Why do people want Lordaeron back?

[minteK917]

To reclaim the Human homeland.

The forsaken are the human from that homeland..... who are you reclaiming it for? It would be like current United kingdom reclaiming Canada, United States or Australia. For who? The homeland was already reclaimed by its owners from Arthas.

Attacking Forsaken because they are hostile is one thing, thinking that its because the alliance owns the land is incorrect. The citizens of lordaeron owns the land and still do now, when ever they decided to become hostile toward the alliance. Gilneas closed its door and let its allies perish, why not just take their kingdom too?

[Verdugo]

Why? Thee are various reasons, depending on whether you are talking in game or out of game.

Why would the Alliance do so?

Because the Forsaken are treacherous scum, monsters who have shown they consider themselves bound by no treaty, capable of honoring no word or promise.

Because the Forsaken have shown themselves to be aggressive warmakers with plans to conque or Alliance territories.

Because the Forsaken have shown themselves to be aggressive users of the most foul weapons and magicks

Because, despite the popular notion, a good chunk of Lordaeranians did survive the Scourge and ae being sheltered by the Alliance

Because the Alliance owes Lordaeran a debt for what it did in the Second War when it sheltered Stormwinds survivors until the
kingdom was restored.

Because Lordaeran was a founding member of the Alliance and so is of cultural and historical importance to the Alliance

Because the Forsaken are necromantic constructs, magical prisons housing the very souls of their friends, their families, their allies, their countrymen and those souls need to be freed from damnation so they can journey to the Light

Because the Forsaken are magically dominated slaves who need to be freed for their own good and for the safety of the Alliance

Because Varian saw exactly what the Forsaken were up to and what they were capable of in the Battle for Undercity

For Genn? Gilneas, Gilneas Cty and Liam

For Danath? Galen

For Admiral Rogers? Southshore

Because Sylvanas has turned this into an existential war. For every Forsake who lives, a human had to die.

Out of game? For the player?

Because it provides story, pvp oppotunities, loot, and would be a way to actively progress the Alliance story

EJL

Good, you have shown reasons for them to hate Forsaken. Now show me the more important part:

How the fuck do they want to conquer it without becoming permanently cripled (no Metzen asspull miracles allowed).

[Wyrt]

Good, you have shown reasons for them to hate Forsaken. Now show me the more important part:

How the fuck do they want to conquer it without becoming permanently cripled (no Metzen asspull miracles allowed).

Drop a mana bomb on it.

[Shinrael]

If you tell me just because you "want it" I get it, I want high elves myself.

But if you try to tell me there is actually a reason why would the alliance throw money to that cesspool of death on an ill-concieved campaign to reclaim a kingdom deader than its last King I'm gonna flip a table.

Tell me one, one viable, material victory the alliance would accomplish that justified retaking Lordaeron. Not nostalgia, not "moral victories", no; a real reason why a campaign for Lordaeron would benefit the alliance as a whole and justified its cost.

Because this is not retaking any place, this is the Kingdom of the living dead that can turn humans into their own. I really want to know what people think would merit that campaing. There is so many people always talking about it, that I must be missing something, and I'm legit curious.

If Varian wins back Hillsbrad Foothills and Alterac Mountains I will level twice the amount of soldiers he has lost that day.
???
Profit

[Talen]

Good, you have shown reasons for them to hate Forsaken. Now show me the more important part:

How the fuck do they want to conquer it without becoming permanently cripled (no Metzen asspull miracles allowed).

Flamethrowers. Using non-human troops that the Forsaken cannot ress.

The Forsaken aren't invincible, nor all powerful. They lack two of the Scourges most important weapons - surprise, and an enemy with no idea how to fight the undead - and the third, the ability to raise the dead to fight for them has been neutered as it only works on humans, and even were that not so, there are ways to prevent the Forsaken claing the bodies.

The Alliance poses a very real threat to the Forsaken....while powerful individually, the magic binding their soul requires the body be relatively intact. Combat is dangerous for the Forsaken.....fire especially so. And if the Alliance has a means of preventing their reinforcement - which they do - then the Forsaken are essentially doomed in any conflict.

EJL

[Verdugo]

Drop a mana bomb on it.

Mana bombs that have the potency to create Theramore crater no longer exist.

