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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Cronosmash View Post
    I didn't see anybody talk about Glyph of Divine shield also, I think it'll help for a fair amount too.
    know why?

    Because Glyph of TV is mandatory, and so are Glyphs of Divine Protection and of Burden of Guilt.

  2. #22
    Stood in the Fire Cronosmash's Avatar
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    About the SS against SH thing: SS MAY help on survivability, but if you keep judging with SH even the low self FoL will help you live as much as it.

    And think like this: You can Instant Flash of Light for 100k your partner so your healer can pick you up much better.

    Remember: THIS GAME IS MADE TO PLAY WITH A TEAM.

    In my games, my focus is to dispel my healer and my healer dispel me mostly. Everyone peels off everyone and I help my healer heals making my survivability go up.

    If anyone dies, the team loses. So your partner life is YOUR life. That's why Selfless Healer is the 99% most used talent.

    Of course you can just SS anyone else also, but you can absorv 50k with 6 secs to get the shield up or heal 80k to 200k, it's a easy choice.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Glyph of TV is mandatory.

    Glyph of BoG not so much, since we can always switch to SoJ - but I think about 80% of time it'll be there.

    Glyph of Divine Prot is situational. Like I said: against casters we won't use it. But as much as that, against casters UmbSpirit gets better and so does Glyph of Divine Shield. I'd say about 50% of the time also.

    Think about it.
    "I notice my rating actually boosts when I remember to have fun. Playing competitively while also enjoying yourself and focussing on having good games instead of getting rating is way more important.
    After 2.2k the fun devolves into a twisted realm suffering and despair and you will quit pvp from extreme traumatic stress and you will probably xfer to Moon Guard and join some Belf rp guild and become a prostitute in Silvermoon."by Clukclukbewm

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Cronosmash View Post

    Glyph of TV is mandatory.

    Glyph of BoG not so much, since we can always switch to SoJ - but I think about 80% of time it'll be there.

    Glyph of Divine Prot is situational. Like I said: against casters we won't use it. But as much as that, against casters UmbSpirit gets better and so does Glyph of Divine Shield. I'd say about 50% of the time also.

    Think about it.
    Glyph of TV - no arguing here.

    But Glyph of BoG -thats a different beast.
    Lets agree that SoJ is godawful as a catch-up mechanic, because , well, when I've finally caught up with the one who kited me, I don't need the slow, I needed it when I was trying to catch-up.
    As weak as it may be, I am positive that Glyph of BoG will become mandatory, so combining about 4 abilities, Ret will actually be able to pursue people with greater rate of success.

    Glyph of DP - yeah, it depends on enemy' setup, but I'm just negative about Glyph of Divine Shield, since it will consume only what, 5 debuffs for 5% of health each?
    And dont forget to factor in Battle Fatique(which goes up to 45% come 5.4).
    Which brings me to muse if they ever thought about buffing up Glyph of Avenging Wrath - it doesnt hold any water even compared to Glyph of Divine Shield.
    Last edited by Morally Grey Storm; 2013-09-08 at 02:04 PM.

  4. #24
    Deleted
    are you forgetting long arm of the law, just saying. Also seal switching for SoJ is kinda mandatory.

    glyph of divine protection i am not really fan of, since it makes one of your three anti-caster defensive spells not that good. I rather have good 40% reduction for magic only rather than half-assed middle ground. With divine protection, devotion aura and hand of purity i have 70% spell damage reduction

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    while your logic is right(proactive is better than reactive), amount absorbed(its pathetic) and mechanic of said talent(6 seconds pause before absorb even applies after casting Sacred SHield on anybody) makes Selfless Healer vastly superior due to increased healing on teammates: it is not unnatural to dish out 100K Flashes of Light(which is perfectly possible due to guaranteed critical FoL after killing blow), no to mention that even 2-stack Selfless Healer allows for unineterruptable cast.

    Selfless Healer is truly better than Sacred Shield.
    You can start fight when you already have sacred shield going on. And its mathematically similar "healing" as selfless healing but its superior because it lasts 30 seconds and you dont have to cast it again during that time and it refreshes the 5sec absorb itself. Over 35k damage mitigation is a lot, specially considering that its constantly going on. You can have it whole fight.

