Flex Lockout - how does it work?

[brothernads]

Does anyone know how the Flex lockout is implemented? How will it work from week-to-week?

Example:
- Week 1 - I form a 14-person raid that queues for Flex Wing 1 and kills the first three bosses, but doesn't get to Sha of Pride.
- Week 2 - I group 10 of the same ppl from Week 1 plus three newcomers that haven't set foot in SoO yet, extend my lockout and queue for Flex Wing 1...what do we see upon zoning in? All trash/bosses dead through 3rd boss (as would be the case today in Normals)? Does the appearance of newcomers force us to start fresh?

Alternative using above facts:
- Week 1 - 14-person team clears Flex Wing 1.
- Week 2 - 10 of the same ppl from week 1 plus 3 newcomers that haven't set foot in SoO yet try to extend Week 1 lockout and queue for Wing 2. Is it possible even though 3 ppl haven't cleared the first wing at all? (i.e., currently in LFR, you have to clear previous wings to be able to queue for later wings -- is this how Flex works?)

Any insight on this is appreciated - I haven't come across a solid explanation from Blizzard.

[Puri]

As far as I've seen on the PTR there is no way to extend a flex lockout, just as you cannot extend a lfr lockout.

[Vargur]

I think it's like LFR, only loot lock, not bosses.

[brothernads]

I see - so you have to start fresh every week, or can you at least start at the beginning of a wing that you haven't cleared (assuming you've cleared everything before at least once)?

[judgementofantonidas]

Does anyone know how the Flex lockout is implemented? How will it work from week-to-week?

Example:
- Week 1 - I form a 14-person raid that queues for Flex Wing 1 and kills the first three bosses, but doesn't get to Sha of Pride.
- Week 2 - I group 10 of the same ppl from Week 1 plus three newcomers that haven't set foot in SoO yet, extend my lockout and queue for Flex Wing 1...what do we see upon zoning in? All trash/bosses dead through 3rd boss (as would be the case today in Normals)? Does the appearance of newcomers force us to start fresh?

Alternative using above facts:
- Week 1 - 14-person team clears Flex Wing 1.
- Week 2 - 10 of the same ppl from week 1 plus 3 newcomers that haven't set foot in SoO yet try to extend Week 1 lockout and queue for Wing 2. Is it possible even though 3 ppl haven't cleared the first wing at all? (i.e., currently in LFR, you have to clear previous wings to be able to queue for later wings -- is this how Flex works?)

Any insight on this is appreciated - I haven't come across a solid explanation from Blizzard.

Flex is normal with the traditional 25% end of tier nerf applied. lockout? Doesn't really compute.

[Puri]

I see - so you have to start fresh every week, or can you at least start at the beginning of a wing that you haven't cleared (assuming you've cleared everything before at least once)?

You can start at any wing you like (just like LFR). I cannot tell if it requires you to have cleared the previous wing at least once, on the PTR there was no such restriction and the wings were not released in the right order.

[brothernads]

Flex is normal with the traditional 25% end of tier nerf applied. lockout? Doesn't really compute.

But in normals, if you end a week on Boss 7 of 13, you can pick up the next week on Boss 8 by extending your lockout. In Flex, it's looking like that style of lockout is not applicable. That was my primary question.

[Vargur]

Flex is normal with the traditional 25% end of tier nerf applied. lockout? Doesn't really compute.

No, Flex is LFR with better loot. It's not intended and I hope it will never replace normal, but I have a feeling I will be wrong... I have a feeling it will hurt the game a lot more than LFR did.

[lawomous]

You have to "queue" for Flex with a pre-formed raid in the Instances menu, and you get zoned into a fresh run. From that point it's like LFR. If you killed those bosses already you can't get loot again, and you have to clear through all the earlier bosses to get to the end just like a fresh LFR run of a "wing" of 3-4 bosses.

[judgementofantonidas]

No, Flex is LFR with better loot. It's not intended and I hope it will never replace normal, but I have a feeling I will be wrong... I have a feeling it will hurt the game a lot more than LFR did.

I am with you there. It looks like another way for guilds that never did their own work to gain carries earlier on in the tier.

[brothernads]

You have to "queue" for Flex with a pre-formed raid in the Instances menu, and you get zoned into a fresh run. From that point it's like LFR. If you killed those bosses already you can't get loot again, and you have to clear through all the earlier bosses to get to the end just like a fresh LFR run.

Ok, what about the following week? It seems the concept of having a "bookmark" (so to speak) to save your place in the raid does not apply...is that right? You basically have to start each week fresh, or at least with a fresh wing assuming you've previously downed all earlier bosses?

So if I clear 2 of 3 bosses in a wing, then I have to do those same bosses the following week and I can't just "extend" and skip to the third boss?

[Deleted]

Ok, what about the following week? It seems the concept of having a "bookmark" (so to speak) to save your place in the raid does not apply...is that right? You basically have to start each week fresh, or at least with a fresh wing assuming you've previously downed all earlier bosses?

So if I clear 2 of 3 bosses in a wing, then I have to do those same bosses the following week and I can't just "extend" and skip to the third boss?

Yep, it's like LFR that way.

it does come in seperate wings though, so it's not like you have to clear all 12 bosses to get to number 13 though.

- - - Updated - - -

I am with you there. It looks like another way for guilds that never did their own work to gain carries earlier on in the tier.

