Why did people love TBC?

[Vargur]

Why did people love TBC? Look at this. LOOK AT IT...

What am I looking at?

[Gondlem]

That's just the whole point. When people say stupid things like SSC or TK being the best instance ever it's nostalgia because they're ignoring all things that were wrong in those places. And there was whole lot more things wrong than right in those two raids, compared to current ToT for example.

Except the quality of an expansion isn't just a list of "good things" and "bugged things", that's silly. Dragon Soul had almost no bugs and it was a terrible tier of raiding. Who cares if it wasn't buggy? Now I totally agree with you that talking about Burning Crusade as though it was perfect is completely wrong. The game is far, far more polished today than it was then. Content is mostly bug free, it's tested again and again with rigour, class balance is far closer more even than it ever has been before and so on. Blizzard overall have gotten way better at what they do over the years. I think MoP is an excellent expansion, but this stuff was even true in Cataclysm.

It doesn't follow that the game is better just because it's less buggy though. Sometimes the bugs were totally gamebreaking, like for some of the t5 bosses, but a lot of TBC was okay, and they learned as they went - Sunwell was a very good raid tier, as good as Ulduar and ToT for sure IMO. But the attraction of TBC in retrospect to me is the broad game design principles, not any individual instance or boss or whatever. Would I rather do a solid, relatively bug free tier like T11 over SSC/TK where half the bosses were broken on release, trash respawned too fast etc? Sure, maybe. But the big picture of TBC was a linear tier-to-tier progression model that made it feel like you were improving to meet the requirements of the content rather than the content being brought down to you, 5 mans that felt like real content instead of an AoE fest gear/vp farm, and so on. Pointing out that Al'ar was bugged does not invalidate those preferences.

I do think MoP is the closest they have gotten since to capturing some of that feel - stuff like challenge modes, some sense of linear progression and the sheer quality of the heroic raiding so far compared to other expansions stands it in good stead. It's the first time since TBC they've released two raid tiers in a row that I think are both good. But they got the balance right in TBC I think, I had fun as a casual player doing 5 mans and Karazhan runs and then I transitioned into raiding and enjoyed the whole expansion. I've enjoyed bits and pieces of the game since just as much - Ulduar and ToT for instance, but it's never consistently reached TBC heights again.

[johnno]

Because it was an amazing expansion during a time where the WoW-community was still intact. It felt like a real MMO, not a singleplayer RPG with multiplayer on the side.

Also, I liked the raids and the story.

I registered just so I could reply to your post ... best reply and loved your sig! Hearty /golfclap

- - - Updated - - -

That part made me laugh so hard. And most here won't even get why, that's the sad part.

I think you are the sad little individual ... and I hope you understand why.

[miffy23]

I think you are the sad little individual ... and I hope you understand why.

Proves you didn't actually read what I replied to and why it was funny

[johnno]

Proves you didn't actually read what I replied to and why it was funny

Wow, so you don't understand.

[elon]

Its simple. The end

[miffy23]

Wow, so you don't understand.

No, I don't understand why your only reason to make an account is to call me that for no real reason. Point?
Anyway, I already said i'm out of this thread, which will likely get closed at some point anyway.
So long.

[Omgarsh]

I don't like MOP that much but TBC was pretty bad. I mean, it was a HUGE improvement over classic WOW but there were still times where I was fed up with the game since it wasn't any fun for players who didn't raid 5 nights a week. And I'm not one of those kinds of raiders since I really only have weekends free.

[Deleted]

it was the vibe and the buzz I got from it....I loved it cos outlands looked awesome, the zones were amazing, the lore was cool (if a bit fucked up but I don't care tbh it was still interesting) the quests were good, the dungeons and raids were great, the whole feel and vibe of it all was just great like...

only bettered by the feel and vibe of WotLK ;p TBC and WotLK had a vibe that has never been surpassed

[Deleted]

It's nostalgia. I don't care what anyone else thinks, that's the truth. As a player since vanilla, I have to say that all of you crying bloody murder from the rooftops that any old and inferior expansion/game is better than what's out now to kindly look at the truth and accept that it's just your own preferance and what we have now is superior to the old stuff in every way.

someone - "Don't you guys miss cata?"
me - "hell fucking no. Did you forget 90% of it?"