    I honestly dont understand this all fuzz about "retri not having good defence". I have zero issues beating everyone in duels in 5.4. Sure I lose duels here and there, but who doesnt?
    Last edited by mmoc090a203492; 2013-09-08 at 02:27 PM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post
    are you forgetting long arm of the law, just saying.
    no I am not.
    LAotL is pathetic btw, but still better than SoL or PoJ, which is why it is picked: you just pick the least rotten apple out of 3 rotten apples.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post
    Also seal switching for SoJ is kinda mandatory.
    Switching to SoJ is in no way "mandatory".
    If you are confident you can stay ontop of your target and/or there is a teammate providing a slow, then it is "mandatory" to switch to SoTruth.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post

    glyph of divine protection i am not really fan of, since it makes one of your three anti-caster defensive spells not that good. I rather have good 40% reduction for magic only rather than half-assed middle ground. With divine protection, devotion aura and hand of purity i have 70% spell damage reduction
    I am no fan for half-assed middle ground aswell, but I just hate it when a rogue/warrior/fecal druid pounds on me and I cant do jack shit about it, so I have my DP glyphed ><

    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post
    You can start fight when you already have sacred shield going on.
    still doesnt help with Sacred Shield being godawful for Ret.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post
    And its mathematically similar "healing" as selfless healing but its superior...
    but it's not, as Selfless Healer heals for 100% stronger when fully stacked.
    and for the record, mathematically =/= practically


    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post
    Over 35k damage mitigation is a lot
    cut that by 45% and we're talking about real numbers.(battle fatique)


    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post
    specially considering that its constantly going on. You can have it whole fight.
    so is Selfless Healer.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post
    I honestly dont understand this all fuzz about "retri not having good defence". I have zero issues beating everyone in duels in 5.4. Sure I lose duels here and there, but who doesnt?
    there's no fuzz.

    there are just two kinds of people: the ones who tell facts, and the ones who don't accept facts.

    Fact is, Ret defence is weak.

  6. #26
    Deleted
    If retri were awful, people wouldnt get gladiators with them. You just need to play better.

    For the record, "defence" is a lot more than just "i make bubble". Retri has lots of tools to defend himself. Sure retri can be killed, but that can be said for all classes so please stop that crap.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post
    If retri were awful, people wouldnt get gladiators with them. You just need to play better.
    it doesnt make any sense.
    Vanguards getting Gladiator title each season does not suddenly equate to "Errething is okay with Ret you just have to play better durr hurr".
    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post
    You just need to play better.
    For the record, "defence" is a lot more than just "i make bubble". Retri has lots of tools to defend himself. Sure retri can be killed, but that can be said for all classes so please stop that crap.
    Everybody has lots of tools, but we were speaking stricly from the point of defensive CD's.

    If we start taking into account all the tools all the classes\specs posess, we might find out Ret is worse off than most classes, so to speak.

  8. #28
    Deleted
    Sure, if you can only use bubble to safe yourself, then you might view that retri has bad defensive capability. But not all of us are as horrible players.

  9. #29
    Stood in the Fire Cronosmash's Avatar
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    Sadly the fact remains that Ret defense/survivability is still LOWER than others. But everyone can get killed. And Ret have tools to get arround it. The big point here is Ret is harder to play.

    About New BoG, LAotL and SoJ I've been using in all combinations:

    The way I see it, LAotL still not ideal, but the best option for talent.

    The big thing about BoG and SoJ is: With only Glyph of BoG we can GET to the target, but right when we get there, he can escape really easily if he have some kind of sprint/snare.

    Remember that we have to spend a GCD to Emancipate/Freedom, so the problem I've seen is: We Judge, get to the target, get some hits and lose range again. Of course, assuming the target have the tools and want to kite us.

    Keeps on: out of range, on range, out of range.

    Situational SoJ, especialy switching right on the burst time, keeps the target on our range of melee 100% of the time and the Melee Swings + SoJ damage + guaranteed CS/TV make up for the loss of the DoT after the time expires.

    I know it sucks to seal switch, but it's worth on many levels: defensive SoJ + run out of LoS for defensive works also - and I'm talking live here, on 5.4 with BoG on top of it, we will kite like druids.

    This is a gameplay thing. Positioning and controling position of the game is crucial and we have this underrated tool. SoJ deals 4% less damage than SoT on a 2 mins DPS run on the dummy. I really think the melee range + kiting is worth on the DPS and it can be a burst and survivability tool as well.

    BoG will be there mostly but the glyph it not the talent and we will have a hard time keeping on target with SoT and BoG only.

    ---

    About Glyph of Divine Shield: It'll heal 10% for every harm effect. When we're being focused we will almost always have about 10 of them, but since it limits to 50% of the health, we will get a 200k heals. Subtract BFatigue: 100k heals on bubble. Now remember we may have to bubble and heal up since our healer can be CC'd or out of range or we can't dispel him. On top of that, there is a LOT of times we bubble and get a Mass Dispel/Shattering Trow INSTANT on us and we our bubble get on and of right away. So this might give us the 2 or 3 secs needed for survivability.

    Our survivability is really low, so we have to be creative and flexible to make the most of what feel tools we have.
    "I notice my rating actually boosts when I remember to have fun. Playing competitively while also enjoying yourself and focussing on having good games instead of getting rating is way more important.
    After 2.2k the fun devolves into a twisted realm suffering and despair and you will quit pvp from extreme traumatic stress and you will probably xfer to Moon Guard and join some Belf rp guild and become a prostitute in Silvermoon."by Clukclukbewm

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post
    Sure, if you can only use bubble to safe yourself, then you might view that retri has bad defensive capability. But not all of us are as horrible players.
    sure, if you provide any backup to your badmouthing towards me.
    Because if we start calling each other names, I'll feth you up so good you will wish you never opened your mouth to begin with.

