Reason Dalaran does not show up is....WAT?!

[wych]

So, your point is based on semantics? The Alliance does invade the Horde's capital, it does destroy its military forces and it does dethrone its leader. It's a joint operation with the Rebels because both parts are interested on doing it so.

It's explicitly stated in the 5.4 trailer that the horde has broken in 2.

"They are no longer part of MY horde". Come 5.4 Garrosh is no longer the Warchief of the players nor most of the player loved NPCs.

Anyway that isn't my personal issue, my issue is with the Alliance story (particularly 5.3) feeling tacked on, and lots of times unfinished or illogical.

[Immitis]

I really, really don't understand why people keep saying this.

Here, let me help you a bit.



No. We HELP the HORDE retake THEIR CAPITAL.



No. We HELP the HORDE destroy THEIR ENEMIES.



No. We DETHRONE the leader the Horde is REBELLING AGAINST.


That is why people complain about it. We aren't "sacking" Orgrimmar. We aren't killing the Horde leader, we are helping the Horde win their own civil war and regain their footing.

This is like if VanCleef and the Defias took over stormwind, and the Horde came into Stormwind, ignored all the regular citizens, shops, buildings, etc. Killed the Defias and VanCleef for us, and then left. Do you see the difference between that and actually sacking a city and killing the Horde leader? We are no more "winning" against the Horde than we did when we cleared the apothecaries out of Undercity. We aren't looting shops, we aren't forcing the OTHER Horde races (Looking at you Forsaken) to pay for all the horrible crap they've done. We are showing up to help the Horde retake their own city, and then leaving after giving them back power.

we have three options

1. let garrosh decimate the rebels and leave someone who we know will attack the alliance shortly afterwards

2. cripple the hordes military by taking out the majority of their forces and allow them to elect a new less agressive warchief that actually has a chance at peace between the factions and also show help giving them a warmer view of the alliance and should any apocalyptic forces come around (and they totes will theyve had one every damn year in azeroth) they would be likely to work together with us

3. destroy the orcs then force the rest of the horde into submission until they join the alliance.

1 of those choices is fucking retarded, and 1 of those choices arent possible in an mmo.

its pretty damn obvious why we are helping the rebels

[Jessicka]

The bigger question is why Jaina didn't just stop being a pansy and wipe the city out with the tidal wave to begin with.

Because Thrall was too strong for Her + Focusing Iris in spite of having to dodge lethal attacks. Realised his plot armour was too strong and at that point the plan was to reinstate Thrall as God.

[alt-ithist]

Bit off-topic, but it bothers me that they'd consider using Dalaran as some kind of flying death ship. It's supposed to be a place of magical learning, and has a large civilian population and a lot of completely immartial businesses. >.<

What do you think they were doing in Northrend? The Nexus WAR.

[Deleted]

I'll probably get flamed for this.

But seriously, if Blizzard stops themselves from making cool things like that because ''people might have some lag'' it's really, really sad, and stupid.

I know computers are expensive, but World of Warcraft is a really old game, if people seriously can't buy a somewhat better computer (and you don't even need a good one to play World of Warcraft) they should just stop playing computer games overall.

[Deleted]

It's explicitly stated in the 5.4 trailer that the horde has broken in 2.

"They are no longer part of MY horde". Come 5.4 Garrosh is no longer the Warchief of the players nor most of the player loved NPCs.

Anyway that isn't my personal issue, my issue is with the Alliance story (particularly 5.3) feeling tacked on, and lots of times unfinished or illogical.

But the technical names are still correct, Garrosh being Horde and the players being Rebels. That's even the title of the 5.3 Barrens, Darkspear Revolutionary.

[Nadiru]

So, your point is based on semantics? The Alliance does invade the Horde's capital, it does destroy its military forces and it does dethrone its leader. It's a joint operation with the Rebels because both parts are interested on doing it so.

It's not semantics, though, it's pointing out that it's the Horde who are being the major players in the storyline leading to SoO, and not the Alliance. The Alliance have been bit players for two patches now, despite Jaina getting the Staff of Thunder. The climax of the story for Alliance players was supposedly Anduin getting his shit slapped by Garrosh, but that ended up not translating into anything, because Varian didn't step up his game after that, nor did he show in-game that he wasn't going to allow his emotions to consume him like Garrosh did with his. Either would have been acceptable, Blizzard opted for none of the above.

