Shadow PvP 5.4

[yurano]

Aside from the nonstop PvP nerfs this patch, Shadow PvP just got nerfed again recently.

Battle Fatigue buffed from 45% to 55%, severely negating Shadow self healing performance.

Vampiric Embrace has been reduced, not sure how. It used to be a strong self heal CD but is now extremely weak.

[Kiekö]

It is called "PTR" for a reason you know. Nothing is set in stone.

[Crudelitas]

It is called "PTR" for a reason you know. Nothing is set in stone.

your comment on this topic is so original and cool that my eyes started to bleed just looking at it. people create topics to start a discussion. not interested in it? move along. we don't need a new smart-ass, writing on the priest forums, since we have many here.

on the topic; I still haven't been to ptr, but I assume they will somehow balance it. I remember GC saying arena fights were too bursty and they would look into it.

[Deleted]

It is called "PTR" for a reason you know. Nothing is set in stone.

Yeah.. PTR is pretty much over. What you see on the PTR right now is 99,9% to go live.

Also as the OP said. Your answer is the shittiest one there is to a discussion and should be infracted since it brings NOTHING.


OT: Battle Fatigue affects everyone so shouldnt be too hard hitting for shadow only. Despite from that there are some buffs to
damage abilities so i think shadow will be pretty decent in 3v3 given the right comp

Example of things that are buffed;

Shadow Word: Death now deals 15% more damage.

Shadow Word: Pain now deals 25% more damage.

Vampiric Touch now deals 20% more damage.

From Darkness, Comes Light
Shadow: Now has a 20% chance to activate its effect for Shadow Priests (up from a 15% chance).

Mindbender now deals 10% more damage, and mana return has been increased by 20%.

[yurano]

Also as the OP said.

Wasn't me.

OT: Battle Fatigue affects everyone so shouldnt be too hard hitting for shadow only.

Battle Fatigue was buffed due to healers. With the ilvl increase, DPS was doing too much damage and healers were healing too much. They fixed the DPS problem by increasing resilience baseline from 65% to 72%. They addressed healing by increasing Battle Fatigue from 45% to 55%. Other DPS with off healing aren't significantly effected, but Shadow Priests have been receiving non-stop defensive nerfs since ~5.1 (Shadowform, bubble affected by Battle Fatigue, etc). In 5.4 PTR right before the BF nerf, Shadow Priests were OK defensively, but the BF + VE nerf makes Shadow so weak in PvP.

Example of things that are buffed;

Shadow Word: Death now deals 15% more damage.

Shadow Word: Pain now deals 25% more damage.

Vampiric Touch now deals 20% more damage.

From Darkness, Comes Light
Shadow: Now has a 20% chance to activate its effect for Shadow Priests (up from a 15% chance).

Mindbender now deals 10% more damage, and mana return has been increased by 20%.

SWD has always hit like a feather in PvP, especially since execute times are few and far between. SWD buff is more of a PvE boost than a PvP one.

SWP and VT are such a small portion of Shadow damage that even a 50% buff wouldn't be all that valuable in PvP. Again, more of a PvE buff.

FDCL is also a small portion of Shadow damage. PvE buff as before.

AFAIK, Shadow PvP doesn't run with Mindbender.

Getting damage buffs is always great, but Shadow is lacking defenses. More damage just makes Shadow a glass cannon with no escape mechanisms, which fares poorly in most forms of PvP combat.

[Venaliter]

Shadow PPvP is dead in 5.4. Disc looks good. one viable spec.

[Dierdre]

SWD has always hit like a feather in PvP, especially since execute times are few and far between. SWD buff is more of a PvE boost than a PvP one.

SWP and VT are such a small portion of Shadow damage that even a 50% buff wouldn't be all that valuable in PvP. Again, more of a PvE buff.

FDCL is also a small portion of Shadow damage. PvE buff as before.

AFAIK, Shadow PvP doesn't run with Mindbender.

So... Do you just Mind Blast / Shadowfiend and pray for the kill? Every spell is a "small portion" of our damage. Damage buffs are good for PvP too. I have yet to see some math on the flat DR vs armor increase thing. It is a nerf for sure, particularly vs casters, but I'm not convinced it's as huge as the kneejerk outrage cries claimed until I see some actual numbers on this.

That said, I hate the glass cannon analogy. I like clothie tank better.

[Cempa]

Shadow PvP is completely negated by Dispel which in todays world healers can cast forever...

[Dierdre]

Shadow PvP is completely negated by Dispel which in todays world healers can cast forever...

Umm no. All dispels are on 8s cooldowns.

[Professor Chaos]

From my testing on the PTR you can pretty much destroy in BG's/RBG's since it hits harder than 5.3 and you are actually able to cast. Arena as before is going to depend on having classes that can babysit you 80% of the game just like live

[stickyjam]

So... Do you just Mind Blast / Shadowfiend and pray for the kill? Every spell is a "small portion" of our damage. Damage buffs are good for PvP too. I have yet to see some math on the flat DR vs armor increase thing. It is a nerf for sure, particularly vs casters, but I'm not convinced it's as huge as the kneejerk outrage cries claimed until I see some actual numbers on this.