  11. #31
    Deleted
    I dont buy that retri is specially hard to play. One example i could bring, is that ww monk is far more difficult to make work.

    Also, in battlegrounds i am always top damage dealer and lead the killing blow numbers even though i know that killing blows are not really meter for how good something is but I mostly really kill stuff in bg
    Last edited by mmoc090a203492; 2013-09-08 at 03:16 PM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post
    I dont buy that retri is specially hard to play. One example i could bring, is that ww monk is far more difficult to make work.
    no spec in the game is hard to play.
    they are hard to master.

  13. #33
    Deleted
    Sacred shield is not affected by battle fatigue btw, so that kinda tells me that you dont really know what you are talking about.

    Also, cant expect best survivability if you have one of the best bursts in the game. Retri hits HARD
    Last edited by mmoc090a203492; 2013-09-08 at 03:31 PM.

  14. #34
    Stood in the Fire Cronosmash's Avatar
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    Ret is harder becouse most DPS don't have to pay attention if the other DPS needs a Freedom, if they should or not BoP someone, or the right time to Sac the healer. Don't have to worry so much about the time to go defensive since most can hold up alive much better. Others have much more and much better peels and CC.

    Think how as a Ret you have to pay twice more attention to your team than other DPS except for SPriests and Enhancers maybe. But SPriests have better peels/survivability and Enchancers are much more ofensive.

    Think how Mage/Lock/Druid can CC out of most anything. Think how BM don't have to worry about half as much for relying on pets, being ranged and very mobile, plus the CC/Burst. Monks defensives are AMAZING and on low CD, plus possibly the best mobility great peels.

    The big thing here is the mind orientation.

    Most classes/specs can focus on the enemy team and Ret need to give instant responses and predict most of the game on both sides. It's much more wide mind, therefore harder to master and therefore to play at higher levels.
    "I notice my rating actually boosts when I remember to have fun. Playing competitively while also enjoying yourself and focussing on having good games instead of getting rating is way more important.
    After 2.2k the fun devolves into a twisted realm suffering and despair and you will quit pvp from extreme traumatic stress and you will probably xfer to Moon Guard and join some Belf rp guild and become a prostitute in Silvermoon."by Clukclukbewm

  15. #35
    Deleted
    I would not call monk defences amazing, monk is easily controlled.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Velshin View Post
    Don't mix up CC and snare with defense please. By lacking defense they mean an actual cd yes we have bubble but it's 5 mins cd. The thing is with ret is that the moment you don't have bubble and they focus target you in arena? you are dead no room to recover at all, divine protection and devo aura doesn't help much either.
    The problem with ret being focused so much is because their burst is way too high. When faced, other teams can't afford to not be on rets. That's just how it is. More defensive cooldowns would probably force blizz to nerf burst or CC in pvp. I personally think rets are great the way they are and now they can actually kite and recuperate similar to feral playstyle.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post
    Sacred shield is not affected by battle fatigue btw, so that kinda tells me that you dont really know what you are talking about.

    Also, cant expect best survivability if you have one of the best bursts in the game. Retri hits HARD
    huh?

    As of the upcoming Patch 5.3, slated for release on Tuesday, May 21, 2013, Blizzard is adjusting Battle Fatigue again:

    PvP Season Update
    Battle Fatigue now reduces the effectiveness of healing and absorb spells and abilities by 45% (was 30%).

    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=134735/...tigue#comments
    Last edited by Morally Grey Storm; 2013-09-08 at 03:48 PM.

  18. #38
    Deleted
    In game battle fatigue just says it reduces healing. 5.4

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post
    In game battle fatigue just says it reduces healing. 5.4
    tooltip is not updated to show all of it.

    BF decreases healing, %healing(recuperate, pet sac, etc) and absorbs.

    if it didnt decrease absorbs aswell, it would be a plain buff for Disc priests and a few other classes, while nerfing others.
    common sense and logic.
    Last edited by Morally Grey Storm; 2013-09-08 at 03:55 PM.

  20. #40
    Deleted
    But it still doesnt matter, since mathematically sacred shield is similar "healing" as selfless healer, but still better because you dont need to cast it again for 30second and it CONSTANTLY keeps mitigating over 35k damage. The 5second mitigation time refreshes itself. Also you may not be able to cast judgement on "time" always. Sacred shield is quaranteed mitigation 24/7.

    Sure selfless healer is better if you need to heal allies. But I think that even in that case, sacred shield is better in practise.
    Last edited by mmoc090a203492; 2013-09-08 at 04:05 PM.

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