Illidans redemption/revival wasnt the cot dungeon

[Cooper]

You didnt see in Vanilla where Malfurion states that Illidans lost his mind?

"Malfurion Stormrage says: Cenarius fights at my side. Illidan sits atop his throne in Outland – brooding. I'm afraid that the loss to Arthas proved to be his breaking point. Madness has embraced him, Remulos. He replays the events in his mind a thousand times per day, but in his mind, he is the victor and Arthas is utterly defeated. He is too far gone, old friend. I fear that the time may soon come that our bond is tested and it will not be as it was at the Well in Zin-Azshari."

Fair enough, although I'm not sure how Malfurion would know what Illidan is up to, with the Dark Portal being closed at the time and all. Still, it's not unbelievable that losing to Arthas would break Illidan, exactly as Malfurion says.

From that we can indeed see he thought he was the victor. He really was not the same Character, he was just labeled insane for the most part and it was a shame I wanted to see more of an anti hero or more truthfully just more of illidan have him showing up a bit more. (thats my real gripe)

Then people would be voicing the same complaints they voiced about Arthas in WotLK. It's a fine line, one that Blizzard so far has not been able to manage.

As far as I knew Vasjh was still fairly loyal to illidan so will give you the points about Zangar marsh. Fel Orcs while brutal were signed in via Kargath who wanted to be stronger, so while Illidan gave them a source of power to do so he didnt force (most) of them to be fel orcs.

That doesn't change the fact that he was feeding demon blood to orcs.

The main issue was him ordering his Blood elves to wipe out Shattrath for no real reason.

"Imprisoned for ten thousand years. Banished from my own homeland. And now you dare enter my realm?

As for the broken and enslaving them its not really in keeping with his personality from what we saw of wc3, it did happen but its just another point of his character was a fair bit different than what we remembered.

It was absolutely in keeping with Illidan's character. The man was all about power and rationalizing his own selfish acts. It's a very short step from that to being a slaver, not to mention that the Naga likely would have encouraged it.

[Buu]

metzen confirmed on twitter that he wasnt referring to illidan showing up in cot and that he believes a spark of illidan is out there somewhere.

so now when people speculate about it you cant say "what if he was talking about the dungeon"

glad thats been cleared up.

Me too. It was clear to me that Well of Eternity had NOTHING to do with his comment of redemption for Illidan, but not for Arthas.

[Immitis]

Ofc they where a tool for him to get power. That's really all he wants. That is why he would most likely be on our side, since he failed the legion in WC3 and hid in outland instead.

I really just don't want to see a huge "i'm sorry, i'm really a good guy!" redemption. I rather see us having no other choice but to work with him rather. they don't need to redeem him for him to work with us.

Illidan dos what he dos because he's a powerhungry addict. He and wrathion would most likely have a hard time working together.

yeah im not suggesting they turn him into a goody two shoes and apologize to anyone, but they will probably have him do something that proves himself in a way that people have to atleast somewhat respect him and have to admit they need his help.

they can redeem illidan without taking away from his character or changing him.

[Buu]

tldr: not even blizzard knows or has the story where they want it to be all the time so stop being such a jerk

Course, someone mistaken Blizzard with BiowEAre...

[khalltusk]

Fair enough, although I'm not sure how Malfurion would know what Illidan is up to, with the Dark Portal being closed at the time and all. Still, it's not unbelievable that losing to Arthas would break Illidan, exactly as Malfurion says.



Then people would be voicing the same complaints they voiced about Arthas in WotLK.



That doesn't change the fact that he was feeding demon blood to orcs.







It was absolutely in keeping with Illidan's character. The man was all about power and rationalizing his own selfish acts. It's a very short step from that to being a slaver, not to mention that the Naga likely would have encouraged it.

I think it was to do with the emerald dream and the fact they are twins (complete speculation here) so maybe something of their bond let him know of his brothers situation?

I think with the TBC - Wrath situation we went from No bad guy showing up/ hardly showing up to saturday morning kids cartoon villains style every corner hes around every bush hes behind. Cata did the same as TBC deathwing flew around but we didnt feel or at least I didnt feel engaged. At least in mop they appear to have hit a sweet spot.