God forbid someone has fun in wow without eating their vegetables first!

[brothernads]

Yep, it's like LFR that way.

it does come in seperate wings though, so it's not like you have to clear all 12 bosses to get to number 13 though.

Thanks - expanding on this...what if my group clears Wing 1 in Week 1, and wants to queue directly for Wing 2 in Week 2 but we have 3 additional people that haven't finished Wing 1? Are we prevented from going straight to Wing 2?

[Deleted]

Thanks - expanding on this...what if my group clears Wing 1 in Week 1, and wants to queue directly for Wing 2 in Week 2 but we have 3 additional people that haven't finished Wing 1? Are we prevented from going straight to Wing 2?

Nope. You can add them to the group once you are inside wing 2.

[brothernads]

Nope. You can add them to the group once you are inside wing 2.

Ok - thanks a lot!

[MoanaLisa]

No, Flex is LFR with better loot. It's not intended and I hope it will never replace normal, but I have a feeling I will be wrong... I have a feeling it will hurt the game a lot more than LFR did.

I think normal raiding will take a hit from Flex. How big a hit remains to be seen but it may well be sizable so I agree with you on that.

I don't think it will replace normal exactly but I do think that Flex1 with lesser difficulty and Flex2 with normal difficulty may exist someday in the future. If they intend to keep normal difficulty where it is now a mid-point between that and LFR will be useful and likely pretty popular.

Once everything settles down I expect guilds that run primarily Flex will try Normal after clearing Flex and the ones that can manage that will poke at Heroic once in a while or a tier behind as some do now. It won't be that much different than normal guilds taking on heroics after they've cleared their tier. And heroic progression guilds should burn through all of it quickly and leave it behind for what they do. If they're smart and really that good they won't bother with Flex at all since Normal will be completely within their capability and the gear will be better. And if they do bother with it then that's their business and up to them.

Where I don't agree is that flex is LFR with better loot. A group of 10+ people that you play with all the time is going to be a totally different experience than LFR and most everything that people truly dislike about LFR will be a no-show in Flex.

[judgementofantonidas]

I think normal raiding will take a hit from Flex. How big a hit remains to be seen but it may well be sizable so I agree with you on that.

I don't think it will replace normal exactly but I do think that Flex1 with lesser difficulty and Flex2 with normal difficulty may exist someday in the future. If they intend to keep normal difficulty where it is now a mid-point between that and LFR will be useful and likely pretty popular.

Once everything settles down I expect guilds that run primarily Flex will try Normal after clearing Flex and the ones that can manage that will poke at Heroic once in a while or a tier behind as some do now. It won't be that much different than normal guilds taking on heroics after they've cleared their tier. And heroic progression guilds should burn through all of it quickly and leave it behind for what they do. If they're smart and really that good they won't bother with Flex at all since Normal will be completely within their capability and the gear will be better. And if they do bother with it then that's their business and up to them.

Where I don't agree is that flex is LFR with better loot. A group of 10+ people that you play with all the time is going to be a totally different experience than LFR and most everything that people truly dislike about LFR will be a no-show in Flex.

I honestly think that it will take a big hit. Ask yourself to answer this honestly. With the overwhelming number of players who would rather never progress past LFR why would adding the ability to be carried by players with known performance from other guilds let alone other servers and reap the reward of better gear be any incentive for those same players to ever step up their game and attempt a normal raid? I envision middle of the line guilds taking large hits as the guilds that would already purchase kills from better players late expansion need not wait. Now high end guilds can turn selling carries into even more of a business as they will not need to run Flex but can certainly free up 8 players on an off night and sell a full clear to those unscrupulous players who can sleep at night claiming their full clear as progress after they bought said kill.

Few and far between are the players that take pride in doing it right and doing it themselves. It will just be too much temptation.

I am not even going to go into the whole "yeah we cleared it on LFR", crap that will just be magnified as now Flex will be the new LFR.

[Count Zero]

I honestly think that it will take a big hit.

I read your posts and what I see is someone fighting an entity that exists largely in your own head. How do the people you speak of (whose numbers and practices and mindsets I think you're grossly over-exaggerating) doing what they do affect you in any way ? Do you seriously feel like your normal/heroic kills, and the effort you and your guildies put into them, are cheapened by someone else either clearing lfr/flex or buying normal/heroic clears from better players than them ?

If you're not playing because it's fun, you have to step back and remember this is a game.

[Deja Thoris]

I think normal raiding will take a hit from Flex. How big a hit remains to be seen but it may well be sizable so I agree with you on that.

I agree with this but I think there will be a total net gain in the organised raiding scene. That's to say that there are currently people not doing organised raiding that will be attracted by flex, I think its a great thing.

[judgementofantonidas]

I read your posts and what I see is someone fighting an entity that exists largely in your own head. How do the people you speak of (whose numbers and practices and mindsets I think you're grossly over-exaggerating) doing what they do affect you in any way ? Do you seriously feel like your normal/heroic kills, and the effort you and your guildies put into them, are cheapened by someone else either clearing lfr/flex or buying normal/heroic clears from better players than them ?

If you're not playing because it's fun, you have to step back and remember this is a game.

World renowned cyclist wins, world renowned cyclist wins by cheating. Both are the same right? All the people he beat while cheating should not feel that their sport was cheapened right?