "Alliance players want the Horde faction gone" is.

"But, no, keep on arguing against the nonexistent position that the Alliance is demanding we completely destroy Orgrimmar and piss all over the ashes or we won't stop complaining."

[KrazyK923]

Alright, grats, YOU GOT ME!

Posts after that also have me changing that statement as well, but don't let that dissuade you.

[Combatbutler]

Guys please back on topic

[KrazyK923]

I'm not sure what else we can say about Kosak's answers. None of them are really surprising, and a few are actually angering (Such as the exclusion of the Dalaran scene).

I am happy that Magatha's story isn't ultimately done, even if we don't see her probably anytime soon. I always loved her story and was disappointed she didn't reappear after the huge cliffhanger of getting the Doomstone and disappearing in Thousand Needles.

I actually had thought she was the female Tauren we heard about in DS before more details emerged and was pretty excited. Then it was randominsertnpcnamehere.

[Combatbutler]

I'm not sure what else we can say about Kosak's answers. None of them are really surprising, and a few are actually angering (Such as the exclusion of the Dalaran scene).

The Old God and titan stuff for example, it was rather interesting, he said there were some hints in the material we already have, so a bit speculation might be in order ;P

[Aquamonkey]

The Old God and titan stuff for example, it was rather interesting, he said there were some hints in the material we already have, so a bit speculation might be in order ;P

There's already another thread on that. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ods-are-Titans

[KrazyK923]

There's already another thread on that. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ods-are-Titans

I don't know why, but I really like the idea behind this, even if has like no basis in current lore. I say the underlined having not read any parts of the thread but the title.

[Combatbutler]

I don't know why, but I really like the idea behind this, even if has like no basis in current lore. I say the underlined having not read any parts of the thread but the title.

Would be fun if the old gods are in fact a titan creation, which went totally haywire, and started spreading across the cosmos like a disease.

[Wewlad]

How can we be excited for these Alliance "victories" when Blizzard won't bother to even recognize that without in-game implementation it's rather unsubstantiated.

[blackblade]

A victory confined to a raid instance while the Horde's shit is encountered 24/7 in every zone they revamped in Cata. Nothing in the world changes. Horde's eyesores and invasion forces are still lingering in zones they don't belong in and will forever. No Alliance quests exist anywhere to at least have them phased out forever. Victories shouldn't be confined to books, raid instances and assumptions from quest arcs ending. Dynamic content should be faction linked in instances where it matters. Or have Horde quest arcs in Ashenvale be rebuilding after all the shit they caused in Cata. Something like that. It's clearly asking too much. So BFD about the Siege of Orgrimmar. It's not even a Horde capital at the time, it's Hellscream's capital. It's not different from killing Illidan in the Black Temple or downing the Lich King at this point.

See, but you're missing the point.

If the alliance triumphed over the horde in every single zone, you'd pity the horde, think they were weak.

If the horde starts winning, you're supposed to feel that animosity towards them. The fact that you're here complaining about it only reinforces their storytelling is effective.

[Aquamonkey]

Would be fun if the old gods are in fact a titan creation, which went totally haywire, and started spreading across the cosmos like a disease.

The Old God's ambitions aren't too dissimilar from Sargeras.
A'dal: One in particular, a servant of the Old Gods known as Harbinger Skyriss, seeks to usher in his masters' vision of conquering all of the worlds in the universe.
And then all the chaos they wreak on the worlds they conquer.

And if the Old Gods are Titan creations, it might explain their confidence in facing the Legion.
Harbinger Skyriss: It is a small matter to control the mind of the weak... for I bear allegiance to powers untouched by time, unmoved by fate. No force on this world or beyond harbors the strength to bend our knee... not even the mighty Legion!
We span the universe, as countless as the stars!

Also, how they knew exactly how to corrupt Titan constructs on Azeroth.

[KrazyK923]

See, but you're missing the point.

If the alliance triumphed over the horde in every single zone, you'd pity the horde, think they were weak.

If the horde starts winning, you're supposed to feel that animosity towards them. The fact that you're here complaining about it only reinforces their storytelling is effective.

Except when the Alliance wins, its largely delegated to out of game instances. That is the shit we're pissed off at.

[Combatbutler]

I am happy that Magatha's story isn't ultimately done, even if we don't see her probably anytime soon. I always loved her story and was disappointed she didn't reappear after the huge cliffhanger of getting the Doomstone and disappearing in Thousand Needles.

I actually had thought she was the female Tauren we heard about in DS before more details emerged and was pretty excited. Then it was randominsertnpcnamehere.

Yeah Magatha has a lot of potential, the Grimmtotem in general have still quite some potential, who knows what they come up with and now that they are armed with high graded alliance weaponry they have become even more dangerous

How can we be excited for these Alliance "victories" when Blizzard won't bother to even recognize that without in-game implementation it's rather unsubstantiated.

Seriously, this thread was somewhat constructive for 5 posts 5!!!!!!!!

You people will be the death of me.

[theturn]

They should at the very least have an alliance occupation in Orgimar after 5.4. Kind of like the US in Germany and Japan after WW2. Could make for some interesting story lines next expansion.

[El_Diabl0]

And you just zero in on Talen's posts? What about all the other people who posted that these things should happen? Annihilating certain Horde factions, Bad Horde destroying Good Horde, imposing ridiculous restrictions, having the Horde be under Alliance administration, deporting the orcs to Outland, etc. They're pissed off that they won't happen because "lol game," can't destroy the game for half the players.

"The Alliances goal should be nothing less than total and complete annihilation of the Forsaken."
What am I misrepresenting?

I'm a Horde players myself and I want the Alliance to push the Forsaken out of Lordaeron and retake it. But "annihilation" on the hands of the Alliance is extremely unlikely.

[Aquamonkey]

They should at the very least have an alliance occupation in Orgimar after 5.4. Kind of like the US in Germany and Japan after WW2. Could make for some interesting story lines next expansion.

A full occupation would probably be a bit much. Especially since the Alliance is supposedly approving of the Horde's new Warchief as someone they can work with. Maybe have a few guards around like what Thrall posted in UC after Wrathgate. But they would have to be non-combat or it would destroy world PvP.