Holy Paladin 5.4

[Deleted]

For those bashing EF on thok heroic. It's still the best talent to pick Imo. Even if you don't use EF that much in p1, it's super strong in p2, especially the poison phase. I always make sure the current kite target has an EF hot on him, so that he wont die to the ongoing unavoidable damage in that phase. We also did not have any druid or monk. What makes SH good btw? I can cram in a holy radiance between every single screech, it's just about timing. (not saying i havn't failed, but it's easilly doable)

I explained with details in an earlier post why I prefer SH over EF on Thok. Basically because P2 is really easy to heal. We had never problems with that. Our problem came in P1 when several ppl(say 4-5) goes under that critical health value where next screech will kill him. What you do with EF? This is the question I asked myself and changed to SH. Because HR isn't enough for all those if they are in different groups because range isn't enough. Ofc I can rely on other healers but I dont' want to do that if I can save those people myself with LoD even though it lowers my overall HPS a bit. Overall HPS comes from shaman/druid/monk, paladin might as well just concentrate on keeping those targets that are in danger of dying alive (LoD heals those critical targets and gives them illuminated healing which prevents them from dying on next screech).

Like I said, it is lower HPS overall, but killing a boss is not always about HPS. Think about this, 2nd time P1 and the only ress is used. You keep everyone topped with EF and huge HPS and then 1 healer makes a mistake with dispel and 1 target dies to screech after poison tick. That person just didn't happen to have EF on and died and it's a wipe. Of course it's nice to be on top of the meters but I personally choose killing the boss.

Of course this is only my opinion. Bash me if you want, but I had thought about this for a while and SH just feels better overall due to mechanics of the fight.

EDIT: My apologies, Pacer had already answered to this, which I did miss by replying instantly so I won't forget

[Lucyrotten]

Realistically on Thok we're there for devo chains and to bop the druid/shaman so they can tranq/ag.

This fight makes me want to delete my toon.

That said...SH. Not really sure why (in 25m) anyone would seriously consider another option. I get that 10m heavily favors EF through the rest of the fights but on 25m it's not not so clear cut.

[bouchbagfett]

Selfless healer with 6 HR and LoD targets is incredibly close to EF when you ditch all your spirit regardless of fight mechanics. In 10man HR/LoD rarely hit 6 so it is an easy choice. In 25 you can really pull off the spec of blanket no control without seeing a drop in output. But it is sad to think of you guys in 25m if SH is just as viable because SH really has a hard cap on how much healing, especially burst you can do.

[Freia]

Realistically on Thok we're there for devo chains and to bop the druid/shaman so they can tranq/ag.

This fight makes me want to delete my toon.

That said...SH. Not really sure why (in 25m) anyone would seriously consider another option. I get that 10m heavily favors EF through the rest of the fights but on 25m it's not not so clear cut.

Pretty much all of this. It is frickin sad.

[Deleted]

Pretty much all of this. It is frickin sad.

When we progressed on Thok 25HC I switched to SH obviously and for the next ID farm I stayed SH for all Fights (didn't do Malkorok though) and in 25 HC SH can pull some good numbers. I very rarely hat IH drop from people and managed on all fights top 50 on a lot top 20 and on a few top 10 ranks.

BUT IT IS Fn BORING.

Went back to EF for Blackfuse progress.

[Freia]

When we progressed on Thok 25HC I switched to SH obviously and for the next ID farm I stayed SH for all Fights (didn't do Malkorok though) and in 25 HC SH can pull some good numbers. I very rarely hat IH drop from people and managed on all fights top 50 on a lot top 20 and on a few top 10 ranks.

BUT IT IS Fn BORING.

Went back to EF for Blackfuse progress.

Yea I was SH on Blackfuse attempts since my guild didn't mention we were going to look at it because we had some healers out for thok until after I already regemmed and reforged for SH. It really is probably near same healing wise. The "its sad" was mostly about Lucy's remarks on playing a paladin for Thok.

[Clrg]

Do you recommend SH for h-protectors 10s? we are 3 healing it and when the last boss is at 34%~(sun) and everyone and theirs family have garrote, i cant keep 3hp EF in everybody my mana dont sustain it.

[Alyajna]

Has anyone really tried out sacred shield on 25m?
I switched to it last night, dumping all haste that I could (we're working on Garrosh normal), and my healing went up significantly..and that was with pretty bad uptime (mostly 70%, highest was like 84%) I was doing pretty poorly with EF and I don't like SH. I went from something like 80-90ks to 120-150ks. SS was my second heal most attempts, mostly around 15% of my healing. Part of the problem though is I heal with 2 disc priest 2 shamans and a druid. Lots of absorbs and hots and really too many healers. That might of been effecting the EF playstyle greatly. But anyway, these results made me wonder why I didn't see it discussed more. I kept it on both tanks, and switched the 3rd charge from me to people I knew took excessive damage. I got better with uptimes near our last attempts with some weak auras, but that's something that really needs work on.

[Istyle]

Selfless healer is really higher output on every single fight in 25m Heroic SoO except for Malkorok of course, the only downfall is the lack of tank healing, and when your tanks vengeance cap the entire fight tank damage can get hectic.

