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  1. #1
    The Unstoppable Force Trassk's Avatar
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    Sep 2011
    Having tea with Flowey

    5.4 outcome, my thoughts (obvious spoilers)

    So, here we are. I went to bed last night thinking what would be the outcome, but didn't linger on it, and see the outcome.

    And here it is, the new warchief of the horde, vol'jin.

    I thought how I could express my feelings on the outcome, but honestly, Thrall did that for me, in the first three words he said in the cinematic.

    "You disappoint me"

    And thats all I felt from this. There was no great devastation, there was no absolute bliss. All it become was just.. air out of a balloon. Just disappointment.

    So, better I go over all the reasons why with each character and context to the events. There were some small points i liked in this outcome, but the ultimate resolution was just.. meh.


    Probably the only good thing I got from this cinematic, was seeing how Thrall was prepared to kill Garrosh with the doomhammer. Before people complain this was out of character from Thrall, that just highlights how little to know of his character. In past warcraft stories, like the novel cycle of hatred, Thrall did indeed crush the skull of one of his own, who couldn't let go of his hate for humans, so when it comes down to it, we see here Thrall was prepared to kill Garrosh, and correct giving him power in the first place.
    Thrall then givng his mantle, which was rightfully his, over to vol'jin, well in a way it shows how Thrall has matured to the point he doesn't wish for power over people, just to help them, it also means, as of this moment, because of Thralls decision, orcs have lost there mantle in the horde, despite the games story since the beginning being about orcs and humans, the game makers have shifted it into unfamiliar grounds, and tbh, it feels also unreal, like a parallel story arch from the comic book.
    I'm happy Thralls alive, but whatever this means for the orcs..

    The orcs:
    This is the biggest problem now I see in the story. As I say, orcs have been the main demographic of the orcs storyline since the beginning, just as humans have been the main demographic in the alliance (which is even shown now with Varian, Jaina and Anduin). This sudden change of role, with vol'jin being in power, doesn't give me any hope for the orcs, at odds, despite them being the face of the horde for so long, they will be bumped down, and that just makes the horde into something else.

    What can I say about him. I like vol'jin overall, but this sudden taking the torch is.. just such a removal from the hordes storyline. Well he's shown to be a good commander, and will he is a far better option then Garrosh, having him as warchief just leaves the story making no sense. Imagine your an orc player the first time, you read stories about how orcs formed the horde, how it began on draenor with the orcs, how they were enslaved by the legion, then by the humans, rescued by Thrall, doomhammer sacrificing his life for them, moving to a new land, building there homes there, calling there land durotar, and there city orgrimmar. So a new orc player finds himself in durotar, he goes to orgrimmar, he goes to Grommash hold, everything so far is about orcs and orgrimmar is the hordes capital.. just to find.. the troll leader as his defacto leader.
    Tell me, how they begins to make sense in anyones mind. People will say 'change is good', but in this case, its not so good, its just dropping the pale.

    TBH, I don't really care anymore. Given everything else that disappointed me in this final cinematic, this was like the final nail in the coffin, but by this stage I don't give a shit. So he's alive, and facing 'justice' by the pandaren, what, there gonna tickle his feet for the next 20 years? What a mulling waste that could have given some enjoyment, but whatever.

    And now the alliance side of things.

    I've hated this character since he first came into warcraft story much like Garrosh, but over time he developed and matured, and it shows here. I still don't like him much, but at least he shows a far more mature and kingly attitude then any other alliance leader. Not much more need be said about him, he did what he came to do and left, thats that.

    I can't begin to describe this, but best I can say is, the Jaina I use to know and like from WC3 and on, is now officially dead to me. This thing looking like Jaina isn't her anymore, they couldn't have butchered her character anymore if they tried. He's literally become the sylvanas of the alliance, cold, unfeeling, and overall unpleasent to think about. For a character who use to inspire great promise in peace, she's not that character anymore. I did write in a long review I did of tides of war, the Jaina I knew once died in that book, and none more is it apparent then here. She doesn't even regard Thrall as her friend anymore, despite Garrosh being defeated as she wanted. Honestly, Jaina doesn't exist anymore, she's just a clone of her father now.

    Not much be said, he's the good guy kid, he wants peace, end of.

    The alliance:
    I'm just gonna say this now, but can you alliance whiners, dear god, shut the hell up! You got your victory, you defeated Garrosh, your alliance is now stronger then ever, and you have nothing toi complain about, coming out on top of all this. If you can't even take that for what it is, your never going to, so if you still feel disappointed in this outcome, i have no sympathy for you. Enjoy your human only story.


    Taran Zhu.
    Kind of glad he survived, guess Garrosh can't kill anyone he tries to without a bomb. And he's right, in he and the pandaren surviing justice on Garrosh for what he did, it would prevent the horde and alliance fighting over who should get to. But, knowing the pandaren, they are obviously not going to kill him, despite Tara having every reason to. Might as well shove Garrosh in a box and have him as a blow up villian for a later story, because thats all he is now.