I still feel it was not in keeping with his character enslaving the broken when they were his allies anyways but as I said I could overlook all of it if there was more explanation of what was going on. Instead all we had was hes lost his mind. Vasjh and kael pretty much acted on their own.

[Cooper]

they can redeem illidan without taking away from his character or changing him.

The whole point of redemption is change.

[Immitis]

The whole point of redemption is change.

no it isnt. the point of redemption is to be redeemed for things you did wrong. you dont have to become a different person to right wrongs.

[DaHomieG]

Why can't people stay dead just for once in this game?

This.

Why does everyone have a hard-on for Illidan? I mean yeah he was cool in WC3, and had his fame in TBC, but come on, resurrecting him now? What the hell it makes no sense and doesn't fit in anywhere.

[Immitis]

This.

Why does everyone have a hard-on for Illidan? I mean yeah he was cool in WC3, and had his fame in TBC, but come on, resurrecting him now? What the hell it makes no sense and doesn't fit in anywhere.

because tbc was horrible.

[McNeil]

You guys should follow the advice of Kael'Thas Sunstrider:

[Cooper]

no it isnt. the point of redemption is to be redeemed for things you did wrong. you dont have to become a different person to right wrongs.

You really don't understand what redemption is, or entails. It absolutely requires change. It's not just saying sorry or paying debts. It's being saved from sin. For Illidan to be redeemed, he would at the very least he would have to give up his lust for power, and more likely give up power altogether.

For example: for Darth Vader to be "redeemed", he had save his son and turn on the Emperor, acts he previously would not have been capable of because he would not have recognized the evil being done, or at least not cared. Darth Vader's redemption absolutely required his character to change.

[wariofan1]

The reason why he would be redeemed/revived is because they fucked up his lore in outland in the first place!

If we go by this logic are you aware how many characters we'd need to revive? Deathwing for starters.

Either way, looking forward to the inevitable Illidan return.

[Immitis]

please dont bring religion into this. redemption is simply being redeemed for something, you dont have to change, you dont have to become a better person you just have to do something that redeems yourself.

for some people changing themselves can LEAD to redemption but it is not the end all be all of redemption.

there are plenty of people throughout fiction and history that have redeemed themselves without changing who they are.

[Z3ROR]

Well... Demons are transferred back to the Twisting Nether upon defeat, aren't they? Illidan became a demon as well because of Sargaras' actions on him. Doesn't this mean that Illidan can be summoned again?

[wariofan1]

Well... Demons are transferred back to the Twisting Nether upon defeat, aren't they? Illidan became a demon as well because of Sargaras' actions on him. Doesn't this mean that Illidan can be summoned again?

I don't think that's all demons, I think there was something about it only being the Nathrezim. Illidan was also only half-demon. Sargeras never really touched Illidan either, it was the Skull of Gul'dan that twisted him.

[Immitis]

I don't think that's all demons, I think there was something about it only being the Nathrezim. Illidan was also only half-demon.

he did look like a nathrezim though. i guess they could make the claim that he was a pseudo nathrezim so the same rules apply to him

[Cooper]

please dont bring religion into this. redemption is simply being redeemed for something, you dont have to change, you dont have to become a better person you just have to do something that redeems yourself.

Perhaps the fact that you're trying to define the word using the word itself should clue you into the fact that there's something wrong with your concept of it.

there are plenty of people throughout fiction and history that have redeemed themselves without changing who they are.

No. There aren't.

[khalltusk]

If we go by this logic are you aware how many characters we'd need to revive? Deathwing for starters.

Either way, looking forward to the inevitable Illidan return.

Deathwing, well aside from the fact he was supposed to be cunning bla bla bla, they just went the cheap route of "He's insane".

Its like when all else fails hit the insanity button.

[DaHomieG]

because tbc was horrible.

Well he got his chance. Onto the next baddie.

[Immitis]

Perhaps the fact that you're trying to define the word using the word itself should clue you into the fact that there's something wrong with your concept of it.



No. There aren't.

redemption means you are redeemed of something. thats it. stop bringing in religion and morals into something that doesnt require it.

illidan can be redeemed by the people of azeroth without changing himself. all he needs to do is prove himself.

- - - Updated - - -

Well he got his chance. Onto the next baddie.

illidan isnt a baddie and if he returned he would be an ally.