That said, I hate the glass cannon analogy. I like clothie tank better.

Problem is that most melee during their burst are using abilities that ignore or reduce armor. so its a big 15% more dmg during burst. the time it matters.

Umm no. All dispels are on 8s cooldowns.

he probably plays 2v2. which is amazingly frustrating if the opposing healer spam dispels ur dots on cd. a free bonus this patch, dispel a fear and receive free dot dispel too.

[yurano]

So... Do you just Mind Blast / Shadowfiend and pray for the kill? Every spell is a "small portion" of our damage. Damage buffs are good for PvP too.

You're missing the point.

VT and SWD are such small portions of the Shadow damage that a 25% buff to them end up being less than 5% overall damage boosts.

I have yet to see some math on the flat DR vs armor increase thing. It is a nerf for sure, particularly vs casters, but I'm not convinced it's as huge as the kneejerk outrage cries claimed until I see some actual numbers on this.

There have been plenty of calculations for the Shadowform nerf, but all of the threads have been buried because the change happened over a month ago.

Overall, against most classes Shadowform change is a fairly large nerf: 5-10% more damage taken. Only against classes with over ~75% physical damage (combat rogues, arms warriors) is the Shadowform change neutral.

That said, I hate the glass cannon analogy. I like clothie tank better.

Except Shadow priests are no longer cloth tanks. They used to be in 5.0 and 5.1. Less so in 5.2 and 5.3. Shadow priests are now complete glass cannons as shown by Professor Chaos' comment.

From my testing on the PTR you can pretty much destroy in BG's/RBG's since it hits harder than 5.3 and you are actually able to cast. Arena as before is going to depend on having classes that can babysit you 80% of the game just like live

BGs favor glass cannon classes. Traditionally Hunters were the go to "glass cannon" class for BGs throughout most WoW expansions. More recently, Fire and Arcane Mages as well as Elemental Shamans (in certain patches) have been categorized as "glass cannons".

With recent 5.4 PTR changes, Shadow priests are soon to join the glass cannon category, leaving general Shadow PvP nearly non-viable.

[stickyjam]

You're missing the point.

VT and SWD are such small portions of the Shadow damage that a 25% buff to them end up being less than 5% overall damage boosts.



There have been plenty of calculations for the Shadowform nerf, but all of the threads have been buried because the change happened over a month ago.

Overall, against most classes Shadowform change is a fairly large nerf: 5-10% more damage taken. Only against classes with over ~75% physical damage (combat rogues, arms warriors) is the Shadowform change neutral.



Except Shadow priests are no longer cloth tanks. They used to be in 5.0 and 5.1. Less so in 5.2 and 5.3. Shadow priests are now complete glass cannons as shown by Professor Chaos' comment.



BGs favor glass cannon classes. Traditionally Hunters were the go to "glass cannon" class for BGs throughout most WoW expansions. More recently, Fire and Arcane Mages as well as Elemental Shamans (in certain patches) have been categorized as "glass cannons".

With recent 5.4 PTR changes, Shadow priests are soon to join the glass cannon category, leaving general Shadow PvP nearly non-viable.

I Disagree that the SWD buff isnt going to be noticeable, there has been plenty of times SWD hitting hard would of finished the target for me, perhaps its because ive played alot of games this season but it will be good. the dots buff i semi agree, depends on the cc you have if they can tick full duration with no heals on 3 people its handy..

And as my previous post mentioned the removal of 15% damage is basically 15% more damage taken, your healer won't be struggling outside burst situations and most classes have a way to bypass armor when they want to do big damage.. the time it really matters. Though i don't think your shadow is unviable is quite true, they may struggle for some T1 comps... but i'm sure they'll be some T2/T3 comps purely because shadow can choose when to 3orb and burst, controlled burst damage.

I can forsee shadow being viable in many comps healer + shadow + warrior/ele/balance/fireMage/rogue/dk/lock will all be comps that will work.

[Cempa]

But if shadow becomes a ranged wizard 'glass cannon' then wont it be just like a fire mage...In other words if blizzard wants to homogenize the classes a bit then why even play shadow?

[yurano]

But if shadow becomes a ranged wizard 'glass cannon' then wont it be just like a fire mage...In other words if blizzard wants to homogenize the classes a bit then why even play shadow?

A Fire Mage with DoTs and MFI casting, but no instant Pyroblasts or the myriad of Mage escape abilities and CC.

[Wycked]

Umm no. All dispels are on 8s cooldowns.

Sweet, now i just need to figure out how to make my dp's come up in less than 8 seconds and we're good

[Verain]

Not everyone can dispel disease. And by that reasoning, deep freeze is useless too :P

[yurano]

Not everyone can dispel disease. And by that reasoning, deep freeze is useless too :P

With FoF, mages usually Deep Freeze the healer.