How are rogues for 5.4?

[Pandragon]

I'm not looking at other threads, I want a clear cut answer on rogues. Not shifting through posts about the other 11 classes.

I started pvping in MOP on my Monk, I love my monk. But I had people turning me down for classes in honor/crafted gear because I was playing a monk and they werent. So since my monk is out of the question, the only other class I have I really like for PVP is my rogue and hunter. I have tried my hunter, but I just get blown up by every other class on him so hell no.

This is for RBGs btw.

[Mican17]

Rogues have been fine for RBGs in 5.3, and they're getting slight buffs next patch. They're not easy to play, and you'll have to be smart in RBGs. Bad rogues (non-communicative, unskilled) are such a drag. The fact that you said you get blown up on your hunter by every class is kinda worrisome, to be honest.

[Pandragon]

Rogues have been fine for RBGs in 5.3, and they're getting slight buffs next patch. They're not easy to play, and you'll have to be smart in RBGs. Bad rogues (non-communicative, unskilled) are such a drag.

I know how to play my Rogue. been pvping on him since wrath.

Yeah I knew they were good back in 5.0-1 when I stopped pvping when I had someone turn down my Malev geared Monk at 1400 rating for an unranked dreadful egared rogue just because he had smoke bomb. But all I have heard recently for pvp is "if youre melee and not a DK, good luck getting groups". So I'm wanting to make sure on if this is changing. Cause I have to level my rogue to 90 from 85, and didn't want to waste my time doing it just to have people insult me like they did on my monk.

[DiscoGhost]

Rogues have been fine for RBGs in 5.3, and they're getting slight buffs next patch. They're not easy to play, and you'll have to be smart in RBGs. Bad rogues (non-communicative, unskilled) are such a drag. The fact that you said you get blown up on your hunter by every class is kinda worrisome, to be honest.

this is what i was thinking. rogues imo are the highest skill capped melee class. so if you think you cant play a windwalker or hunter i dont understand why you think you can play a rogue better.

of course in rbgs if you get switched to by an entire team your going to get blown up. when you say better do you mean you just want a vanish button to get out of nasty? i need to know your rating experience to better understand your reasoning.

[Pandragon]

this is what i was thinking. rogues imo are the highest skill capped melee class. so if you think you cant play a windwalker or hunter i dont understand why you think you can play a rogue better.

of course in rbgs if you get switched to by an entire team your going to get blown up. when you say better do you mean you just want a vanish button to get out of nasty? i need to know your rating experience to better understand your reasoning.

Huh? I never said I can't play those classes as in knowledge. I can't play my Monk cause no one wants him. Cause he is a monk. Read my post before replying. Also I never said better. Where did you get better from, and IDK what you mean by it.


@Mican17: So you edited your post to talk about my hunter. I'm not a bad hunter, I have achieved 1800 on him. But right now I just get nuked down by everyone. Except Mages. I can beat mages easy. But the fact I did 1900 on my mage is probably a reason. I know how they work.

[Tyrean]

Sounds like you are at ratings where the comp does not matter for RBG. You just have to get good players. Any class can be in RBG games up to about 2100 then it becomes more about class stacking than not, but up to there the team with the best teamwork and smart players with good communication will win regardless of comp.

Rogue always has a spot in RBG though, smokebomb, healer harrasment, node ninja capping are what you are brought for. If you suck at any of those things then you will quickly become someone who is not invited as the RBG community is in rapid decline so you get a name. I have been in groups where player A gets invited by someone who does not know them and then 5 people drop from the team. That makes me think that not being able to get into teams as WW either means you are thinking you are better than you actually are, or you are trying to get into 1800 games as a 1400 player and thinking it must be because of your class as to why you are not getting games. WW are in fact very good for RBG, they can solo defend a node, have very good peel ability, do very good damage and have the ability to lock down healers on flag maps.

TLDR: I think you are doing it wrong now, so switching classes won't help much. Your replies to other posters seem to confirm this sort of attitude.

