Visions of Time: Hidden Threads, Dev Interviews, Blue Posts, Cinder Kitten Sale, Art

[Shudder]

"Upgrading player models has never been done successfully in an MMO."

There was a time, not long ago when Blizzard liked being the first to do things. Instead of just copying other mmo's and giving bull shit excuses, they actually innovated. These ghosts they're referring to that will be upset that their hair lip is gone are exactly that, ghosts. They don't exist. In fact, I'd say the majority of the population will see the new models, go "oh hey that's cool" and then never think about it again because most of the time your gear covers everything up anyways. I play zoomed out as far as I can when I raid so I don't even remember what my character looks like.

[Kryos]

"Upgrading player models has never been done successfully in an MMO."
There was a time, not long ago when Blizzard liked being the first to do things.

I play Blizzard WoW since day 1 and I ask you: When was that? Blizzard always copied old ideas and polished them until the mass market liked them.

[Daniri]

I thought the popular sentiment has always been that Blizzard doesn't innovate but rather takes what's already out there and polishes it.

[Matty710]

Yeah, no. You may have been playing EQ but you certainly weren't reading the forums then or now if you never saw the enormous drama over the model update. Not only do I think Blizzard was not ignoring EQ, but that it was the foremost example in their minds of a poorly received model update.

And note when I say poorly received I don't mean the majority hated them, but that a sizable or at least considerably vocal portion of the playerbase had a problem with it.

Yeah I'm sure your reading of a forum makes you an expert on all things Everquest.
You are still wrong.
The majority of players liked the models. A large portion of those who didn't like them simply never turned them on. Some drama on a forum isn't going to change that.
No change made to an MMO has ever made 100% of the playerbase happy. You said yourself that the majority didn't hate them. That's the definition of success in the MMO world.

Blizzard is choosing to ignore the successful implementation of new character models in order to bolster up their arguments for the delay in their own new models.

[F-Minus]

Yeah, no. You may have been playing EQ but you certainly weren't reading the forums then or now if you never saw the enormous drama over the model update. Not only do I think Blizzard was not ignoring EQ, but that it was the foremost example in their minds of a poorly received model update.

And note when I say poorly received I don't mean the majority hated them, but that a sizable or at least considerably vocal portion of the playerbase had a problem with it.

Who fucking cares really

Even in the most perfect scenario, there is going to be people who will dislike, despise & hate change or new stuff regarding the whole universe let alone a multiplayer game. I can guarantee you right here and now, that when we finally get new models, there's going to be so much trash talk about how bad they are and that everyone wants the old ones back that the official forums are going to explode.

It's been that way since forever, but the love & hate camps are about equally big, the biggest of the camps however is those who don't give a shit if there's old or new models, but would welcome a change to high fidelity, not demand it, but welcome.

[Daniri]

Yeah I'm sure your reading of a forum makes you an expert on all things Everquest.

If only we were talking about all things Everquest this might have been a worthwhile sentence. The question is whether there was backlash against updated models and don't try and change it to anything else.

On the flip side, the other half have been playing with their characters for up to seven years. Having a different skin, different eye shape, or even different body frame may perturb them. Back in 2001 Everquest launched Everquest: Shadows of Luclin which included the “Luclin models” which were a new set of character models (including armor). Many players felt that the changes were unwelcomed and ruined their game which is why players now have the ability to switch between post Luclin and pre-Luclin models in Everquest.

This is a game that over 10 years ago implemented this change and players, to this day, can be found arguing on the various message boards about which is better. Same say the blocky pre-Luclin models are far superior to the non-blocky post-Luclin models while others find the improved graphics to actually be an improvement. There is no clear victor in an argument of perception, but we can see how serious this subject is.

This is the truth. Every time there's been a discussion about updating WoW models over the years, someone invariably brings up Luclin as a cautionary tale. If you don't know that, if you haven't seen that, then you shouldn't be having this discussion. You aren't aware of the context.

[aerodragon83]

removed....

[soulinger]

This is ALL BS. Blizz just do it or shutup..stop with all the damn excuses to not do it or delay it forever......


