Illidans redemption/revival wasnt the cot dungeon

[khalltusk]

This. People take Illidan's character and ASSUME he was always being swayed by the influence of the old gods. They ASSUME he must be insanely strong because he can contain the strength of the skull of gul'dan, when it truth that could have been weakening him and causing him to go insane the whole time. Everything that has ever made Illidan so badass in people's minds? Assumptions that he wasn't there just to cause trouble. (Which, based on his track record alone we can see he's usually just trying to cause trouble and get with Tyrande.)

I honestly wish they'd just left him dead and not bothered with this ressurection.

Since when did people assume Illidan was swayed by the old gods?

The only thing he was ever swayed by was more power. His gift from Sargeras was one such thing, hell in wc3 he goes after the skull of gul'dan because Arthas told him it had lots of power Illidan is a wow version of a crack addict. He needs this stuff. Same thing for the reason why we have the new world tree. He took some vials and made a new well (which is why he got busted and put in prison in the first place.

The only time aside from the cinematic that we saw much of illidan and heard him speak was in black temple when we're about to fight him. Other than that I think one or two quests where he appears at least in a vision/spectral form. Other than that we just learn of whats hes doing through some quests. We don't get to see much of him at all.

The lich king on the other hand was ever present (almost like a saturdays kids cartoon villain) Garry I feel has just about the right amount of "exposure".

I just think with illidan if they had explained properly why he had turned rather than "just lol insanity" would have been better. If we'd had known that since his defeat he feared the legion would hunt him down so he returns to outland to seal it off and bolster his forces so he can be safe etc and that he wasnt insane just went to extreme lengths to protect him self.

[lightofdawn]

I would love to see her forgive Illidan, if we say, fought against her, not to kill her but rather to try and make her see reason. At the end of the fight she would acknowledge that bringing back Illidan and forgiving him for his "crimes" is the right thing to do.

Heck, it would be awesome if she was present during the summoning, along with perhaps Tyrande and Malfurion.

i cant tell if we share a brain or just both think the same exact way... but anyways, yeah that would be amazing

[Drilnos]

I will laugh, very hard, if he comes back because he soulstoned himself.

[Rumred]

While i am not a big fan of just rezzing old bosses unless there is a good lore reason ( Rag since he was never really dead,Kel'thuzad ect) I am more then willing to overlook anything to bring Illidan back. He is a very interesting lore figure at least to me and his pressence and over all handling in BC was poor. You felt the presence of Vashj and her Naga/Kael and his blood elves more then Illidan. He was just locked away in his little roof top til you kill him save for one or two quick cameos. Also since he more then likely wouldn't be brought back as a full on villain but more of a anti hero of sorts who helps us but has his own agenda it will be fine by me.

[Faroth]

metzen confirmed on twitter that he wasnt referring to illidan showing up in cot and that he believes a spark of illidan is out there somewhere.

so now when people speculate about it you cant say "what if he was talking about the dungeon"

glad thats been cleared up.

Great, more bad fan fic from Blizzard incoming....

While i am not a big fan of just rezzing old bosses unless there is a good lore reason ( Rag since he was never really dead,Kel'thuzad ect) I am more then willing to overlook anything to bring Illidan back. He is a very interesting lore figure at least to me and his pressence and over all handling in BC was poor. You felt the presence of Vashj and her Naga/Kael and his blood elves more then Illidan. He was just locked away in his little roof top til you kill him save for one or two quick cameos. Also since he more then likely wouldn't be brought back as a full on villain but more of a anti hero of sorts who helps us but has his own agenda it will be fine by me.

I find him interesting because of his story being a tragedy. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and everything Illidan did was essentially plunging into questionable decisions for a mix of good intentions and completely selfish ones. Yeah, he could have been developed a bit more towards the end of BC, but the subtle hints of his activities worked really well in BC if you paid attention.

Vashj and Kael were trusted with vials of the Well of Eternity. He had Vashj draining the lakes in Zangarmarsh and creating one enormous lake in the center. What exactly do you THINK he was planning with that? I liked that subtlety instead of smashing players in the face repeatedly saying "RAWR, ILLIDAN BAD! HE DO BAD STUFF! SEE? THIS BAD! GO KILL HIM!" like they did with Arthas. A little open to interpretation and speculation is actually a great addition in MMOs.

Bringing him back is going to be hamfisted and cliche and ruin everything great about his story in my opinion. And yet, it's what the fans want.....

[Deleted]

Illidan will most likely join us to fight the legion, whenever that is. But only because he wants to escape their wrath.
there hopefully won't be much of a "redemption" story.