[RickJamesLich]

I think blizz is getting a bit sloppy with MoP and Cata, even looking at Ghostcrawler's words on the front page, you can kinda sense he's disappointed with the game's direction. While the game lacked things like dual spec and interesting rotations, I'm not surprised that there's tons of people here (myself included) that thought it was way more fun.

[gee]

TBC had

10 levels
Awesome zones
16 dungeons + 16 heroics
Epics were only for those who had skill
Great raids: Karazhan, Gruul, Magtheridon, SSC, TK, Zul'Aman, BT, Sunwell
World bosses
Aldor vs Scyrers, other factions
Full realms brimming with activity
Active raid guilds and guild competition
Arenas
World PvP

[Deleted]

I started raiding in TBC, clearing BT in the last week before the Wrath expansion... I was playing with quite a few IRL friends, there was a sense of community and while the expansion was total aids in comparison to the latest, it was AMAZING for its time. I didn't really enjoy the zones. I didn't really enjoy the quests. But I damn well enjoyed the people I played with and that is why I will always consider TBC + Wrath as the most fun I've had on this game.

[RickJamesLich]

TBC had

10 levels
Awesome zones
16 dungeons + 16 heroics
Epics were only for those who had skill
Great raids: Karazhan, Gruul, Magtheridon, SSC, TK, Zul'Aman, BT, Sunwell
World bosses
Aldor vs Scyrers, other factions
Full realms brimming with activity
Active raid guilds and guild competition
Arenas
World PvP

This post is full of win

[Deleted]

TBC had

Epics were only for those who had skill

This is incredibly false.

[Deleted]

This is incredibly false.

After Sunwell release? Yeah. You're talking about a time when people with decent gear still bloody struggled with some heroics. Heroics that had a 1% chance to drop an epic at the end. Still harder than anything Wrath+

[statlerthegreat]

Its time for a lesson in opinion vs fact:

TBC had

10 levels
Awesome zones
16 dungeons + 16 heroics
Epics were only for those who had skill
Great raids: Karazhan, Gruul, Magtheridon, SSC, TK, Zul'Aman, BT, Sunwell
World bosses
Aldor vs Scyrers, other factions
Full realms brimming with activity
Active raid guilds and guild competition
Arenas
World PvP

Just about everything on this list is wrong.

The zones were terrible. Hellfire as visually nauseating as it was, still wasn't as eye searing as SMV. Netherstorm was 12 shades of purple and pink making it ugly as sin in its own right. Basically Nagrand was the only decent zone in TBC.

Epics dropped at the end of every heroic. While more difficult than the current heroics, it was still not that difficult sans 1 or 2 (Shadow Vaults was basically unpuggable on both servers I played on in TBC). Kara wasn't exactly hard to clear, Zul Aman wasn't if you were careful and not doing bear runs. Mags was easy, and if you had a warlock that could enslave demons so was Gruul. Getting full epic gear wasn't that difficult. You also had t5 grade badge epics patched in soooooo... Edit: Wasn't basically the entire loot table for MGT epic? I think it was sans the pet and orb.

World bosses exist now.

There are plenty of factions in the game and in every expansion. Or have you missed the roughly 1 million threads bitching about dailies and rep grinds?

There are full realms, brimming with activity. There are also dead realms. Just like TBC. The only reason there are more dead realms is because Blizzard expanded the number of realms.

There are more active raid guilds. And unlike TBC more guilds are achieving greater progress.

Arena still exists.

World PVP died with battle grounds. Its not because of flying mounts, its not because blizzard did something blah blah blah.. Its because the player base as a collective doesn't want to do it. Some players do. But not enough to make it happen on a consistent basis. Anyone who has a an issue with lack of world pvp needs to take it up with it's server's players. Not blizzard.


See this? This is a counter to just about everything you said. Why? Because you stated opinion. As did I. TBC was a great expansion. Its when I started playing it and in my opinion, the best the game ever was. But if they rolled everything back to TBC days, just about every single one of us who thinks that would quit. Because as much as everyone bitches, they rely on all the improvements. To a degree they don't realize. People forget what it was like before LFD trying to get a heroic done. And that doesn't even touch on things like not having to keep currency in your bags or mounts, or a whole lot of other shit everyone forgets about.

TBC was great, but at some point take off the rose colored glasses, some things are better than they were, some are worse.

[Deleted]

After Sunwell release?

No, then just as now, you didn't need skill to be in a guild that killed things, you just needed time.

