On the topic of 8 piece tier

[Deleted]

I realise developers have stated they do not wish to implement 8 piece bonuses because it wouldn't leave any choice as to which non-set to use.

The thing is however that currently tokens are very much a hassle in specially 10mans with only 1 dropping per boss and usually 3+ people wanting that same token because there's only 1 token they can pass to get 4piece.

So I thought why not re-implement 8 piece tier but keep it at a 4piece bonus. That way you can better split your raidgroups token and there won't be as much competition once you finally see your first conqueror head token drop 3months into the patch?

This is obviously not something for 5.4 but perhaps 6.0 since that'll leave room to changes.

I also feel tokens in 10mans are really screwing the loottables (specially considering the immense size of these) with only 1 item dropping outside of tokens on the token-dropping bosses. So perhaps you could (both in 10 and 25) go back to the previous version of having tokens not take up a regular loot drop?

Any thoughts on why I'm an idiot for thinking this could be a good idea or perhaps modifications you think would fit?

[AlisonPrime]

I would like it if they did something kinda like the end tier of BC. It was an 8 piece set, but only a 4 piece bonus. This actually OPENS up more armor choices than it limits. For example, as a Death Knight. I don't like half my pieces of tier of my Tier 14 set (then again...4 piece is crap) but I want my set bonuses. Wow the Shoulders have expertise and mastery...take those, those are good oh there is a belt piece i can use....etc etc

The only problems with 8 piece tier sets is that...well.... if there was only a 4 piece bonus, then you run into the problem of raiders bitching "we're forced to go back and farm heroic content for my old Tier tokens....we need that double 4 piece to take down Gay-rash Bitch Cream"

However another option they could open up is the idea of having 8 tokens, but 3 set bonuses (2, 4, and 6) and you can pick and choose which are your BIS, and the 6 piece bonus is insanely good

[Deleted]

Perhaps make it a 5 piece then so that it can't be abused in pvp either?

[velde046]

I'm not convinced that it's either a token or loot, I think they are separate. Even if you get a token you still have chance on loot. What tokens do you mean? Maybe I'm looking at it wrong?

[Thiron]

5 piece would still mean ability to combine 2+5 from different tiers.
The different tier combination leading to extra bonuses is the biggest problem with having more than 5 pieces in set. To combat it, you would need to raise number of pieces needed for bonus as much as total number of tier pieces. And that will be even worse than now.

[Deleted]

I'm not convinced that it's either a token or loot, I think they are separate. Even if you get a token you still have chance on loot. What tokens do you mean? Maybe I'm looking at it wrong?

The bosses that drop a tier token in todays raid environment only drop 1 regular item + 1 token. They used to drop 2 regular items + 1 token. with 1 token + 1 item. chances are very slim of seeing an item you want from that boss drop.

5 piece would still mean ability to combine 2+5 from different tiers.
The different tier combination leading to extra bonuses is the biggest problem with having more than 5 pieces in set. To combat it, you would need to raise number of pieces needed for bonus as much as total number of tier pieces. And that will be even worse than now.

Perhaps a system that merged tiers together with the highest item level bonuses activating; but different tiers can't activate a bonus together ( say using 3p t16 + 1p t15 will only give you 2p t16 - using 2p t15 & 2p t16 will give you both those 2 bonuses > but using 2p t15 + 4p t16 will only give you 2 & 4p t16, 2p t15 will be deactivated?)

[Thiron]

Perhaps a system that merged tiers together with the highest item level bonuses activating; but different tiers can't activate a bonus together ( say using 3p t16 + 1p t15 will only give you 2p t16 - using 2p t15 & 2p t16 will give you both those 2 bonuses > but using 2p t15 + 4p t16 will only give you 2 & 4p t16, 2p t15 will be deactivated?)

That could work, but will be somewhat confusing. Basically, new gear will "turn off" old bonus, and that feels weird.