Flamethrowers. Using non-human troops that the Forsaken cannot ress.

The Forsaken aren't invincible, nor all powerful. They lack the Scourges most important weapons - surprise, and an enemy with no idea how to fight the undead.

The Alliance poses a very real threat to the Forsaken....while powerful individually, the magic binding their soul requires the body be relatively intact. Combat is dangerous for the Forsaken.....fire especially so. And if the Alliance has a means of preventing their reinforcement - which they do - then the Forsaken are essentially doomed in any conflict.

EJL

You are really trying to say that Forsaken would just rush at Alliance frontlines?

[Wyrt]

Mana bombs that have the potency to create Theramore crater no longer exist.

Make more. The alliance has the Focusing Iris.

[Verdugo]

Make more. The alliance has the Focusing Iris.

They wont, they are whitewashed moralfags.

[Wyrt]

They wont, they are whitewashed moralfags.

But it's zombies. No one likes zombie movies that have morals.

[Talen]

You are really trying to say that Forsaken would just rush at Alliance frontlines?

No...I'm pointing out that the Alliance has the means, tactics and experience necessary to defeat the Forsaken while the Forsaken lack the elements which made the Scourge so dangerous and destructive. They would not be facing an ignorant foe taken by surprise by an invasion from within his own kingdom.

EJL

[Verdugo]

They would not be facing an ignorant foe taken by surprise by an invasion from within his own kingdom.

EJL

No, instead Alliance would face foe that doesnt hold back, doesnt rush at their shieldwalls and instead sabotages their supply lines. Alliance soldiers are still living and need to eat, drink and sleep, and such things would be hard to come by in contaminated wasteland.

But it's zombies. No one likes zombie movies that have morals.

Too bad, Alliance doesnt even have balls to exterminate orcs after they fucked up second time.

[Talen]

No, instead Alliance would face foe that doesnt hold back, doesnt rush at their shieldwalls and instead sabotages their supply lines. Alliance soldiers are still living and need to eat, drink and sleep, and such things would be hard to come by in contaminated wasteland.

Ahhh...if only there were seasoned warriors available to fight and strategists who knew how to fight, how to plan and knew the importance of protecting supply lines....oh, wait!!!!

Why assume Alliance leaders are idiots? The only thing really protecting the Forsaken right now is plot armor.

EJL

[Wyrt]

Why assume Alliance leaders are idiots? The only thing really protecting the Forsaken right now is plot armor.

Because Varian would likely be in charge.

[Aquamonkey]

Because the Forsaken have shown themselves to be aggressive warmakers with plans to conquer Alliance territories.

She has only ever talked about reclaiming Lordaeron territories. Gilneas was at the order of Garrosh.

Because, despite the popular notion, a good chunk of Lordaeranians did survive the Scourge and are being sheltered by the Alliance

1. The largest population centers in Lordaeron were killed or raised into the Scourge during the 3rd War.
2. Lordaeron survivors in the Scarlet Crusade got mostly wiped out.
3. Lordaeron survivors in Theramore got wiped out.
4. Lordaeron survivors in the Argent Dawn got rolled into the Argent Crusade and remains neutral.
5. Lordaeron survivors in Stormwind are so few, they can't even form their own faction. Even the last remnants of Stromgarde could form a faction and actually do shit.
6. Forsaken raise hundreds of corpses every day at graveyards. It's been almost 2 years since the beginning of Cata. By now, they greatly outnumber any living Lordaeron survivors.

Because the Forsaken are necromantic constructs, magical prisons housing the very souls of their friends, their families, their allies, their countrymen and those souls need to be freed from damnation so they can journey to the Light

That's talking like a Forsaken. Forcing things onto people because you think it's good for them. "Welcome back to the realm of the living. With the blessing and power from the Dark Lady, I have freed you from death's grip." Only difference is people raised into undeath by the Val'kyr don't have to stay that way if they don't want.

Because the Forsaken are magically dominated slaves who need to be freed for their own good and for the safety of the Alliance

Except the whole free will thing.

Because Sylvanas has turned this into an existential war. For every Forsaken who lives, a human had to die.

Or go to graveyards and raise those that are already dead, which is actually the source of most of their new recruits. Raising people in battle is just for tactical purposes.