[hulkgor]

Please see my replies to your bullet list. (LFR)

I salute you.

[RickJamesLich]

Its time for a lesson in opinion vs fact:



Just about everything on this list is wrong.

The zones were terrible. Hellfire as visually nauseating as it was, still wasn't as eye searing as SMV. Netherstorm was 12 shades of purple and pink making it ugly as sin in its own right. Basically Nagrand was the only decent zone in TBC.

Epics dropped at the end of every heroic. While more difficult than the current heroics, it was still not that difficult sans 1 or 2 (Shadow Vaults was basically unpuggable on both servers I played on in TBC). Kara wasn't exactly hard to clear, Zul Aman wasn't if you were careful and not doing bear runs. Mags was easy, and if you had a warlock that could enslave demons so was Gruul. Getting full epic gear wasn't that difficult. You also had t5 grade badge epics patched in soooooo... Edit: Wasn't basically the entire loot table for MGT epic? I think it was sans the pet and orb.

World bosses exist now.

There are plenty of factions in the game and in every expansion. Or have you missed the roughly 1 million threads bitching about dailies and rep grinds?

There are full realms, brimming with activity. There are also dead realms. Just like TBC. The only reason there are more dead realms is because Blizzard expanded the number of realms.

There are more active raid guilds. And unlike TBC more guilds are achieving greater progress.

Arena still exists.

World PVP died with battle grounds. Its not because of flying mounts, its not because blizzard did something blah blah blah.. Its because the player base as a collective doesn't want to do it. Some players do. But not enough to make it happen on a consistent basis. Anyone who has a an issue with lack of world pvp needs to take it up with it's server's players. Not blizzard.


See this? This is a counter to just about everything you said. Why? Because you stated opinion. As did I. TBC was a great expansion. Its when I started playing it and in my opinion, the best the game ever was. But if they rolled everything back to TBC days, just about every single one of us who thinks that would quit. Because as much as everyone bitches, they rely on all the improvements. To a degree they don't realize. People forget what it was like before LFD trying to get a heroic done. And that doesn't even touch on things like not having to keep currency in your bags or mounts, or a whole lot of other shit everyone forgets about.

TBC was great, but at some point take off the rose colored glasses, some things are better than they were, some are worse.

The zone thing is a matter of opinion, personally I think the Netherstorm is one of the most creative and interesting zones in WoW. I remember hearing about the zone before the expansion came out and it totally lived up to the hype. Nagrand has a weird mystique and beauty to it, Shadowmoon valley has that whole evil creepy thing going on with it. But I guess we'll agree to disagree.

5 man heroics dropped *one epic* sometimes at the end of the run, but you had to play smart - cc bosses, follow mechanics and such. Compare that to 5 mans now, at what point do they actually engage you? lol, you just run around and aoe stuff.

As for raids, I think MoP and BC both had good raids, can't say there's a big difference, besides LFR, which hands out free epics, and most players have to go through if they want progression. I think BC would've sucked if you had to go through a "LFR" version of black temple, where you one shot Illidan, instead of gearing up for heroics, doing previous raids, and then finally going in after Illidan. Would've killed a lot of the mystique and interest in it.

World bosses being back in is a good thing, I'll agree here.


The factions are kind of a waste of time unless you were playing avidly within the first month of the expansion. Rep grinds and valor gear are weird this expansion - if you aren't doing dailies, you aren't getting any gear despite having a lot of valor points. Seems kinda odd. Beyond that, with VP upgrades, it makes buying actual valor gear a bad idea a lot of the time, as you'd be better off in the long run buying upgrades and hoping you get a raid drop.


I think activity now vs activity then is quite different. Now it's more about getting groups together to farm old world mounts and weird stuff, whereas before you would get together for questing, world pvp, or for dungeons.


Arena still exists, but it's in a pretty watered down state at the moment (no ratings requirements on gear takes eliminates the need to play well, reducing competition), at least in BC you had to put in some work for your shoulders lol, not to mention if you had a bad rating, it'd take much longer to get gear.




I love how people say "everyone that played BC now would quit" despite the fact that many here agree BC was a blast. What kind of mentality is that? lol. There's a weird bitter resentment towards older versions of the game. Relax, some people actually had a good time. Beyond that, are you really trying to say LFD is a good thing? It almost killed off 5 mans this expansion lol. Stop with the rose colored statements too, people need to come up with something more intelligent then that already lol.