Garrosh took child prisoners from Theramore

[docterfreeze]

oh no, he's evil now. regardless of if you like the idea or not, if you dislike how blizzard made it happen or not, fact is still now set in stone that garrosh is evil, and your just going to have to accept it.

I'll make a thread on it on the day of 5.4. I'll show you why you're wrong. Just have patience.

[Maxweii]

Honestly I don't think much of this. Just as I didn't think much of the bombing of Theramore via mana bomb. Though, I do think this is horrible, I put myself in the shoe's of Garrosh and I do a bit of thinking.
"What is the greatest military standing point of the Alliance in Kalimdor's sea's?" Theramore, as it can be used as a base on land and port for the sea.
"What could be used to gain the upper hand against the Alliance should a conflict arrise from the bombing of Theramore?" Take prisoners, allow the time for Theramore to be filled with military targets, maximum destruction. That means that the civilians had to evacuate, where might they go? Gadgetzen is a good guess as with the short time to prepare they wouldn't be able to cross to the EK, send ships down there to intercept the Alliance.

Garrosh prepared for this whole war in such a great fashion, I think that even if he didn't end up using the powers he found in Pandaria then he would still have been a great force to be reckoned with. While his tactics are dark, crude, and a bit brutal, he shows his strategy if you put pieces together. Also for whomever was the first one mentioning in the intro to Pandaria Garrosh is told they won battles off the coast of Tanaris, good job pointing that out.
Pandaria and the power he got there were mere stepping stones, he got some more weapons from there that might have accelerated his plans a bit, overall though he was in the middle of making huge moves against the Alliance

[Florena]

I'll make a thread on it on the day of 5.4. I'll show you why you're wrong. Just have patience.

You listened to the guy's voice files in 5.4? You can argue he had good intentions for the orcs at first but he's full blown genocidal now.

[docterfreeze]

You listened to the guy's voice files in 5.4? You can argue he had good intentions for the orcs at first but he's full blown genocidal now.

Perfectly good reasons to why he was driven insane. I'll give you a hint: Vol'jin's constant bitching.

[fishface]

I'll make a thread on it on the day of 5.4. I'll show you why you're wrong. Just have patience.

Yeah nah mate, this isn't gonna happen. Garrosh is an evil jerkwad. Was his path to dickery hamfisted and terribly written? Of course! The fact is however, his actions in the game are utterly unforgivable, regardless of his motivations.

[Polybius]

He didn't "take child prisoners", that's just the normal alliance truth twisting. He spared the children from destruction, is what he did.

They f*cking killed Kinndy. There is no alliance truth twisting here. Plus there are children's stuffed toys on their tombs. Death to Garrosh!

[Eucep]

excuse me but, I think its YOU who failed to see the progression of the character and didn't want to acknowledge anything was wrong.

The developers have said, outright, that garrosh's decent into tyrannical dictator has happened over time, he didn't become an asshole overnight, but the seed was already there and growing, you just thought he'd be something different, not noticing the signs in place, or listening to the devs.

Problem I have with it is that Garrosh was an honorable but incredibly hot headed person in Northrend and then at that point with the 'you are dismissed!' you got the idea he was capable of learning and improving himself and actually caring beyond personal honor and glory. The fact that after this he regressed back to a state worse is what annoys people. I'd really wish they had not put in that scene with Garrosh there the way it was. It's the big story kink in the descent to his current state.

[rowaasr13]

don't be stupid, alliance do exactly the same thing with pandaren children when you play horde.

Sorry, Trassk, but for last three years my main is on Horde, so don't you try lying here, ok? Horde counterpart quest encounters pandarens at Allaince base who are NOT kidnapped and NOT enslaved. Their only complain is that they though they would be helping building something else, not military base.

Let me quote that for you too:

We originally welcomed the Alliance as friends. Several of our villagers volunteered to help them build an airstrip. Only recently, however, did it become clear to us that they were building a war base, within shouting distance of our village.

Do I need to spell word V-O-L-U-N-T-E-E-R-E-D letter by letter for you? Oh, I already did. The cubs, when you tell them to leave, even say "it was fun". Looks like horrible, horrible torment, eh, my hordie apologist? How's you any better than Garrosh lovers?

[Grimble]

They really tried to sell Garrosh to Horde players throughout Cata, but they just kept booing and screaming how they'd rather have [basic campfire] as Warchief instead, so they went "fuck it" and turned him into Orc Hitler.

[josykay]

Do I need to spell word V-O-L-U-N-T-E-E-R-E-D letter by letter for you? Oh, I already did. The cubs, when you tell them to leave, even say "it was fun". Looks like horrible, horrible torment, eh, my hordie apologist? How's you any better than Garrosh lovers?

And just because the Pandaren were friendly, and offered the Alliance, who ended shipwrecked at Pandaria some help, allows the Alliance, to abuse them, including their children as working slaves, for building military bases, which the pandaren do not want, and hold them all caught?