[Pandragon]

Sounds like you are at ratings where the comp does not matter for RBG. You just have to get good players. Any class can be in RBG games up to about 2100 then it becomes more about class stacking than not, but up to there the team with the best teamwork and smart players with good communication will win regardless of comp.

Rogue always has a spot in RBG though, smokebomb, healer harrasment, node ninja capping are what you are brought for. If you suck at any of those things then you will quickly become someone who is not invited as the RBG community is in rapid decline so you get a name. I have been in groups where player A gets invited by someone who does not know them and then 5 people drop from the team. That makes me think that not being able to get into teams as WW either means you are thinking you are better than you actually are, or you are trying to get into 1800 games as a 1400 player and thinking it must be because of your class as to why you are not getting games. WW are in fact very good for RBG, they can solo defend a node, have very good peel ability, do very good damage and have the ability to lock down healers on flag maps.

TLDR: I think you are doing it wrong now, so switching classes won't help much. Your replies to other posters seem to confirm this sort of attitude.

LAwlz at the "your posts confirm this". Yeah it's auto me "trying to join 1800 rated groups" and not people thinking they have to run what the 2200+ teams are running to get wins. at 1400 rating I was trying to join 1k-1400 groups and being responded with this "WW monks bring nothing to a raid group I'd rather have a feral or rogue" Or while trying to spam for a group all I would get is ppl psting me insulting me for PVPing as a WW. As I said earlier, if you bothered to even read my posts which you didn't. I was once turned down, at 1400 rating, in full Malev gear, for an RBG cause they would rather take the unrated Dreadful geared Rogue solely because of his smoke bomb ability.

For all of 5.2-5.3 no rbg on my realm would even take you if you were melee unless you were a dk. FCing was only done by Warriors.

[Tyrean]

You did not read my post then. I was saying that comp does not matter at all at low rating, only the players. If you are getting rejected it is because you are either bad, or you have a bad attitude. Your replies have confirmed one or the other, but I am leaning more towards you try to get into a team and the leader sees you are a jerk and won't invite you. High rated teams will put up with jerks to win if they are good. Low rated teams will just ignore/kick/give you an excuse to not have to play with you. It is pretty easy to tell who the jerks are within the first few responses of a team join request.

I would suggest you adjust your attitude towards other players before you try to play a team centric game.

[Pandragon]

You did not read my post then. I was saying that comp does not matter at all at low rating, only the players. If you are getting rejected it is because you are either bad, or you have a bad attitude. Your replies have confirmed one or the other, but I am leaning more towards you try to get into a team and the leader sees you are a jerk and won't invite you. High rated teams will put up with jerks to win if they are good. Low rated teams will just ignore/kick/give you an excuse to not have to play with you. It is pretty easy to tell who the jerks are within the first few responses of a team join request.

I would suggest you adjust your attitude towards other players before you try to play a team centric game.

Lawlz just leave my thread. Currently im only a jerk to you. You whole purpose of posting in this thread is to act like your superior to me. But..wait..you might be right. Me psting someone and saying "Full Malev WW Monk, upgraded Weapons 1400 rating" is being a jerk, so that's why they respond back with "WWs are useless in PVP I'd rather have "x class"

[DiscoGhost]

You did not read my post then. I was saying that comp does not matter at all at low rating, only the players. If you are getting rejected it is because you are either bad, or you have a bad attitude. Your replies have confirmed one or the other, but I am leaning more towards you try to get into a team and the leader sees you are a jerk and won't invite you. High rated teams will put up with jerks to win if they are good. Low rated teams will just ignore/kick/give you an excuse to not have to play with you. It is pretty easy to tell who the jerks are within the first few responses of a team join request.

I would suggest you adjust your attitude towards other players before you try to play a team centric game.

this is the same feeling im getting from the way pandragon is posting.

were not trying to bash you pandragon but from your attitude it seems like your in complete denial and just looking for an easy way out. the best way to to focus on a class you know the most about and get better at that instead of trying to hop around until you find something that is easy mode. i've played my disc priest consecutively since wotlk. even durring the highs and lows. now im on top because i've practiced and tried to master this one class in combination with it arguably being the best healer this season.