[Malorn]

You do understand that Dalaran isn't just the city of magic of the alliance? Dalaran used to be the center of magic for all races that decided they wanted to pursue the concept of weaving the arcane lays. The fact that jaina threw out the blood elves, declared them traitors and so on is still too big a hit on the horde, having the city float over orgrimmar just because jaina is nuts, didn't heed the warnings that theramore was gonna be raised and didn't save her people on her own on time and caused Rhonin is cause of her and only her, the fact that he was blown to smitherness is her fault and thus Dalaran has no reason for attending the siege of orgrimmar. It's like the druidic leaders having a fight or a coup and the horde druids throwing out of moonglade the alliance druids. plainly stupid. Also you ally lore-thirsty baffoons should stop to reconsider the fact that even though garrosh smacked anduin pretty hard, the rest of the horde didnt rlly hold a deadly aggression towards him and he was even assisted by Dezco. Instead of the alliance being happy that their crown prince is alive and well, being a military asset, they are mad for the actions of the horde and want to raise the city even though we lose, like what? Our warchief, general, our warchief's champion, more than half of the hordes resources, the trust of the pandaren and discord within the ranks.

[Asphyxiate9]

Cheap excuses!

The real reason why we will not see (I fear that never) the Alliance-exclusive Dalaran is simply because of the Blizzard's favoritism towards the Horde. Blizzard never will give the Alliance anything positive...

Bleh... We stopped the horde in Jade Forest, we stopped the events in 5.1 from happening, in 5.2 we took a city for our own, in 5.3 the horde grew further apart while we came together, and now in 5.4 we are marching on a Horde city to slay their warchief.....

How is that not pro-Alliance?

[Deleted]

I'll probably get flamed for this.

But seriously, if Blizzard stops themselves from making cool things like that because ''people might have some lag'' it's really, really sad, and stupid.

I know computers are expensive, but World of Warcraft is a really old game, if people seriously can't buy a somewhat better computer (and you don't even need a good one to play World of Warcraft) they should just stop playing computer games overall.

And then Blizz lose a 1 million more subs.

[wych]

I'll probably get flamed for this.

But seriously, if Blizzard stops themselves from making cool things like that because ''people might have some lag'' it's really, really sad, and stupid.

I know computers are expensive, but World of Warcraft is a really old game, if people seriously can't buy a somewhat better computer (and you don't even need a good one to play World of Warcraft) they should just stop playing computer games overall.

Yep it makes total business sense to remove part of the audience from your game.

[Deleted]

It's not semantics, though, it's pointing out that it's the Horde who are being the major players in the storyline leading to SoO, and not the Alliance. The Alliance have been bit players for two patches now, despite Jaina getting the Staff of Thunder. The climax of the story for Alliance players was supposedly Anduin getting his shit slapped by Garrosh, but that ended up not translating into anything, because Varian didn't step up his game after that, nor did he show in-game that he wasn't going to allow his emotions to consume him like Garrosh did with his. Either would have been acceptable, Blizzard opted for none of the above.

It's still semantics. I don't need to repeat my post again, all those things DO happen, doesn't matter the led-up behind on the decision.

[Hitei]

we have three options

1. let garrosh decimate the rebels and leave someone who we know will attack the alliance shortly afterwards

2. cripple the hordes military by taking out the majority of their forces and allow them to elect a new less agressive warchief that actually has a chance at peace between the factions and also show help giving them a warmer view of the alliance and should any apocalyptic forces come around (and they totes will theyve had one every damn year in azeroth) they would be likely to work together with us

3. destroy the orcs then force the rest of the horde into submission until they join the alliance.

1 of those choices is fucking retarded, and 1 of those choices arent possible in an mmo.

its pretty damn obvious why we are helping the rebels

I agree. It's because the logical choice doesn't work in an MMO.
Because if the Alliance did what they should do, there wouldn't be two factions anymore. But that isn't the point of my post.

My point was that people need to stop acting like the Alliance is winning some amazing victory against the Horde and trashing Orgrimmar. We aren't.
It's really tiring to make valid complaints about the lack of Alliance story development, and the lack of Alliance victories reflected in game, and have idiots say "But we destroy and conquer Orgrimmar." when all we're doing in 5.4 is helping the Horde win their civil war.

It's still semantics. I don't need to repeat my post again, all those things DO happen, doesn't matter the led-up behind on the decision.

You clearly don't understand what semantics means.
You might as well argue there's no difference between being invaded by another country and declaring war, and seeing resources your country wants and declaring war.

[colossus127]

I still don't understand why the Alliance aren't happy with the story they're receiving.

Seriously. I don't think I'll ever understand.

Dude the Alliance LOVE to bitch. Its been like that since I started playing 5 or so years ago. It was the end of BC, People were all high from Illidan(an alliance character) and were getting ready for Lich King(another Alliance character) and they still bitched.

Bitched that we had this or that, or the story line was this or that. And the whole WotLK was pretty much based around the Alliance and the atrocious things Arthas did to them. The only person from the Horde who needed any closure of the story was Sylvanas and it was weak and ended when she realized she couldnt defeat(lore shield).