[rowaasr13]

And just because the Pandaren were friendly, and offered the Alliance, who ended shipwrecked at Pandaria some help, allows the Alliance, to abuse them, including their children as working slaves, for building military bases, which the pandaren do not want, and hold them all caught?

Are you unable to read or just stubborn in your Horde love? Not a single thing said or witnessed through this quest shows that they are "slaves" in any way. They are not chained, they are not forced, pandaren kids say "it was fun". Do you want to say that those are some BDSM freak cubs whose "fun" is being enslaved or what?

[stomination]

Are you unable to read or just stubborn in your Horde love? Not a single thing said or witnessed through this quest shows that they are "slaves" in any way. They are not chained, they are not forced, pandaren kids say "it was fun". Do you want to say that those are some BDSM freak cubs whose "fun" is being enslaved or what?

We originally welcomed the Alliance as friends. Several of our villagers volunteered to help them build an airstrip. Only recently, however, did it become clear to us that they were building a war base, within shouting distance of our village.

What's worse - I fear that some villagers are being held against their will. If you find them, <class>, let them know that it is time to come home.

Notice how you left out that last part.

But regardless the game is always made to look like the other side is doing wrong then the one you are on.

[josykay]

Not a single thing said or witnessed through this quest shows that they are "slaves" in any way.

Did you read the last sentence of the quest text?

"What's worse - I fear that some villagers are being held against their will. If you find them, <class>, let them know that it is time to come home."

Oh and hereis a quote of Captain Doren:
" Must get that airbase finished. I'll clap the pandaren in manacles if I have to."

They are not chained, they are not forced,

If they are surrounded by an group of armed soldiers, having cannons, flyingmachines and other stuff there is not really a need for chains... most will stay because they fear for their live.
In addition the NPC states otherwise like I said before.

Do you want to say that those are some BDSM freak cubs whose "fun" is being enslaved or what?

No, I think those children are to young to realize, what is really happening...

[Viradiance]

It's just placeholder copy-paste text from the Horde NPCs. C'mon. It's Blizzard. Every Alliance NPC's dialogue will be placeholder until like, the day before launch. Sometimes not even that early...

[rowaasr13]

Notice how you left out that last part.

Notice "I fear" part clearly showing that it is speculation? Notice how this "fear" is never confirmed in quest? So, what other pathetic excuse you can muster? It seems making excuses is favorite pastime of fans of "Orc smash!" style Horde that was slowly introduced after classic.

Just for fun you can also compare lines of Sha-possesed commanders of both Alliance and Horde base. Go ahead. Then come back and explain how Horde is still good and fluffy.

[Ayvalen]

Now I'm curious where he's keeping them if he took them.

[rowaasr13]

Oh and hereis a quote of Captain Doren:
" Must get that airbase finished. I'll clap the pandaren in manacles if I have to."

Oh, but DID HE? No? Whoops. But your fucktarded warlock Orc DID.

[Myrthrall]

I'm familiar with that post of Kosak's, although I think he's quite confused as to what a 'fist-pumping moment' is. That, or he tried and evidently failed to justify how the Alliance's 'victories' in MoP against the 'big, bad Horde' were somehow comparable to the Horde's victories against the actual Alliance the expansion that came prior to MoP. 5.1 was presented generally as a shared victory or at least, not against 'The Horde' as such but rather, Garrosh. 5.2 of course, as with all Alliance victories, was not demonstrated meaningfully in-game. Dalaran is still very much a neutral city for all practical intents and purposes; however much they said otherwise in a phased and temporary questline. Then of course, in 5.4, we are not raiding 'AN ENEMY CAPITAL' so much as 'THE BIG BAD HORDE'S CAPITAL', and 'EVERY SINGLE ORC IN ORGRIMMAR' is not a Horde Orc but rather, a big bad Kor'kron Orc.

Kosak of course expresses concerns about not wanting to 'alienate' the entire Horde playerbase; which makes me wonder what he was thinking in the likes of Cataclysm with Theramore and so on. As an Alliance player (at heart), I certainly felt alienated.

Enought already. IT's a game and you lost a few zones. Waah. Durotar was flooded, you guys made a successful campaign into the barrens to the gate leading into Mulgore, you got to Pandaria before we did, your little poster boy Anduin had a personal audience with Wrathion after stopping Garrosh's plan. All you want is for several zones to be forced into Alliance hands so you guys can feel dominate.

[rowaasr13]

you are, because your asking for get complete and absolute satisfaction against half the playerbase. Its childish, your either go with the flow of the story, or you whine endlessly about not getting your way about it, but either way, your not getting it.

So, when hordies get "complete and absolute satisfaction against half the playerbase" it's a-ok, but when Alliance players ask for the same, hordies start to booohooo their asses out? QQ more.

[KrazyK923]

Enought already. IT's a game and you lost a few zones. Waah. Durotar was flooded, you guys made a successful campaign into the barrens to the gate leading into Mulgore, you got to Pandaria before we did, your little poster boy Anduin had a personal audience with Wrathion after stopping Garrosh's plan. All you want is for several zones to be forced into Alliance hands so you guys can feel dominate.

More strawmanning, woo.