[Pandragon]

Ok. I want eevryone to actually read my posts. Not skim them.

I'm asking how will rogues be. I have already stated I have been pvping on my rogue since WRATH, so, duuuh, i know how to play my rogue. I'm switching from my monk because POEPLE INSULT ME FOR PVPING ON A MONK. Stop trying to act supioror "oh your attitude" "oh your skill" when you dont know shit. Just tell me how rogue will freaking be in 5.4.

there is no discussion here on anything else. Not how rogues have been in 5.3. Not how this is or that is. Not how shit goes on your realms. Just how will Rogues be.

[DiscoGhost]

they will be viable, most rbg teams want a rogue.

[tbm13]

From personal experience, monks are in a good place right now, and coming 5.4 they're gonna be better. If no one will play with you, find a scrub, carry them to 1600, then find someone that will arena with you. Honestly, if you like your monk, stick to it. It'll payoff.

Don't change to something, just because people say its better. You're gonna play better on a class you like.

[DiscoGhost]

From personal experience, monks are in a good place right now, and coming 5.4 they're gonna be better. If no one will play with you, find a scrub, carry them to 1600, then find someone that will arena with you. Honestly, if you like your monk, stick to it. It'll payoff.

Don't change to something, just because people say its better. You're gonna play better on a class you like.

we tried telling him that but explicitly wants to know how rogues are next season.

[Pandragon]

From personal experience, monks are in a good place right now, and coming 5.4 they're gonna be better. If no one will play with you, find a scrub, carry them to 1600, then find someone that will arena with you. Honestly, if you like your monk, stick to it. It'll payoff.

Don't change to something, just because people say its better. You're gonna play better on a class you like.

I don't think Rogues are better. I haven't been beaten by a rogue yet on my monk. But when I have people literally insult me for playing WW in pvp. And I go all of a season of not being inv, or kicked on a whim, before a game even gets played. Then I'm not gonna want to play that class anymore for pvp.

I don't do arenas. I suck at Arena. I'm much better at RBG. My playstyle and thinking is more suited for battlegrounds then arenas. Plus Arena is boring to me. lol

[Verain]

there is no discussion here on anything else. Not how rogues have been in 5.3. Not how this is or that is. Not how shit goes on your realms. Just how will Rogues be.

I think the problem is that your set of assumptions are things people take umbrage to. For instance, the assumption that WW is considered so undesirable that you have to reroll (and of course, calling WW "monk"- rogues can't spec MW for trivially easy invites, monks are easily the more desired RBG class).

You also aren't really asking how rogues will be. But since you DID explicitly wonder:

Rogues are getting better in PvP. The biggest thing, our mobility, is a bigger boost in arenas than RBGs, where 4 seconds more or less on shadowstep or 15 energy more or less on burst of speed tends to get dominated by other things (death grip, stealth, ursol's vortex, smokebomb).

Here's the buffs:

1)- Rogue gap closers are being buffed. I exclusively run burst of speed in RBGs (lol I exclusively run burst of speed while logged in, but I can definitely justify it in RBGs). Rogues often will run a reasonable distance stealthed, and burst of speed is a huge battlefield positioning tool. This is being buffed to cost a mere 15 energy. Understand that it doesn't give you the same powers as shadowstep, which is ALSO being buffed. Either way, these two buffs are modest in RBGs, but will make your play much more enjoyable.

2)- Sub rogues are getting SangV to trigger based on Hemo. This means that target swap will function for sub rogues again, and this will also mean that your damage will be a lot more reasonable in a group.

3)- Evasion is getting a decent defensive buff. This will probably help you in solo combat with a hunter, and in small group combat. I don't think this will let us ninja nodes that well, but it might.

4)- All rogues are getting a damage boost, though modest. This boost is mostly contained in our "builder" strikes.


