Did casuals ruin WoW and if so how?

[Bizerk]

I personally don't see why a thread like this has to be made every day. I think we've all pointed out how Contra and battletoads are harder than vanilla wow ever was. But people forget that the problem in question is that people who know the game inside out can be free to blame the casuals and blizzard for everything and that's fine I guess since it's quite obviously the case, but people forget an abysmal majority of those casuals have no idea about the game, or the community, or what was or is or could be, and no-one is really bothering to make it a case for them either. This monthly in-out scenario of people joining and leaving the game is what eventually makes sub losses go down because there's simply less people "staying".

[taheen74]

I personally don't see why a thread like this has to be made every day. I think we've all pointed out how Contra and battletoads are harder than vanilla wow ever was. But people forget that the problem in question is that people who know the game inside out can be free to blame the casuals and blizzard for everything and that's fine I guess since it's quite obviously the case, but people forget an abysmal majority of those casuals have no idea about the game, or the community, or what was or is or could be, and no-one is really bothering to make it a case for them either. This monthly in-out scenario of people joining and leaving the game is what eventually makes sub losses go down because there's simply less people "staying".

Actually I have been trying my damnedest for the last 6 months on the US forums to get people to stop blaming casuals for every thing that Bliz does. There's a handful of people on the US forums that just feel that everything is the casuals fault.

Hell, I even went as far as to start a blog on the subject: http://mouthygoblin.weebly.com/jujus-blog.html#/

And I mainly did that because my posts were starting to turn into King novels.

[Lord Blackmore]

I don't think one day goes by in which someone doesn't make an anti-LFR thread on the US general forums.

And that's just the people who still subscribe. The people who quit, but can't stop bitching show up here.

[Alerzhul]

And that's just the people who still subscribe. The people who quit, but can't stop bitching show up here.

And they shouldn't stop.

[Lord Blackmore]

And they shouldn't stop.

People are free to be as childish and clueless as they want. We are free to mock their stupidity.

"Absolutely, yes. LFR/LFD = Death of WoW and possibly the entire mmo genre"

A comment like that pretty much tells everyoen that you simply don't get it.

[Alerzhul]

TBC is regarded by a lot of players as the best raiding expansion because of just how well Blizzard nailed the accessibility of raids. They were still doable by most people if you put the effort in, yet they were difficult enough for the gear you earned in them to still have prestige. It was at this time where the prestige of gear was at it's peak and as such many players had genuine motivation for raiding, and as a result enjoyed it greatly. Ulduar was similar to this by being a huge and mostly accessible raid with lots of options if you found a certain wing too difficult.

This. TBC was the sweet spot.

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People are free to be as childish and clueless as they want. We are free to mock their stupidity.

"Absolutely, yes. LFR/LFD = Death of WoW and possibly the entire mmo genre"

A comment like that pretty much tells everyoen that you simply don't get it.

Look at sub numbers my friend. That is all. Casual WoW = Failure

[Lord Blackmore]

Look at sub numbers my friend. That is all. Casual WoW = Failure

Yeah, you definitely don't get it.

The major factors in WoW's decline are a) the game is old, b) the demographic has shifted and c) there are far more gaming options now.

There is absolutely no factual basis for the claim that the "casualization" of wow is directly responsible for the subscription decline. For all anyone knows, if they had kept the TBC model in LK, Cata and Mop, the subs could have declined even faster. All anyone really knows is that wow is definitely on the inevitable downslope.

The reality is that the situation is far more complex than " Casual WoW = Failure".

[Deleted]

How is the game ruined exactly?

[Alerzhul]

Yeah, you definitely don't get it.

The major factors in WoW's decline are a) the game is old, b) the demographic has shifted and c) there are far more gaming options now.


The reality is that the situation is far more complex than " Casual WoW = Failure".

Ok sorry, it is 97% the reason. I will give the other 3% to your a b and c.