[Cooper]

I was not annoyed about having to kill him just the "lol he lost his mind" ¬_¬ oh rly so 10k years in jail didnt rot his brain but one defeat did? Least I know im not alone in thinking the lore was a train wreck

It wasn't just one defeat. It was one defeat after spending his entire life pursuing power - and one defeat that ensured that the Burning Legion and Kil'Jaeden in particular were coming for him. For all his power and all his supposed great destiny, he was doomed.

While the "Even Arthas could not defeat me line" was a little weird - though it would've worked if it had been "Even Arthas could not destroy me" - Illidan's character in Outland is perfectly in keeping with his character in Warcraft 3.

As for redemption? The only way a redemption story could work for Illidan is if he was completely stripped of all his power; that's the only way he would ever learn. But then not only is there a real chance he would just be bitter and attempt to regain his power, but if he weren't "cool demon guy" nobody would care about him. There's just no way a redemption story for Illidan can be good; his character is not self-reflective enough for it.

[Faroth]

People mean lore-wise. Illidan was an important and iconic character. At that time Blizzard didn't handle their in game lore this well. He didn't have a lot of build up to him and was not very active in TBC. For example Garrosh is being handled much better than Illidan. There are tons of quest surround his stories and a lot more in game dialogue. Old Bosses in WoW felt like they just wait there for us to kill.

Illidan created and commanded the orcs in Hellfire Citadel, he had Magtheridon imprisoned in order to keep making more fel orcs.
He gave vials of the Well of Eternity to Vashj and Kael, apparently planning on creating a new Well of Eternity in Outland just as he did on Hyjal.
He had demons on his doorstep that he had enslaved to his command and was preparing an army, plus his appearance in the zone was well done.

The only thing I didn't really understand was why he attacked Shattrath.

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It wasn't just one defeat. It was one defeat after spending his entire life pursuing power - and one defeat that ensured that the Burning Legion and Kil'Jaeden in particular were coming for him. For all his power and all his supposed great destiny, he was doomed.

While the "Even Arthas could not defeat me line" was a little weird - though it would've worked if it had been "Even Arthas could not destroy me" - Illidan's character in Outland is perfectly in keeping with his character in Warcraft 3.

As for redemption? The only way a redemption story could work for Illidan is if he was completely stripped of all his power; that's the only way he would ever learn. But then not only is there a real chance he would just be bitter and attempt to regain his power, but if he weren't "cool demon guy" nobody would care about him. There's just no way a redemption story for Illidan can be good; his character is not self-reflective enough for it.

He joined the Legion and failed before going after Arthas in Icecrown. I'd say "joined the Legion" counts as crazy in my book.

[Trassk]

Illidan should return and form a rebel faction of his own.

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The only thing I didn't really understand was why he attacked Shattrath.

because much like with garrosh, blizzard needed a valid reason for us to fight against him, even if it was implied and not shown.

[Faroth]

because much like with garrosh, blizzard needed a valid reason for us to fight against him, even if it was implied and not shown.

I guess, but I kinda felt like he had plenty of build up to make him a valid enemy prior to mentioning an attack on Shattrath.

Though even just the excuse that his paranoia drove him to see the draenei as equal to, or agents of, Kil'jaeden would work for me.

[khalltusk]

It wasn't just one defeat. It was one defeat after spending his entire life pursuing power - and one defeat that ensured that the Burning Legion and Kil'Jaeden in particular were coming for him. For all his power and all his supposed great destiny, he was doomed.

While the "Even Arthas could not defeat me line" was a little weird - though it would've worked if it had been "Even Arthas could not destroy me" - Illidan's character in Outland is perfectly in keeping with his character in Warcraft 3.

As for redemption? The only way a redemption story could work for Illidan is if he was completely stripped of all his power; that's the only way he would ever learn. But then not only is there a real chance he would just be bitter and attempt to regain his power, but if he weren't "cool demon guy" nobody would care about him. There's just no way a redemption story for Illidan can be good; his character is not self-reflective enough for it.

His character was not in keeping at all in TBC. he was just labeled insane. Warcraft 3 he was sane but had a lust for power. He went from a lust of power to insane to the point in thinking he had won against Arthas and was sealing him self off from everyone and everything in his temple. Thats not the same Illidan at all that we saw in wc3. Spending 10k years in a Jail cell should be proof enough that he had some mental fortitude tbh.

But I could forgive all that if we actually saw something of him in our questing. As Trassk said we needed a reason to kill him and the best they could come up with was attacking Shattrath :P

[The Hero of Legend]

I knew it, If we get a Legion based expansion next then I definitely see Illidan returning and helping us fight Kil'Jaeden (Assuming he's the end boss) Maybe we'll get Demon Hunter as a class?

[Cooper]

His character was not in keeping at all in TBC. he was just labeled insane. Warcraft 3 he was sane but had a lust for power. He went from a lust of power to insane to the point in thinking he had won against Arthas and was sealing him self off from everyone and everything in his temple.