So rogues are getting better. I think they should have a home....

BUT...

RBG comp is pretty hard to predict, however. For instance, if mages and locks get control buffs, then that tends to push rogues out, and we never even compete for the same spots. If you really love your monk, you should probably go MW and then get your punchy gear once you have your healer gear. If you really just want to do nothing but melee, I will point out that DKs seem to be a mandatory spot, but rogues are still desired. I think you should be able to get RBG spots as a rogue while pugging, but it will still require a lot of patience, and of course, you should bring a good healer to the party. Bringing nothing but dps is like going to a wife swap without a wife and wondering why you get treated badly!

Anyway, if rogues are shoved out, it won't be because rogues are bad, it'll be because there's some other ludicrous option that everyone wants.

For what it is worth, pug leaders are ludicrous in their assumptions about rogues. I routinely have leaders assuming I can solo an equally geared BM hunter, and do it in the time it takes a midfield guy to back him up at base, for instance. Even though most BM hunters at my rating (once my core fell apart we never really hit where we were supposed to be) are fully consumable due to numerous misplays, it doesn't take very much but spinning axes to be alive when backup arrives. I've been asked to sap-cap against a BM hunter numerous times, which shows very basic ignorance of hunter mechanics (hunters are literally unsappble permanently, and if the hunter is dumb enough to not have camo, you STILL can't cap because pet). If your crew is too haughty to bring your WW, you could easily run into dumb shit like this too.

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I haven't been beaten by a rogue yet on my monk.

This is a shame! Play some better rogues.

[Tecnice]

I have tried my hunter, but I just get blown up by every other class on him so hell no.

Yeah, about that. Rogue's have a higher skill cap than a Hunter, yeaaa.

[Pandragon]

@Verain: See this is the problem with asking people for advice "Monks are desirable" Yes MW is. Not WW. Apparently since you can't read as well, I'll repeat it. I was being insulted for playing WW PVP Not for play a monk. Why the hell do you people keep ignoring this one sentence? Probably cause you cant argue with me if you acknowledge it. "Monks" are not desirable. MW is. Also, I did try to heal but when I spend 30 secs every 2 mins seeing fear sap stun fear silence stun fear disorient fear stun fear silence poly fear poly cyclone. I don't heal anymore. Also, btw read the thread title "How will rogues be for 5.4" I kinda did ask.

About DKs. I do have a 90 DK, i have pvped on him, and I do like DK PVP. But Dks are the target callers and I am not good at that. I'm better at being told who to kill then doing that. lol

Yeah I have had RBg leaders tell me to sap cap against hunters as well I was like "do you even know how hunters work". When I have RBGed on my Hunter I would always have them let me guard. It always took at least 3-4 people to get the flag from me.

Last note: I haven't been beaten by rogues because I have pvped on one for such a long time I know how they play. I can predict what they are going to do cause they would do it at the same times I would.

@Volant: There's a difference between not having the skill to play a class, and being 2 shotted by another class.

[Verain]

Yeah, about that. Rogue's have a higher skill cap than a Hunter, yeaaa.

Not relevant. I don't think he's worried about capped levels of play. Hunters and rogues don't have dissimilar returns for survival, however- hunters are a little more vulnerable, but rogues are often hardswap targets.

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@Verain: See this is the problem with asking people for advice "Monks are desirable" Yes MW is. Not WW. Apparently since you can't read as well, I'll repeat it. I was being insulted for playing WW PVP Not for play a monk. Why the hell do you people keep ignoring this one sentence?

I read it, I didn't ignore it.

For instance, the assumption that WW is considered so undesirable that you have to reroll (and of course, calling WW "monk"- rogues can't spec MW for trivially easy invites, monks are easily the more desired RBG class).

Now, lets play "what did you say verbatim"?

"I started pvping in MOP on my Monk, I love my monk. But I had people turning me down for classes in honor/crafted gear because I was playing a monk and they werent." (emphasis mine)
" I stopped pvping when I had someone turn down my Malev geared Monk at 1400 rating for an unranked dreadful egared rogue just because he had smoke bomb. " (emphasis mine)
"I can't play my Monk cause no one wants him. Cause he is a monk."