[Berianther]

Yea I was SH on Blackfuse attempts since my guild didn't mention we were going to look at it because we had some healers out for thok until after I already regemmed and reforged for SH. It really is probably near same healing wise. The "its sad" was mostly about Lucy's remarks on playing a paladin for Thok.

That's exactly what I did. I was comparing SH with another hpally that went EF and SH is definitely competitive using our strat on H Blackfuse. I might just stay SH for every fight next week just to avoid the reforge/regemming needed for EF, now that Malkorok is on farm.

[Deleted]

Has anyone really tried out sacred shield on 25m?

Have not tried SS for 25 M but on Garrosh I managed #6 Holy Pally with SH.

SH has problems with Tank heal since the Beacon transfer is considerably less. For our blackfuse attempts I did in SH we had some hectic moments were the tank dropped. Thats why I will go EF when we return to it. On all other fights it has not been an issue.

[Deleted]

SH has problems with Tank heal since the Beacon transfer is considerably less. For our blackfuse attempts I did in SH we had some hectic moments were the tank dropped. Thats why I will go EF when we return to it. On all other fights it has not been an issue.

I have to agree with this I would never use SH on blackfuse simply because of the insane damage the tanks are taking. Although im sure it is competitive numbers wise as mastery is very strong on that fight.

[Virsta1]

I think SH would actually pull better numbers on HC Blackfuse, but as pacer said the tank damage is extremely high. I doubled all of our healers on the tanks. Something SH could never do. I have not really played with SS either. EF and SH are both very competitive in 25 HC.

[Auralol]

I think SH would actually pull better numbers on HC Blackfuse, but as pacer said the tank damage is extremely high. I doubled all of our healers on the tanks. Something SH could never do. I have not really played with SS either. EF and SH are both very competitive in 25 HC.

Virsta you are a beast

[Goobadin]

Long and short:

Want to give SH a try in 25's for the next raid lock. Don't want to break the bank doing so! So I've been playing with AMR to get a setup that requires minimal changes on the fly. Trying to maintain 7170 BP, 16K Spirit while buffed for EF, and be able to drop the spirit for SH. What I've come up with is a gem strategy that only requires 3 320 mastery -> 320 Spirit Gems, and utilizes primarily Orange Int + Mastery gems (to replace the flask change to spirit). End results look like this:

EF: 34.99% Haste, 34.28% Mastery, 16k Spirit
SH: 35.46% Haste, 43.31% Mastery, 10.5K Spirit

My question is: For the SH aspect, are the numbers acceptable? Do I require more Mastery for the build to even be worth it? While I understand neither build will be fully optimal, I'm trying to balance that with "feasibility" for swapping right now. Any suggestions from those switching back and forth or insights you might have to offer WRT SH stats would be appreciated.

[Deleted]

About the whole hpally utility on thok debate, here are my 2 cents

I play a MW monk and a Hpally both in 10m HC progression.

We're on thok atm and I'm litterally forced to take my paladin while I could just faceroll and ignore the whole kicking thing with my monk, because of our devo/hop abilities.
But, while I had a way higher output with my monk, It was obvious healing wasn't stable enough : had I an ReM missing on someone and I was then helpless to save him. Those monks attempts had a shitty comp anyway (disc/rdruid/mw). Now we 4 heal it (rsham/disc/rdruid/hpally), with our prot paladin solotanking it.

So now I'm stuck on my pally who doesnt even has 2P. Playing with SH and I've got real shit output even when i'm basically not failing my rotation. This fight is just getting me sick.

[Lucyrotten]

I spend a lot of money on gems and reforging.

You can sort of make things work if you don't go with a full regem but it will be suboptimal and neither spec will perform to max advantage. If it's farm and you just want to get a feel for it, then do whatever. I'm fine with sort of cheesing a mastery EF build for Malkorok at this point but an int SH for Thok seems like a real bad idea since the EH is part of the benefit of the mastery SH build on that fight.

I'm talking about 25H, in other formats YMMV.

[Berianther]

for 25H, my pally is currently optimally gemmed/reforged for SH only. I'm at 40% haste, 55% mastery, 11k spirit using the sha/blackfuse trinket.
For fights that I do as EF (mainly talking about Malkorok), use spirit flask for 1k more spirit, and undo some reforges from spirit->haste until I'm at 35% cap. That'll give enough spirit for a good 35% haste mastery stacked EF build with enough spirit.

[Deleted]

for 25H, my pally is currently optimally gemmed/reforged for SH only. I'm at 40% haste, 55% mastery, 11k spirit using the sha/blackfuse trinket.

11K sounds like a lot. I have a similar setup but never need much more then 9.xk Spirit. I basically gem Mastery and reforge so I have mastery on every piece and then forge for haste (since most my gear is spirit/mastery I just forge spirit to haste).

Using Spirit Flask is not very optimal since you get half the value from using Spirit flask/food.

[Berianther]

11K sounds like a lot. I have a similar setup but never need much more then 9.xk Spirit. I basically gem Mastery and reforge so I have mastery on every piece and then forge for haste (since most my gear is spirit/mastery I just forge spirit to haste).

Using Spirit Flask is not very optimal since you get half the value from using Spirit flask/food.

I couldn't get below 10.5k spirit with my gear no matter how I reforge/gem.