Did casuals ruin WoW and if so how?

[Merchy3]

Before they catered to casuals, the game had higher subs by far; numbers don't lie.

So to answer your question IMHO, yes it's somewhat ruining WoW because most of them want the content too easy and they have no room for improvement because they want the content scaled down to their skill level instead of trying to rise for the challenge. They put almost no effort into their character with keeping up with the most simple of things such a stat prio, and some casuals I've seen have mixed gear like a resto druid with half cloth/leather gear. I've set down and tried to help and improve many players, linked them to websites, addons, etc and they still don't care and act like they don't have time to help themselves. I raid in a 13/13 heroic guild and STILL hold a full time job fine, wife and my first kid soon and CASUALS are a disgrace when they act like they can't do crap because they are casual.

[Kioshi]

I don't think anyone ruin anything I just think the following.

To Hardcore wanna be (not real hardcore people), ones that can only do normal and complain there is no challenge in Raid Finder
1) Go do Hard mode
2) Color means crap
3) If you were up to date in gear you wouldn't need gear in Raid finder

To Causal wanna be (Lazy people who want free loot for sitting around)
1) your gear can not be same ilevel as Normal or Hard mode, why? because they work harder for theirs while you auto attack in Raid finder for yours
2) No you can not get the new tier of raiding for Raid finder all at the same time as Normal, because normal takes skill to get through, Raid finder is afk grinding
3) Be happy you have an option of raid finder, stop complaining about not making normal mode or Hard mode easier and that you are bore, try to find a guild and raid normal if you are bore.

Before they catered to casuals, the game had higher subs by far; numbers don't lie.

and before they cater to casual the game was new, old things don't increase sales, would you buy an 10 year old Desktop for the same price as today New one? No

[Seegtease]

Before they catered to casuals, the game had higher subs by far; numbers don't lie.

You're assuming WoW had a time where they didn't cater to casuals. You're wrong.

You're right, numbers don't lie. Subs were highest in WotlK, which was a very casual expansion. Your argument suddenly falls apart.

[melodramocracy]

Cataclysm and MoP are less casual than Wotlk and previous expansions? Is this a joke? Random casuals in LFR were killing Deathwing with ease on the same week he got released and you think that is less casual than gated ICC and other things in Wotlk ?



I am not sure if you are pulling my leg or serious

One tier does not an expansion make. I'm not sure how you could ever conceive that Cata was more casual than Wrath was. If anything, Cata was a far smaller expansion, which led folks to consume a lot of it faster, which probably led to the feeling that it was more casual when DS was released... but prior to that tier? There's no way.

/I just sort of agreed with GL on something. Marking my calendar

- - - Updated - - -

Heck, I'd go as far to say that LFR Lei Shen might be harder then nearly every boss in Vanilla with 'appropriate gear'

Absolutely. If you want to see an "lfr isn't real raiding" advocate have fits, point out that original LFR Lei Shen and Durummu are both more difficult than some ICC / ToC / Ulduar bosses, and most of Naxx. So none of that must have been real raiding either.

[cityguy193]

You're assuming WoW had a time where they didn't cater to casuals. You're wrong.

You're right, numbers don't lie. Subs were highest in WotlK, which was a very casual expansion. Your argument suddenly falls apart.

Define "casual." What is a "very casual expansion"? What are you comparing it to?

Wrath was less casual than Cata and Mists.

- - - Updated - - -

Absolutely. If you want to see an "lfr isn't real raiding" advocate have fits, point out that original LFR Lei Shen and Durummu are both more difficult than some ICC / ToC / Ulduar bosses, and most of Naxx. So none of that must have been real raiding either.

Keyword being some. Even then, I can only think that the first several bosses in ICC, ulduar were easier than the 2 hardest bosses in LFR.
Its not real raiding, they get a stacking buff that awards effort in LFR. Its designed so that you always get to kill the boss in the end if you try enough. That isnt raiding.

[melodramocracy]

You're assuming WoW had a time where they didn't cater to casuals. You're wrong.

You're right, numbers don't lie. Subs were highest in WotlK, which was a very casual expansion. Your argument suddenly falls apart.

Most of these arguments should be viewed within the context of the game itself. Was vanilla more casual than EQ / AC / etc? Absolutely. Is it more casual now than it was when it was released? Absolutely.

Prior game comparisons aren't necessary, IMO. I think if you gave the average wow player a crystal ball back in '04, and let him see what the game would be like now, he'd probably laugh and unsub.

As for Wrath, don't underestimate the a) momentum that the game had as far as word of mouth via vanilla and tbc, b) the advertising that Blizzard put forth for Wrath (when's the last time you saw a wow tv commercial?), and c) the content and storyline itself. All of that played a bigger role in the sub spike than any single game element being easy or difficult.

[Barnabas]

Nobody ruined wow. The game just evolved into what you see today. A lot has changed but a lot has improved.

[melodramocracy]

Keyword being some. Even then, I can only think that the first several bosses in ICC, ulduar were easier than the 2 hardest bosses in LFR.
Its not real raiding, they get a stacking buff that awards effort in LFR. Its designed so that you always get to kill the boss in the end if you try enough. That isnt raiding.