Alliance love to bitch, its s fetish thing with them I think. "Oh master please dont hit me anymore.....hehehe" Is what they are thinking.

[Immitis]

Bleh... We stopped the horde in Jade Forest, we stopped the events in 5.1 from happening, in 5.2 we took a city for our own, in 5.3 the horde grew further apart while we came together, and now in 5.4 we are marching on a Horde city to slay their warchief.....

How is that not pro-Alliance?

exactly, the alliance has LITERALLY won every battle this expansion besides theramore.

EVERY battle.

weve been kicking butt all over pandaria to the point where garrosh is now hiding in his city playing a final gambit to try and take all our major players out in one blow.

hes not hiding in that city from the rebels, those rebels could barely hold one town, hes hiding in that city because weve forced him there, everywhere hes went hes lost and hes had to go further and further to try and defeat us, now he has nowhere left to go.

[Nadiru]

Bleh... We stopped the horde in Jade Forest, we stopped the events in 5.1 from happening, in 5.2 we took a city for our own, in 5.3 the horde grew further apart while we came together, and now in 5.4 we are marching on a Horde city to slay their warchief.....

How is that not pro-Alliance?

Did you play through the Alliance and Horde questlines in Jade Forest? The Horde spend way more time killing the Alliance, in 5.1 the Alliance fight a defensive war against the Horde, and it's only through the captain of the Skyfire (who is implied to be acting contrary to what Varian wants) that the Alliance strike blows against the Horde. In 5.2 the Alliance retake Dalaran, and we never see it mentioned or talked about in-game ever again, and because Dalaran is so central to the Northrend content, it can never be moved or even used as the Alliance city it is in lore. In 5.3 we see the Horde grow together against Garrosh, and help them, to the detriment of the Alliance since the Horde will still be opposed to the Alliance after this is all done.

[Malorn]

exactly, the alliance has LITERALLY won every battle this expansion besides theramore.

EVERY battle.

weve been kicking butt all over pandaria to the point where garrosh is now hiding in his city playing a final gambit to try and take all our major players out in one blow.

hes not hiding in that city from the rebels, those rebels could barely hold one town, hes hiding in that city because weve forced him there, everywhere hes went hes lost and hes had to go further and further to try and defeat us, now he has nowhere left to go.

Garrosh isn't hiding in orgrimmar he knows he doesn't have the upper hand in an open war, he is forcing the alliance and "rebeling" horde forces to come to him so he will have an easier time finishing them off, plain and simple as that :P

[wych]

Dude the Alliance LOVE to bitch. Its been like that since I started playing 5 or so years ago. It was the end of BC, People were all high from Illidan(an alliance character) and were getting ready for Lich King(another Alliance character) and they still bitched.

Bitched that we had this or that, or the story line was this or that. And the whole WotLK was pretty much based around the Alliance and the atrocious things Arthas did to them. The only person from the Horde who needed any closure of the story was Sylvanas and it was weak and ended when she realized she couldnt defeat(lore shield).

Alliance love to bitch, its s fetish thing with them I think. "Oh master please dont hit me anymore.....hehehe" Is what they are thinking.

For starters Illidan was NEVER part of the Alliance.

This point has been refuted so many times that it's really not worth writing it all out again, but go read some of the older threads and stop making the batshit retarded assumption that somehow there's a massive difference in personalities of Alliance and Horde players.

The issue is with how it is portrayed. 1-60 is awful for the alliance comparatively, it's loss after loss and victories are either told through exposition in quest text or implied.

The Twilight Highlands into for the alliance actually WASN'T finished.

5.3 the alliance are literally tacked onto it with a BS quest about a robot kitten.

[Elestia]

Lol, because Blizz is lazy, and lorewise Dalaran has the power to raze Ogrimar into dust without Alliance assistance. Technically if Jaina had been out for Garrosh's blood, she would have moved on Ogrimar awhile ago while Horde forces were in Pandaria. In fact most aspects of the story make absolutely no sense under military logic. The story is framed scene by scene, instance by instance and is totally non-dynamic. Having Dalaran assaulting Orgrimar would just feel like the usual WoW cheese of "simulated" dynamic combat where in fact it is not. Leveling in northrend would be weird also, knowing that Dalaran was both in Crystal-song Forest and besieging Org. Sometimes, I wish Blizz devs actually knew shit about how to create an immersive dynamic game, the story and game-play would be 10 times better.

[Immitis]

Garrosh isn't hiding in orgrimmar he knows he doesn't have the upper hand in an open war, he is forcing the alliance and "rebeling" horde forces to come to him so he will have an easier time finishing them off, plain and simple as that :P

in other words hes hiding.

this is his ONLY shot at winning. hes hiding in that city because he has nowhere else to go