[judgementofantonidas]

I wouldn't say elitists have a poor definition "casual". More the entire player base has their own definition of casual that more often than not has negative connotations.

Casuals haven't ruined the game. Blizzard has.

YEAH. Those dern top end guilds that only play a week or two and then unsub. They are so lazy!!

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Does anyone really enjoy a game where there's no challenge and they just faceroll anything?

Really?

It is over abundantly clear that more do than do not or else WoW would not be going the direction it has been.

[Chirri]

Casuals made WoW a record breaking game. No, they didn't ruin WoW.

WoW was rather casual at launch... for people who'd been playing MMO's prior to WoW, at least. It was certainly rougher and somewhat grindy, they've just shifted around where the grind gets felt.

[Grogo]

A few variations of the term casual players.

1. Casual as in entitled and lazy

2. Casual as in time sensitive

3. Casual as in entitled and bad

4. Casual as in plays less but wants solid gameplay leaning to a harder difficulty

It is funny that a lot of casuals play more than the hardcore or regualr players many times.

[judgementofantonidas]

Yea, but non-casuals are the reason certain bosses got new legs.

still laughing

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Content was more time consuming which kept u playing longer, Content now is dumbed down and made very easy to do for casuals. Blizzard just got lazy took the easy way out and are now paying for it every day. TBC model for me was the best and was a really great game to play.

Yep. Content is so easy now, for the ultra hard core, that the ultra hard core are done with it week one, so they force feed that content to the average players who cannot even come close to keeping up. There are MANY guilds that would full clear the content if a tier was not rushed the way they currently are, and the ultra elite will still unsub till the next tier is released so what is the rush?

[Grimble]

Look at sub numbers my friend. That is all. Casual WoW = Failure

I bet if they kept the TBC model, subscriptions would have stayed at peak forever, right? No matter how old the game got, or what other games came out, or how free they were to play, people would just sit around in World of Warcraft looking at your epics and doing hardcore raids until the heat-death of the universe, yeah?

But don't worry, sure Blizzard is foolish enough to ignore the endless money-geyser that catering to a tiny, noisy, elitist minority provides, but that doesn't mean everyone else is. Surely some other company is about to come out with a hardcore raiding MMO that will set the world on fire, gain twenty million subscribers, and put those Blizzard fools out of business.

Bpfffahahahahah-- sorry, I couldn't keep a straight face. Yeah sorry, but MMO developers have finally realized that your ilk isn't worth the trouble. Have fun hating everything in this genre until the end of time.

[judgementofantonidas]

What the hell is a LFR hero? Please do enlighten me? Is it those normal raiders that go into LFR and AFK their way through letting everyone else pick up their slack , whilst they come on the forums to mock and jape that they AFK through it and get their loots?

Or is it just you being derogatory towards people that solely use LFR and enjoy it, to make yourself feel better?

Because I play LFR only these days, that is my end game raiding, and I certainly do not go around demanding they give us X or I will unsub. Have been subbed for 8 years have never unsubbed in those 8 years , continually enjoy the game, and when they change things about that doesn't suit me, I find something else to do, or if my life changes I change my playstyle to suit.

For me the game has only gotten better. More options, different ways to play, allowing more people into content they previously couldn't get into. Not sure whats wrong with that.

An LFR hero or captain LFR is a tank in blues and pvp crap who constantly plays taunt on cooldown with a fully raid geared tank as if he has something to prove.

[Callace]

I bet if they kept the TBC model, subscriptions would have stayed at peak forever, right? No matter how old the game got, or what other games came out, or how free they were to play, people would just sit around in World of Warcraft looking at your epics and doing hardcore raids until the heat-death of the universe, yeah?

But don't worry, sure Blizzard is foolish enough to ignore the endless money-geyser that catering to a tiny, noisy, elitist minority provides, but that doesn't mean everyone else is. Surely some other company is about to come out with a hardcore raiding MMO that will set the world on fire, gain twenty million subscribers, and put those Blizzard fools out of business.