That stacking buff was added long after the legitimacy arguments started about it.

[cityguy193]

That stacking buff was added long after the legitimacy arguments started about it.

Which solidified the fact that it is, and never was raiding by any metric other than just watching the lore.
Which isnt bad, its a different experience.

However, calling it raiding makes as much sense as calling farming cloth with several buddies, raiding, it just isnt it.

[oplawlz]

No, blizzard ruined wow by assuming that creating a more casual environment would be healthy for the game. Casual players are just being what they are, they did not make that call.

[derotitis]

I really don't think casual or hardcore players has anything to do with the number of subscriptions. The problem with WoW is that it is just getting to be old news.

It's not that it isn't fun to play or anything. It is simply a fact of life for MMO's. Really, all games go through this but MMO's just take a lot longer to die off. It is almost 10 years old now. Think about how much people change over that time. A lot of the gamers that started out with this game in the beginning probably have families or are in the early stages of their career. Being one of those people I simply don't have time to invest in this, or any other, MMO anymore.

The truth is Blizzard had to, and must still, know that MMO's decline after X amount of years. It would have been good strategy for them to begin installing features for the more casual crowd. Just in terms of slowing the bleeding. And, the simple introduction of those features certainly didn't cause people to unsub. People unsub because they are bored with the game, out of money or out of time.

It just isn't reasonable to think that people will play a game for decades at the kind of numbers WoW peaked at. Blaming "casuals"or "hardcores" is simply naively pointing fingers without considering what the normal trend is for MMO's. They ALL decline.

[De Lupe]

Considering how WoW is currently not ruined....the only correct answer is "no, they didn't".

[Monkeybrains]

BRB so start thread "Did Supposed 'Hard Core' players ruin WoW and how so".

EDIT: BTW Blizzard is laughing at all the "WoW" is dying threads. I guarantee they never thought they'd be able to milk $15 a month from MILLIONS of people for 9+ YEARS when the released WoW. Pretty sure Blizzard won folks! (myself included...don't even want to think about how much they've collected from me...but I've enjoyed the ride so far!)

[Deleted]

vanilla? casual as hell

bc even more fucking casual

wrath casualpalooza

cata? hardcore twist turn fail

mists CASUAL MIS CASUAL GONE MO CASUAL CASUAL @_@

Thats because the latest expansion is never casual friendly @_@

[melodramocracy]

Which solidified the fact that it is, and never was raiding by any metric other than just watching the lore.
Which isnt bad, its a different experience.

However, calling it raiding makes as much sense as calling farming cloth with several buddies, raiding, it just isnt it.

It doesn't solidify anything, because LFR objectively is raiding, it's just terribly easy. So was Gunship. So was Jaraxxus So was Marrowgar, etc. Difficulty isn't a factor in the definition. The only argument that you might have is a) how groups are formed for it, and b) how loot is distributed.

The whole argument is pointless anyhow. Many people refused to consider 10 mans to be real raiding either when they were introduced, same goes for normal mode. And people got over it.

[Regalbeast]

WoW is NOT ruined....still a great game. I have played since 2007 with lots of breaks in-between. I've played every expansion though, and I can say that MoP is still a ton of fun. I am currently taking another break from the game, but I've always enjoyed WoW and the changes it has made.

I'm also a casual....so no, I don't think I ruined the game.

[Etherius]

*Opens door*
Hey, sorry to intrude, I just needed some ice for my-
...
...
... I'll come back later.
*Closes door*

[Rehija]

most of Naxx40, since that was legitimately hard content

So Tell me, what was "hard" about Naxx40? To gather 40 ppl. ? To farm Shadow pots and Frost res. Gear ?

We first killed Thaddius with 32 ppl. while 8 where sitting at the entry area of his Room because these 8 people always had a latency over 300. 4HM ? We had fever issues with them then with C`thun. Loatheb ? Blessed with 8 Shadowpriests in Full AQ 40 Gear this fight was so boring that ppl. where yawning the whole fight.

At TBC it was more challenging to get the Healers ready for the Archimonde Fight by sending them into BG`s to get a Insignia then the Fight against Archimonde himself.

@ Topic

"Casuals" didn't ruin WoW, the ones who call themselves "Hardcore, Elitist" and the "special snowflakes" are these who are trying to ruin it.

Just my 2 cent

[Mormolyce]

So Tell me, what was "hard" about Naxx40? To gather 40 ppl. ?

To be fair, getting 40 people online is probably the hardest thing that has ever been in WoW by far.

[Kudos]

They even admit the hardcore thing in Cata was a complete disaster and even better hahaha because of It's name ''Cataclysm'' :P

Yet, sadly, it was in my opinion the best beginning of an expansion to date. I loved the dungeon difficulty, and earned my Drake from the heroic dungeons in all blue gear.

I'm a casual too, but some people's definition. My guild raided 6 hours a week. We still got to hard modes in BWD / BoT / Firelands and DS.

I don't raid anymore since my guild disbanded months ago, I instead leveled a new character on a new server for a different perspective. It's a nice change of pace.