[Deleted]

That could work, but will be somewhat confusing. Basically, new gear will "turn off" old bonus, and that feels weird.

Just think it would be good for the game. It would/could ease up the 10man loot issues that many guilds are faced with,

[Utinil]

Personally, I wish Blizzard would remove reforging and make the ilvl difference between tiers much lower if they were going to do this. I enjoyed the 8 piece bonuses in Vanilla. As a Priest, I remember wearing 2 piece ZG set bonus and 5 piece T2 even though I could have had 8 piece T2. You had options. The Nax system with 9 pieces in a tier but bonus capping at 8 was also nice for mixing around set bonuses.

[Tomec]

I think a good way to balance it would with going back to 8 pieces would actually be to make the second bonus be at 5 pieces. I know that means you need an extra piece, which some people wont like, but that prevents the mixing 4/8 from 2 tiers as you now could only get 3 pieces from the other. You'd still have the freedom of choice from more set pieces, which is the "point" of 8 pieces. Also, though you could still get a 2/4 (or 5) bonus from another tier... can't you do that now if you wanted or it was a big gain? So that wouldn't change.

[Deleted]

I think a good way to balance it would with going back to 8 pieces would actually be to make the second bonus be at 5 pieces. I know that means you need an extra piece, which some people wont like, but that prevents the mixing 4/8 from 2 tiers as you now could only get 3 pieces from the other. You'd still have the freedom of choice from more set pieces, which is the "point" of 8 pieces. Also, though you could still get a 2/4 (or 5) bonus from another tier... can't you do that now if you wanted or it was a big gain? So that wouldn't change.

Aye. The ability to choose which set pieces to use is something I really think is missing. What's the point of having 5 tier items if you can only skip one to obtain the set bonuses. might as well have made it all 5 then.

It'll make a lot more loot viable since people can choose which pieces to go with and which off-set items to go with. Which I think the whole thunder/warforged thing is good for since you can't really have a 'bis' list since you can't plan around getting items thunderforged etc.

[Tomec]

Aye. The ability to choose which set pieces to use is something I really think is missing. What's the point of having 5 tier items if you can only skip one to obtain the set bonuses. might as well have made it all 5 then.

Maybe something to do with trying to balance the amount of loot dropping and needing 5 rather than 4? I mean as it stands currently people are "complaining" about having to get 4, how's it going to be if they did all 5? That said, I still think that going 2 and 5 for an 8 piece makes sense.

Granted, Having a 4 piece and 2 piece (rather than 2 2pieces) could be more powerful, but that's something Blizzard could balance in many ways. Like maybe the loss of stats from not using current tier offset the bonuses and make it 6 of 1, half dozen of another. Or just keep past tiers in mind when making new ones and try to prevent interplay between two back to back tiers. So like tier 16 2 piece wouldn't be beneficial to the 17 bonuses, but 16 and 18 could because of the large ilvl difference.

It'll make a lot more loot viable since people can choose which pieces to go with and which off-set items to go with.

Well, in a sense you may actually have the opposite happen. Granted off-set could be like bought with points, but if you only have X number of possible drops from a boss, if you have more set pieces you're going to lose some of the offset items to those set items. Now you'd definitely have a better chance to get set items, but once you hit 4/5... what then for the other slots? Points? Drops as "problematic" as the tier is now in a sense? Hard to say, and certainly something people will go both ways on.

[Deleted]

Make tokens drop seperately. So instead of 1 item + token, 2 items + token (and then just balance bosses with the extra loot in mind)?

It's just so silly how we have 1-3 of each slot that is also covered by tier and because you need 4 of the 5 items it means 4(*1-3) of those 5(*1-3) non-set items won't be used at all. With more pieces available to choose from people can go for different setups that they want to pursue (for instance if I got a heroic thunderforged helm with the right stats that might make me want to go for 4p without helm even though I was originally planning on having leggs off-set before getting a thunderforged. Now I could decide to go for helm, leggs, shoulders & gloves while my co-token-user who'd previously have gone for the same 4 as me and used non-helm could decide to go for helm, chest, bracer & boots or leggs, shoulders, boots & bracer. A lot less competition for the tokens when they finally do drop and the non-set items will se more use.

