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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    redemption means you are redeemed of something. thats it. stop bringing in religion and morals into something that doesnt require it.
    Redemption is a religious concept! It is absolutely about morals.

    illidan can be redeemed by the people of azeroth without changing himself. all he needs to do is prove himself.
    The only person that can redeem Illidan, is Illidan. I've already explained how, and it absolutely requires him to change who he is.

    For another example, this one from in-game: the satyr in Ashenvale that seeks redemption, Avrus Illwhisper. He had to abandon his satyr brethren and willingly sacrifice his own life to save a night elf child, something he absolutely would not have done before seeking redemption, in order to be redeemed. He had to change.

  2. #82
    Old God Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pebbleton View Post
    Why can't people stay dead just for once in this game?
    Um... plenty of people have stayed dead?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    Redemption is a religious concept! It is absolutely about morals.
    Disagree completely. I have extremely strong personal morals/conviction and I'm not even the slightest bit religious. Whether or not you strive to be a good person isn't always based in faith or fear of God/etc.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    Redemption is a religious concept! It is absolutely about morals
    and this is when i stop replying to you because thats idiotic. thinking redemption has anything to do with religion is insane
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
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  4. #84
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    First off people like to grossly exaggerate how many times people are revived or brought back. Yes it happens, but it would also be silly to ignore it's possibility in a game built on demons, undead, dragons and magic.

    I don't really care about the character at all, but I felt like his story was done really poorly in TBC. He was thrown in there because it was a recognizable name that players remembered from WC3. You barely saw him and basically just went to kill him.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Disagree completely. I have extremely strong personal morals/conviction and I'm not even the slightest bit religious. Whether or not you strive to be a good person isn't always based in faith or fear of God/etc.
    I'm not saying somebody has to be religious to be redeemed, I'm saying the concept of redemption comes from religion. The idea of redemption is that somebody atones for their past sins and is saved. In non-theological terms, it's somebody atoning for past misdeeds and living the rest of their life as a better person. But either way, it requires somebody to change.

    If Illidan just shows up and fights the Legion, but continues in his lust for power and doesn't otherwise change, he's not redeemed.

  6. #86
    Correction: Illidan's redemption wasn't in that CoT dungeon.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    lore in outland
    I know these words. Individually, they look familiar; together, they don't make sense.

  8. #88
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pebbleton View Post
    We can all agree some people should never have died. But the fact is, Illidan did die. Maybe this was a bad move from Blizzard part, but what's done, is done! I know them, and i know they will bring him back telling us something about the Twisting Nether. But that doesn't account for the fact they should've managed his story in a better way to begin with, and i'd rather see the game advancing.
    I would rather they correct mistakes they should never have made rather than sticking to the "oops, sorry, he's dead and there's no fixing it!".

    Also the lore does support for his return, as others mentioned Demons don't actually ever die, they are just sent back to their home realm weakened.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Murozond View Post
    Correction: Illidan's redemption wasn't in that CoT dungeon.
    are you suggesting theres going to be more caverns of time dungeons?
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    I would rather they correct mistakes they should never have made rather than sticking to the "oops, sorry, he's dead and there's no fixing it!".

    Also the lore does support for his return, as others mentioned Demons don't actually ever die, they are just sent back to their home realm weakened.
    What's Illidan's home realm? Remember, he's only half-demon, and even then that's only because he absorbed the energy from the Skull of Gul'dan, who wasn't a demon.

  11. #91
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    What's Illidan's home realm? Remember, he's only half-demon, and even then that's only because he absorbed the energy from the Skull of Gul'dan, who wasn't a demon.
    Race
    Demon
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/game/lor...idan-stormrage

    He became a Demon when he consumed the artifacts power, the Demons home realm is the Twisting Nether.

    after absorbing the energies of the demonic Skull of Gul'dan, Illidan became a demon

  12. #92
    [QUOTE=DaHomieG;22307471]Well he got his chance. Onto the next baddie.[/QUOTE

    But he's not just a "baddie", hell he's not even like any other expansion title bad guy in WoW. He's half demon, that opens up a lot of possibilities for him to be revived. Besides, his return would mean he would be a good guy or do something to redeem himself, Metzen has said that. We will still get a "next baddie" and Illidan.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/game/lor...idan-stormrage

    He became a Demon when he consumed the artifacts power, the Demons home realm is the Twisting Nether.
    But he's not a natural-born demon, and he's not from the Twisting Nether, and Gul'dan was not from the Twisting Nether. So it's not really a guarantee that his spirit would go there after he died.

    I mean, that's probably the excuse they'd use, but still. It's not a watertight story.

  14. #94
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by xinjun View Post
    Anub'arak is another that unexplicably showed up in multiple places :P At least Kael seemed to be undeadish in MT like he was reanimated or something.
    Anub'arak was EXTREMELY undead

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    But he's not a natural-born demon, and he's not from the Twisting Nether, and Gul'dan was not from the Twisting Nether. So it's not really a guarantee that his spirit would go there after he died.

    I mean, that's probably the excuse they'd use, but still. It's not a watertight story.
    A demon is a demon, I don't see the issue here. Whether he was born one or turned into one doesn't really matter.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Miyavi View Post
    Anub'arak was EXTREMELY undead
    Yeah, I guess. But was his revival even mentioned in-game? Maybe I missed it. It seems just like "Hey didn't we already kill that guy.." I mean I guess the Lich King could revive him at any time I just don't recall it being even implicated.
    Normal is the name for the mental disorder present in the majority of humanity.
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  17. #97
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    while i agree with most other people in that his story was handled poorly, his story has never been one i was terribly interested in. always seemed like the little emo brother. "wahh the girl i like chose my brother" and "i want more power, i know its bad but i can control it where so many others have failed"

    just my opinion however

  18. #98
    We never see anything about Anu'arak past. Not in WC3, and not in wow. He had lot of potential to be something, but he become a wasted boss in the worst raid in WotLK.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by xinjun View Post
    Yeah, I guess. But was his revival even mentioned in-game? Maybe I missed it. It seems just like "Hey didn't we already kill that guy.." I mean I guess the Lich King could revive him at any time I just don't recall it being even implicated.
    Well the Lich King did sort of drop us in the pit with Anub'arak for round two. He knew he was down there. Seemed implicit to me that he'd revived him for the purpose, because, you know, he's the Lich King.

  20. #100
    at least with Illidan returning at least it has a valid reason compared to kael'thas' "it was just a setback!" garbage, illidan is half demon (looks like part nathzrim to me) and they can be brought back from the dead since their soul wanders around in the nether when the body is destroyed (mal'ganis says hi)

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