Bpfffahahahahah-- sorry, I couldn't keep a straight face. Yeah sorry, but MMO developers have finally realized that your ilk isn't worth the trouble. Have fun hating everything in this genre until the end of time.

Nice one. There is like no market for hardcore mmos period. I'm not saying that's a good thing, and I respect those who are into it. But they simply don't have enough like-minded friends to sustain the business.

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An LFR hero or captain LFR is a tank in blues and pvp crap who constantly plays taunt on cooldown with a fully raid geared tank as if he has something to prove.

Hey, it's a great way to test your chops for the first time.

[Seegtease]

It is funny that a lot of casuals play more than the hardcore or regualr players many times.

Sounds like how I was when I was playing. I have kids. I quit playing FFXI because I needed a game where I could do a little bit, still make progress in game, but leave suddenly if I had to. WoW fit that, I could log on, do a few quest, get a level, and do other things in real life. But overall, I did spend a LOT of time playing, it was just broken up more. It was a long time before I raided. I certainly had trouble getting 3 hours in a row undisturbed (anybody with children should understand this).

As a "casual" I never once wanted the game to get easier. In fact, I LIKED how leveling was more difficult in Vanilla. I liked being able to find groups in a short time (looking for dungeon was great for me) but I never wanted the content to be easier. I consider myself to be good at games, I just don't have the time. I like to be challenged.

WoW has always been casual, because I could play it and reasonably get to max level and get some decent gear on a tricky schedule.

People who want the game easier aren't "casual", they're just bad players.

[taheen74]

Ok sorry, it is 97% the reason. I will give the other 3% to your a b and c.

As I told someone on the US forums: prove it or shut up.

With actual facts and not opinion.

[Tomana]

but I personally feel like - If EVERYONE was able to raid properly, the game would be more fun as a whole.

And if we could have world peace, it would be better too, but it can't happen.

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TBC is regarded by a lot of players as the best raiding expansion because of just how well Blizzard nailed the accessibility of raids. They were still doable by most people if you put the effort in, yet they were difficult enough for the gear you earned in them to still have prestige. It was at this time where the prestige of gear was at it's peak and as such many players had genuine motivation for raiding, and as a result enjoyed it greatly.

Which is why most people never got past Kara? What is the point of developing raids if almost none will see them in practice?

In the end Blizzard only catered to those who weren't willing to put in the time and effort to get better at the game because it was so easy to do so, but ended up shooting themselves in the foot by doing so.

No-no. WoW jumped the shark when devs made early Cata more difficult compared to Wrath. Surprisingly enough, it didn't work.

A huge chunk of the playerbase wants to be challenged and earn prestige from overcoming those challenges.

You really should get out more. Most people (not just players) do not want any sort of challenge at all. It's sociology 101.

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Look at sub numbers my friend. That is all. Casual WoW = Failure

Tell me that Mr. NotExpert, if hardcore MMO = great, then why there are none on the market with subs worth mentioning?
'Cause you know, by that logic there should be at least one of those on the market, and possibly more.

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Ok sorry, it is 97% the reason. I will give the other 3% to your a b and c.

But of course. So, the product life cycle is a lie. Suuure.
Get out, go to a library and grab the marketing 101 manual, it will explain a lot of things. If you can finish it, that is.

[Binko]

Nope, casuals didn't ruin the game. Bad people who want everything just because they pay a subscription did.

My word, imagine that! Paying $180 a year for access to a game and actually wanting the premier components of the game and all of the main storyline to be accessible to the average player!

The people who actually ruin the game are the hardcore raiders and PVPers who believe they deserve some kind of exalted status because they play a video game at a different pace or in a different style or even with a different skill level than other players.

LFR pricked the bubble of exclusivity that raiders once enjoyed and many can't deal with it. So they start topics like this and call people who are paying a lot of money to play WoW "bad people" because they want to experience the entire game that they are paying for.