It takes you until your FOURTH FUCKING POST to mention that you are playing WW. I'm calling you out for... " (and of course, calling WW "monk")

Which you totally did. RIGHT UP THERE.

Of course, there's no doubt that you were playing WW. I responded as such and didn't waste time pretending otherwise. I did call you out for the fiction, however.

Probably cause you cant argue with me if you acknowledge it. "Monks" are not desirable. MW is.

I have a hard time getting an RBG group as combat.

MONKS are very desired. In fact, you can gear as MW and then get your WW gear that way- this season it was SUPER easy to do that, in fact, and by then you would hopefully have met some friends that would be able to let you play your desired spec.

I MENTION ALL THIS in the post that... well, I'm not really convinced you read?

"How will rogues be for 5.4" I kinda did ask.

And except for parenthetically calling you out for your disservice to the monk class by pretending that the desired and powerful mistweaver spec is somehow nonexistent, that is what I spent my post answering. All about rogues.

Last note: I haven't been beaten by rogues because I have pvped on one for such a long time I know how they play. I can predict what they are going to do cause they would do it at the same times I would.

Yea, and I think you just need some better rogues to beat you down. Windwalker is a solid solo spec though.



Look bro, it's simple- your MONK can get pugs. You just can't do it in your chosen spec. Don't pretend like monks are nonviable, which you totally DID do, because of that. And more importantly, that's really just with pugs. Hell, half the time to get in an oqueue this season I've needed to get Harlin to log on. Because she's a mistweaver :O

[Pandragon]

Now, lets play "what did you say verbatim"?

"I started pvping in MOP on my Monk, I love my monk. But I had people turning me down for classes in honor/crafted gear because I was playing a monk and they werent." (emphasis mine)
" I stopped pvping when I had someone turn down my Malev geared Monk at 1400 rating for an unranked dreadful egared rogue just because he had smoke bomb. " (emphasis mine)
"I can't play my Monk cause no one wants him. Cause he is a monk."

It takes you until your FOURTH FUCKING POST to mention that you are playing WW. I'm calling you out for... " (and of course, calling WW "monk")

Which you totally did. RIGHT UP THERE.

Of course, there's no doubt that you were playing WW. I responded as such and didn't waste time pretending otherwise. I did call you out for the fiction, however

.

I apologize then. I could have sworn I put WW in my opening post. I was tired when I made the post. lol

I have a hard time getting an RBG group as combat.

MONKS are very desired. In fact, you can gear as MW and then get your WW gear that way- this season it was SUPER easy to do that, in fact, and by then you would hopefully have met some friends that would be able to let you play your desired spec.

I MENTION ALL THIS in the post that... well, I'm not really convinced you read?

I did read it. Also you're doing too "Monks are very desirable" No MW is not WW. I do have MW gear, I have played as MW. But spending 30secs+ of a fight being cced isn't fun.

And except for parenthetically calling you out for your disservice to the monk class by pretending that the desired and powerful mistweaver spec is somehow nonexistent, that is what I spent my post answering. All about rogues.

I'm not pretending no one wants MW. I know they do.

Yea, and I think you just need some better rogues to beat you down. Windwalker is a solid solo spec though.

So what? 2400 rated rogues? I have beaten rogues on my realm that have ratings of 1800-2k.

Look bro, it's simple- your MONK can get pugs. You just can't do it in your chosen spec. Don't pretend like monks are nonviable, which you totally DID do, because of that. And more importantly, that's really just with pugs. Hell, half the time to get in an oqueue this season I've needed to get Harlin to log on. Because she's a mistweaver :O

And thats why I;m switching to rogue. I can't find RBGs as WW so I'm changing classes. While I do like MW healing, I don't like spending entire fights being cced. Yes I know dps gets cced as well, but not as bad as healers do.