    Overall, I'm not happy, not sad, not angry, not elated. I'm just.. pfffff..

    My main disappointment really though, comes from how the orcs, as I say, are now reduced to nothing in this story, a farce even. We're still see orcish structures around, we're still have the orcs as a playable race, but there whole demographic and history has now become meaningless in the story. The whole purpose of the story was to have orcs be the race that overcame things, that showed they were not monsters, and held honor, as well as brotherhood with the rest of the horde.
    In the recent story arch, blizzard has outright butchered everything i loved about the orcs, made them into the bad guys again, and even in the end, make it they are no longer the demographic of the horde. In a way, the orcs storyline in warcraft ended this day, and that just feels ... well, dead.

    The developers once said warcraft was about orcs vs humans, and it has been since the beginning right to to this point. Now I've had people private posting me saying I need to stop thinking about the horde as orcs.. yet these are usually alliance posters, who despite the orcs now being booted off the story, still have there human leaders representing the alliance, Varian, Jaina, Anduin.

    This makes the story of warcraft now, officially, into Trolls vs Humans.

    I didn't have high expectations for what was to come, but i at least expected them to think outside the box. And the funniest thing is.. when they said about how the new warchief be something nobody expected, well, EVERYONE EXPECTED THIS. They can't even respect there own playerbase enough to think they could figure it out.

    maybe I should race change all my orcs to trolls now, since they seems to be what the devs what all orc players to do.

    say whatever you like to this, honestly, it can't touch on anything, I'm not angry, i'm not happy, I'm just, as Thrall said it, disappointed.
    Last edited by Trassk; 2013-09-12 at 11:06 AM.


  2. #2
    I don't see the trolls replacing the orcs as the Horde's main troops, despite the fact that Vol'jin's in charge now. We'll just have to wait and see what Blizz's going to do with it in 5.5 and the next x-pack.

  3. #3
    Garrosh is alive and thrall isnt warchief - best outcome possible

  4. #4
    When the leaders turn aside and it is revealed that Vol'jin is the warchief I felt like someone kicked me in the gut with steel toe boots, I have never been less excited to be a member of the Horde
    Last edited by Thorqin; 2013-09-12 at 11:07 AM.

  5. #5
    The story changes, what did you expect? America wasn't always the superpower of the world. They are now. That's what's so good about this story. I wonder how things will come to pass.

  6. #6
    Trolls vs Humans... sounds like a good title for most forums on the internet. And really, isn't it kinda sad focusing so much on race? Think their commitment to the Horde is much more important...
    Quote Originally Posted by kbarh View Post
    may i suggest you check out wowwiki or any similar site, it's Grom that orders the murder of Cairne

  7. #7
    The Unstoppable Force Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Garrosh is alive and thrall isnt warchief - best outcome possible
    Garrosh is reduced to a blow up villain, and your not following a troll as warchief.


  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Garrosh is reduced to a blow up villain, and your not following a troll as warchief.
    Oh, it isnt that bad Garrosh will get out after 10 years for good behaviour - and while he is still in jail i can bring him delicious cake to get rid of all that sadness

    Also Vol'jin isnt so bad, if he begs me very nicely i "may" do job or two for him as well Anyway im happy with outcome.

  9. #9
    I can get the disappointment, but if you really think the Orcs are going to be lessened by a lot, you are crazy, they ARE the Horde. I'm interested in seeing where things go from here.

  10. #10
    Im glad I cancelled my sub.

  11. #11
    The Unstoppable Force Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighto73 View Post
    I can get the disappointment, but if you really think the Orcs are going to be lessened by a lot, you are crazy, they ARE the Horde. I'm interested in seeing where things go from here.
    yeah right. eveything in the last few patches, including this ending, outright stripped the orcs of any worth they had to the story.


  12. #12
    I'm dissapointed. I belived Metzen when he said we would get our Warchief back. Well, he lied.

    Vol'jin didnt held the Horde together, Thrall did. We put up with the tyrant because THRALL was there, not because we were following Vol'jin.

    Blizzard keeps trying to put Warchiefs down our throats, but we know who our true Warchief is.

    They should stop trying to force the storyline and let the natural thing happen, which is the True Warchief returning to the seat.

    They are just too bad at storytelling, the last 2 expansions were an aberration to the lore.

    Also, Pandaren being the race that suffered Garrosh's the most? No one told this Panda that the HORDE was the one that suffered Garrosh the most? The cutscene was full of wrong stuff...

    The only conclusion i have about this is: Chris Metzen is a liar.

    I disagree with you Trassk, this cdoesnt make the story of Warcraft Trolls vs Humans, this has killed the story of Warcraft. Untill they put in charge our true Warchief, the horde will be no more.
    Thrall always was, is, and will be my true Warchief. Garrosh and Vol'jin werent/arent.