New Player Models
•Blizzard isn't ready to show off any of the new player models yet, but hopefully will have an announcement soon.
•One of the human models was changed six years ago and there was a large uproar over how the eye blink changed.
•Changing the player model risks causing players to no longer feel attached to their character.
•Upgrading player models has never been done successfully in an MMO.

Game Engine
•The engine is about 12 or 13 years old now, but has been improved constantly.
•For a long time it was mandatory to maintain the same visual look across all hardware, but recently they have diverged from that idea, allowing the team to do some nicer things at the higher end.
•The last two expansions increased the minimum requirements on the boxes, but the team still tries to support the hardware from older minimum requirements. (WE aren't running on XP machines anymore with 32bit OS) come on....
•Switching to another existing engine wouldn't make a lot of sense, as the WoW engine has been optimized for certain things that aren't supported well (or at all) in off the shelf engines. For example, moving to an engine that used more dynamic lighting and bump mapping would also require reauthoring most of the existing textures that have been created over the years. This would take a very long time and come at the cost of new content.

- - - Updated - - -

"Upgrading player models has never been done successfully in an MMO."

There was a time, not long ago when Blizzard liked being the first to do things. Instead of just copying other mmo's and giving bull shit excuses, they actually innovated. These ghosts they're referring to that will be upset that their hair lip is gone are exactly that, ghosts. They don't exist. In fact, I'd say the majority of the population will see the new models, go "oh hey that's cool" and then never think about it again because most of the time your gear covers everything up anyways. I play zoomed out as far as I can when I raid so I don't even remember what my character looks like.

completely agree with this.

[Salech]

It's funny you mention everquest. I hated those models. Many people I played with hated them too. When I first read the interview I immediately agreed with him and thought about how terrible EQ1 did it.

If they make dramatic changes to WoW models I'm sure some would be okay with it. They might even like it more. But, we should all know that it could potentially cause many thousands of players to be upset and even cause them to quit. This may seem ridiculous, but it will happen.

It's also funny that shitloads of people actually liked them in EQ, also upsetting a few thousand players and so what?, they have 5 million + players and i bet the main part of those either A) don't give a shit and B) Casuals that just go with the flow of the game so it will not affect them anyway.

[Phurox]

Why not give players the opportunity to choose between classic and "Future" player models? Like people can choose between DX 9 and 11 for an example.

[Deleted]

Christ, how thick can you people get?
When they say models have never been updated successfully, they mean without ANY player of that game complaining about them. How hard is that to grasp? And hey, guess what, they're right. People even complained a lot about the Everquest model update, which many of you are so quick to point out. Runescape made an entire sequel to update models and not everyone loved those either.

So yes, Blizzard are correct in saying that no MMO has ever updated models successfully.
Most of you are only complaining because they mentioned they were actually doing them just before MoP went live. You'd not have batted an eyelid about the models if they hadn't mentioned them. I've seen people say they will come back to WoW for new models despite leaving the game because they hated it. Logic doesn't work well with most WoW players, current or ex.

And considering this "fan" base that WoW has, I'd want to take my sweet time to get them done right too.

Oh god I never believed that anyone can be that wrong at all. If just 1 person complains about something in WoW then the game would be a fucking failure and you know it. There won´t be anything in any game that does not cause at least a few guys to complain on the internet.

"When they say models have never been updated successfully, they mean without ANY player of that game complaining about them"

So just shut down WoW because in this case the game has been a massive failure because with every new stuff they added there were a lot of people complaining on the internet. Stuff like new tier sets, new races, new content had a ton of complaining people and every new stuff they will add in the future will be the same.

Sure if Blizz would add new models there would be a bnuch of people whining but EQ1 did that successfully because they added a feature that allowed you to choose between old and new models. That was a long time ago and you guys tell me that Blizz can´t do that in 2013 ?? I thought they were a fucking billion dollar company with a lot of great devs?

[SodiumChloride]

Except for the fact that you know. the models were toggle able.

As in they werent forced on anyone. And you had to manually toggle them on to begin with. Which is probably a far better way to do it than what blizzard will do.

OK, seriously. What's the hurry?

Sure Blizzard can put out decent ones and leave them toggle able so people won't get pissed. But why settle for that?

They are trying to make full on replacements that feel the same as the old models but are of higher quality. Why not let them try?