Because the Alliance has seen what the Scourge can do, what the Scourge is capable of - and the only differences of note between the Forsaken and Scourge are size and makeup - the Scourge was larger and had a lot more mindless undead while the Forsaken has a higher proportion of functional undead, capable of some decision making.

And the whole free will thing.

[Verdugo]

Why assume Alliance leaders are idiots? The only thing really protecting the Forsaken right now is plot armor.

EJL

Please dont talk about plot armor without mentioning alliance, they were supposed to be dead for over 20 years by now.

[Deleted]

Reasons for the Alliance to march into the Northern Eastern Kingdoms??

Supplies:
Kingdom Stormwind’s farmlands of westfall have been devastated by the cataclysm. There is no fertile ground and climate in or around Stormwind anymore apart from Elywnn Forest.
The huge farmlands of Hillsbrad have already been destroyed by the forsaken. As of WoW they belonged to the Kingdom Stormwind, too, or at least were part of the Alliance Food Supplies.
The Arathi Highlands and parts of Western Plaguelands are the only further food supplies in the Eastern Kingdom. Furthermore Arathi Highlands do not only provide food but also ores and stones and Lumber.

Human Sense
The Alliance still owns or recently owned the other 5-6 human kingdoms apart from Lordaeron at least by the lands. Some have been conquered by the forsaken. The Alliance is currently at war with the Forsaken. The Forsaken expanded into less defended lands that never belonged to the Kingdom of Lordaeron (Gilneas => Kingdom Gilneas obv.; Hillsbrad Foothills either Kingdom Arathor or Dalaran Empire), but instead belonged to the Alliance. It would make sense to retake those lands.

In order to not have a vast part of the army stationed there forever until there is peace (which won’t ever happen anyway), it would make sense to decimate the threat of the forsaken to the Alliance food supplies and in addition maybe gain more land (in the western plaguelands and around cleansed Lordaeron).

[Deleted]

I don't think anyone has forgotten what happened to the last alliance neighbors the forsaken had lol

"My good sir, could you lend my a cup of sugar?"
"AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, UNDEAD MONSTERS"
"Well, that is just rude. I think it is time for teaching you some manners BY LAUNCHING THE PLAGUE AT YOUR HOUSE."

Yeah, that's how I think it happened.

[Aquamonkey]

The Alliance still owns or recently owned the other 5-6 human kingdoms apart from Lordaeron at least by the lands. Some have been conquered by the forsaken. The Alliance is currently at war with the Forsaken. The Forsaken expanded into less defended lands that never belonged to the Kingdom of Lordaeron (Gilneas => Kingdom Gilneas obv.; Hillsbrad Foothills either Kingdom Arathor or Dalaran Empire), but instead belonged to the Alliance. It would make sense to retake those lands.

Gilneas invasion was ordered by Garrosh, Sylvanas had to obey since she was "in the dog house" after Wrathgate and also because Garrosh threatened to destroy UC if the Forsaken didn't comply with his orders.

Silverpine belonged to Gilneas, but they pmuch ceded it when they walled themselves off during the 3rd War.

Hillsbrad was part of Lordaeron. Terenas allowed Stormwind refugees to settle there.

Stromgarde supposedly goes up the the river, but can argue that the wall is the border.

[Deleted]

I care more about Stromgarde than Lordaeron. Arathi Highlands needs some love. Give it to the Forsaken or let the humans take it back again.

[Deleted]

This is one of those threads where logically no one could deny from a story PoV that the alliance should retake Lordaeron. < Yes Retake. But fanboys will bounce between game dev logic and story telling logic to make any easy argument null and void.
"Its an MMO you cant remove an entire quest hub, besides its been said by devs that since its not a single player game it wont happen" example of the dev argument
"The current residence are the ones who lived there when they were alive" A weak ass story telling argument thats popping up more then it should.
Those arguments are irrelevant.

It was alliance territory and is currently occupied. Whether or not the current occupants 'used' to live there. They are now the enemy and as such should be removed by force. The forsaken are extremely dangerous and you would do something about them, so god knows why im seeing people write "they have WMD's so you should stay away hurrpaderp" That would be a good reason TO attack, why would you let an enemy (already in your territory) with WMD's have free reign in the north? /mindboggled.