  13. #13
    I was pleased by the cinematic, but just because I'm Alliance at heart. Varian was epic. Like seriously, when he was as angry and aggressive as Garrosh, I didn't like him. But the change he went through in MoP really comes together here. He takes no crap from anyone and shows clearly who's boss after SoO.
    What can i say, Proud to be Alliance.
    Now I hope that will hold through to next expac.

  14. #14
    Immortal The Glitch's Avatar
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    Nov 2009
    Litwak's Arcade Sunny Scotland!
    I'm loving the shake up, it's nice for a change to see them maybe edging away from Orc's V Humans, (I'm still hoping that some day we will see an Alliance leader that isn't human!) I think Vol'jin has a good forward point for new storylines, can't wait to see what comes next

  15. #15
    I have to applaud Blizzard on their little bait 'n switch with the whole 'least expected' warchief thing. Everyone thought it was going to be Vol'jin, because he's the most obvious candidate (leader of the rebellion and all that), except most wrote him off because of the 'least expected' line, making him, well, the least expected Warchief. Well done.
    My biggest issue is that he's also the least interesting choice...
    I do hope, however, this means they'll contine the multi-racial trend in their story telling they've been keeping up this expansion, and that a large portion of that trickles over to the Alliance, because, c'mon, we're more than just humans, you know?

    Ultimately, though, I'm very disappointed in Varian just up and leaving. I'm not saying he should have disbanded or even demilitarized the Horde, but at least demand to have a peace summit. Have the Horde withdraw from Alliance lands (Ashenvale and Gilneas being prime among them), have them help repair the damages they did, have them do anything. Instead he just... left, with no assurances that the war would be over. That's not what a king does, that's being a naive moron.

    As for Jaina, I believe it's a fairly good case of Break the Cutie. She was a kind, gentle idealist, striving for peace, until the Horde completely destroyed her home -again- driving her to a breakdown, and leaving her bitter and cold. It's a good story, if not a happy one, and if she does become the Alliance's Sylvanas, the overal story will only benefit from that.
    Last edited by Lynneiah; 2013-09-12 at 11:24 AM.

  16. #16
    The climax is what it's supposed to be for the end of a conflict - hollow and exhausted. Besides it's not end of the story (WoW), it's an end of a chapter (Mop) which they pulled off much better compared to Cata.
    WoW killers are like the end of the world, they come and go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    yeah, see the developers just flipped you the finger.

  17. #17
    Hmm, however, with Vol'jin as Warchief, do you think the orcs are written out the story? I think you misinterpret the result. Vol'jin will be the watcher over the family that is the horde. I am pretty sure the orcs themselves will fall under guidance of Thrall again to focus more strongly on their shamanistic heritage without Thrall also being burdoned with the mantle of Warchief to have to look after the other races too. Vol'jin now will have to use his cunning to keep check on Sylvanas and to keep Gallywix from selling his people again. I think he's more suited there then Thrall to start with.
    I'm an altoholic since 2005.

  18. #18
    Pandaren Monk scarecrowz's Avatar
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    Sep 2009
    Trassk thread:

    Angry about everything: check.
    Unsatisfied: check.
    Hates everyone but Orcs: check.

    IMHO it is time for Orcs to take a backseat in the Horde. They were the governing power and the majority of the Horde but with the losses they have sustained with their "leader" and disgraced Warchief I believe it's time. We will never know how many of the Orcs were Garrosh loyalists but they are all dead/imprisoned now. A new Horde is rising Trassk. Get used to it.

  19. #19
    Like you, as a long-time player. I continually see the game morph into something different. In many cases, change is good and helps us progress, but in this case, the horde without an orc as their leader is not the horde.
    I am disappointed, but alas, there is nothing that can be done to change it at this point. I understand the wide-reaching expanse of the Troll race, and if there was a unification of all Troll races through the appointment of Vol'jin in an attempt to crush the alliance I would be all for it, but it more appears he is there to be an alliance lapdog.
    Anyway, here's hoping for a break out of the forsaken into their own faction aligned with Blood Elves.
    Thanks for the post!

  20. #20
    Scarab Lord miffy23's Avatar
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    May 2010
    Some points I share, others I think you're blowing out of proportion.

    Trolls pushing orcs away - nah. I don't see why an Orc has to lead the Horde, it doesn't make sense in the WoW universe anymore. The Horde from Warcraft is gone, it's become something else over the last few expansions, that should be obvious. Clinging to the same old narrative isn't that satisfying either.

    Also, the Horde cinematic was MUCH more satisfying than the Alliance version, loved Gallywix taking his hat and all of the faction leaders submitting (Sylvanas only gives a nod, badass). While I was extremely disappointed at the original Alliance cinematic, the Horde one softened it a bit.

    Vol'jin doesn't come as a surprise, nor is he the wrong choice. It works, and it looked cool in the Horde cinematic too. It's just a letdown for us Lor'themar fanboys.

    The only thing that was truly annoying about this ending was Garrosh surviving. What - the - hell. If they don't come up with a truly amazing story for him after this I won't forgive them, it's such a freaking copout.

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