He doesn't actually say he thought he won. He says that Arthas could not defeat him. Think about it. The guy was supposedly destined to greatness, being born with amber eyes (unlike his brother), spends his entire life pursuing power, even going so far as to ally with the Legion when it suited him, and then he's not only defeated - by a mere human, no less - but that defeat seals his fate. Kil'Jaeden wasn't going to just kill Illidan when he got his hands on him; Kil'jaeden was going to torture him in very horrible ways for a very, very long time.

Sealing himself off was also in keeping with Illidan's character from Warcraft 3. Even then he was more-or-less a loner.

Thats not the same Illidan at all that we saw in wc3. Spending 10k years in a Jail cell should be proof enough that he had some mental fortitude tbh.

Mental fortitude is a limited resource. Everybody has a breaking point. Losing to Arthas was Illidan's.

But I could forgive all that if we actually saw something of him in our questing. As Trassk said we needed a reason to kill him and the best they could come up with was attacking Shattrath :P

That's not true at all. There was creating fel orcs. There was enslaving the Broken. There was destroying Zangarmarsh in order to create a new Well of Eternity. These are all directly attributable to Illidan.

[Belisaurio]

I completely agree with OP.
Blizz need to put more effort in characters. Characters are the main tools to speak the story, all the events were done because of X or Y characters, and giving them more development, more quest to explain who they are, and why are there there, are the right points to start a well developed story.

Rend Blackhand: Last son of the first warchief (Blackhand!!). He is the "Dark Thrall", with his "Dark Horde", and we killed him!! But more than 75% of player base didn't know who the &%$ was this guy.
Kael'thas: The true king of blood elves. He become a boss in a 5-man dungeon!!! People din't know why he had a fel-crystal in his chest and why the last boss whas Shivarra.
Al'akir: The elemental lord of wind. Yeah, we know he was someone that should be killed, and we fought some of his minions because they had red bar over their heads. We know that his minions had something powerful to reverse the "curse of flesh", and then, we killed all of them and his masters!!! (fuu story!!)
Twin emperors: The emperors of a fallen kingdom, warding something evil (the first appearance of remains of an Old God!!). It was needed a council to start this war with Horde+Alliance+Dragons!! And nobody know who were the twin emperors...gj Blizz.
Sintharia: Mother of Onyxia and Nefarian and prime consort of Deathwing. Who? yes, the heroic boss after Cho'gall...
Zul'jin: Hero of the second war. Warchief of the amani (troll warriors that participated in first and second war!!!). Who? Nobody. He is not in game any more.
Anub'arak: Now I'm in the mid of a 5-man dungeon (that was a badass zone that they killed all his enchant...) and now I'm under a raid!!! with new textured skin!!!
etc...

And of course, Illidan. Maybe he is the most famous character without any good plot in game, but famous after all.

[Immitis]

Illidan will most likely join us to fight the legion, whenever that is. But only because he wants to escape their wrath.
there hopefully won't be much of a "redemption" story.

illidan never intended to actually work with the legion. they were always a stepping stone to him so he could get more power and help defend the world.

the burning legion was just a tool for him to get what he wanted.

i want to see illidan meet wrathion, since wrathion is pretty much the new illidan it would be nice to see how the two anti heroes react to eachother, maybe they would even work together, or maybe wrathion would think he was stupid for essentially using himself as a guinea pig and being to impulsive (skull of gul'dan)

either way hes going to be redeemed somehow, the only other way they could do it would be to just act as if most of the stuff in bc didnt happen, which i could see them doing and i would be fine with.

warcraft needs more gray characters, needs more dark anti heroes instead of the lawful good ones weve had so far.

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That's not true at all. There was creating fel orcs. There was enslaving the Broken. There was destroying Zangarmarsh in order to create a new Well of Eternity. These are all directly attributable to Illidan.

there was no explanation why he decided to enslave the broken when they were already his allies, theres no lore saying he was creating a new well of eternity thats a bunch of bullshit fan theories people came up with to try to figure out why the naga were ruining their own habitat and storing lots of water in a giant hole.

the fel orcs one partially makes sense, illidan isnt afraid to use powers like that to make his followers stronger, but that still doesnt explain why he ordered his forces to attack every thing in sight, illidan was smart he wasnt an idiot, the illidan from warcraft 3 wouldve atleast tried to work something out with the horde and alliance by sending some form of envoy, he wouldnt just outright attack them for no reason, nor would he attack the peaceful people of shattrath who had no intentions of bothering illidan and in fact shared the exact same goal of purging the legion from outland.

illidan wouldve been smart and wouldve tried to bring all of them into the fold to bolster his forces even more, instead what we got was a gurgling mad man just punching in every direction

[Wayne25uk]

I like how you all argue about how you think the story should be,when in fact the story is how blizzard wants it to be,not how the fans should think it be,so please shut the feck up

[khalltusk]

He doesn't actually say he thought he won. He says that Arthas could not defeat him. Think about it. The guy was supposedly destined to greatness, being born with amber eyes (unlike his brother), spends his entire life pursuing power, even going so far as to ally with the Legion when it suited him, and then he's not only defeated - by a mere human, no less - but that defeat seals his fate. Kil'Jaeden wasn't going to just kill Illidan when he got his hands on him; Kil'jaeden was going to torture him in very horrible ways for a very, very long time.