Because atm you have guilds like Nairobi's who didn't see a single conqueror chest token drop (normal nor heroic) until this week and they're multiple people after it.

[Recom]

This is a pretty good idea ! Instead of having 2 non tiers for bracers, boots and waist there could be 1 tier and 1 off tier just like it is now for the other slots.

The only downside is that people will try to maximize the itemization on the big slots like chest and legs which is not that possible now.

[Deleted]

This is a pretty good idea ! Instead of having 2 non tiers for bracers, boots and waist there could be 1 tier and 1 off tier just like it is now for the other slots.

The only downside is that people will try to maximize the itemization on the big slots like chest and legs which is not that possible now.

I think what's different now compared to previous is also the addition of thunder/warforged. Since having thunderforged boots might be ebtter than tier boots even though non-tf the tier boots + offset leggs (instead of vice-versa) would've been the way to go.

[Recom]

I think what's different now compared to previous is also the addition of thunder/warforged. Since having thunderforged boots might be ebtter than tier boots even though non-tf the tier boots + offset leggs (instead of vice-versa) would've been the way to go.

I didn't even think about that. This would further push player to pick off-tier on the big slots as soon and often as possible. We're talking about a few stats points but enough to force people to do so... Not sure GC would like that.

[Deleted]

I didn't even think about that. This would further push player to pick off-tier on the big slots as soon and often as possible. We're talking about a few stats points but enough to force people to do so... Not sure GC would like that.

Depends on the itemization of the corresponding tier items doesn't it? - > If they're pretty equal - ie. not a dodge/parry tier chest v a haste/expertise non-set for a paladin. I'd take the TF item in place of the tier I think.

[Tomec]

Depends on the itemization of the corresponding tier items doesn't it? - > If they're pretty equal - ie. not a dodge/parry tier chest v a haste/expertise non-set for a paladin. I'd take the TF item in place of the tier I think.

I think that this is important to think about/take away from all this. Most of us are assuming a sort of "ideal" thing like having equal stats or my thing with how the set bonuses interact. This may take a little more work design and number tweaking wise on Blizzard's part though, which may or more may not mean we're less likely to see this happen. But especially with them greatly increasing the size of the team working on WoW (see front page, gamescon interview) I can't imagine this would be outside the realm of possibility.

[Deleted]

I think that this is important to think about/take away from all this. Most of us are assuming a sort of "ideal" thing like having equal stats or my thing with how the set bonuses interact. This may take a little more work design and number tweaking wise on Blizzard's part though, which may or more may not mean we're less likely to see this happen. But especially with them greatly increasing the size of the team working on WoW (see front page, gamescon interview) I can't imagine this would be outside the realm of possibility.

Hopefully not since next expansion hasn't even been announced yet.

[Tomec]

Hopefully not since next expansion hasn't even been announced yet.

True, and this is probably a change that will be done in a new x-pack, not mid. Even if it was, it's likely we wont see another raid this patch... Even thought things can change, they did say SoO of would be the last patch. I personally think there will be a patch similar to 5.1 and 5.3 though given the whole "the whole story has yet to be told" thing.

I believe from launch to ToT it was about 5 months. It'll have been about 6 months with ToT when SoO hits. It was about 3 months between 5.2 and 5.3, so a small content patch to "wrap things up" would fit with that schedule. Blizzcon (a likely place to announce the next x-pack) is 2 months out from 5.4, and 4-5 months from that is (probably) a realistic time-frame for the next x-pack depending on their progress. 4-5 months lines up perfectly with the 5/6mo timeframe they seem to have set for this x-pack now.