Sealing himself off was also in keeping with Illidan's character from Warcraft 3. Even then he was more-or-less a loner.




Mental fortitude is a limited resource. Everybody has a breaking point. Losing to Arthas was Illidan's.



That's not true at all. There was creating fel orcs. There was enslaving the Broken. There was destroying Zangarmarsh in order to create a new Well of Eternity. These are all directly attributable to Illidan.

You didnt see in Vanilla where Malfurion states that Illidans lost his mind?

"Malfurion Stormrage says: Cenarius fights at my side. Illidan sits atop his throne in Outland – brooding. I'm afraid that the loss to Arthas proved to be his breaking point. Madness has embraced him, Remulos. He replays the events in his mind a thousand times per day, but in his mind, he is the victor and Arthas is utterly defeated. He is too far gone, old friend. I fear that the time may soon come that our bond is tested and it will not be as it was at the Well in Zin-Azshari."

From that we can indeed see he thought he was the victor. He really was not the same Character, he was just labeled insane for the most part and it was a shame I wanted to see more of an anti hero or more truthfully just more of illidan have him showing up a bit more. (thats my real gripe)

As far as I knew Vasjh was still fairly loyal to illidan so will give you the points about Zangar marsh. Fel Orcs while brutal were signed in via Kargath who wanted to be stronger, so while Illidan gave them a source of power to do so he didnt force (most) of them to be fel orcs.

The main issue was him ordering his Blood elves to wipe out Shattrath for no real reason. As for the broken and enslaving them its not really in keeping with his personality from what we saw of wc3, it did happen but its just another point of his character was a fair bit different than what we remembered.

[Belisaurio]

I like how you all argue about how you think the story should be,when in fact the story is how blizzard wants it to be,not how the fans should think it be,so please shut the feck up

I can't agree.
I want a well explained story. Nothing more. If Blizzard likes his story, then good for them, but create new quests, new animations/videos, something that appear X or Y characters to explain why they are doing this or why they are here.
If Blizzard wants Illidan to be a bad boss, then put some quest to explain that .Doesn't matter if it's a bad story, but maybe we can understand something, like Arthas with his "Perma-Lich king or undead will win" or "Bipolar" Garrosh.

[Immitis]

I like how you all argue about how you think the story should be,when in fact the story is how blizzard wants it to be,not how the fans should think it be,so please shut the feck up

blizzard clearly agrees with people otherwise they wouldnt want to bring him back in the first place.

if there was never any fan input 90% of all stories and characters in fiction would be radically different.

just because they have final say doesnt mean they are always right, even blizzard admits this from time to time, for one reason or another even they cant do the story how they want because of the medium or time constraints or because they couldnt think of something right at that moment.

if blizzard could do a redo alot of things would be different, but because in the majority of cases they cant hit reset there are some things blizzard has to live with because you cant go back.

tldr: not even blizzard knows or has the story where they want it to be all the time so stop being such a jerk

[Deleted]

illidan never intended to actually work with the legion. they were always a stepping stone to him so he could get more power and help defend the world.

the burning legion was just a tool for him to get what he wanted.

i want to see illidan meet wrathion, since wrathion is pretty much the new illidan it would be nice to see how the two anti heroes react to eachother, maybe they would even work together, or maybe wrathion would think he was stupid for essentially using himself as a guinea pig and being to impulsive (skull of gul'dan)

either way hes going to be redeemed somehow, the only other way they could do it would be to just act as if most of the stuff in bc didnt happen, which i could see them doing and i would be fine with.

warcraft needs more gray characters, needs more dark anti heroes instead of the lawful good ones weve had so far.

Ofc they where a tool for him to get power. That's really all he wants. That is why he would most likely be on our side, since he failed the legion in WC3 and hid in outland instead.

I really just don't want to see a huge "i'm sorry, i'm really a good guy!" redemption. I rather see us having no other choice but to work with him rather. they don't need to redeem him for him to work with us.

Illidan dos what he dos because he's a powerhungry addict. He and wrathion would most likely have a hard time working together.