Primary Stats 5.4 (Assassination)

[Assaris]

I know that when I get the 2p the priority must be Crit > Mastery > Haste, but right now my core tells me that I'm going to be the last person to get the tier, kinda sucks, but I'm not here to cry. Without the tier and the nerf at the RPPM trinkets some rogues are using Mastery > Haste ~= Crit, like me, cuz' of the low number of single target fights. Without the 2p the SdC tells me to reforge Haste > Mastery > Crit, like ToT patch and it makes me confuse. So here is my question what are you using? And why are you using?

Thanks and sorry my poor english.

[Kulestu]

What's with everyone's guild holding tier bonuses from Rogues? I get not giving us 4pc as it's arguably not going to be BiS, but 2pc changes our stat priority, that's semi-major.

[Assaris]

Yep, but I want to know without the 2p since I won't have it any time soon.

[Squirl]

I'm still Mastery > Haste > Crit. Haste is good because it still affects the meta and now also affects the cloak. Together, they're a pretty large chunk of your damage. However, the same rule applies in SoO that applied in ToT: haste suffers more from time off target and mastery suffers less/benefits more from poor/amazing RNG. And still, the DPS difference is so small that it's a playstyle choice you can make.

I prefer mastery because it's a way more consistent stat. During progression, consistency goes a long way.

This will probably change once I get my 2pc. I'll defer to ShC when that time comes, which will hopefully be tonight. I'm itching to clear SoO on my rogue after doing it on my hunter.

[intrinsc]

I just got T16 2PC and ShC is wanting me to go crit on gems and reforging. I'm running numbers first before I pull the trigger to see what's optimal.

After playing around with ShC(SimC is still doing its thing) the numbers, like people suggested, come pretty much closer than ever, with Mastery taking the lead(like Squirl said), but much closer than before. I ended up with this pretty balanced stat distribution: http://shadowcraft.mmo-mumble.com/us...GJXM/OKSi+sOkv

[Larada]

After messing with ShC for a bit the other day I'm going Haste>Mastery>Crit which was about 214dps more from my ToT forges being Mastery>Haste>Crit. Going to a Crit centric build was about 800dps lower than Haste>mastery. This is all with an ilvl around 550. I wanted to play with Combat a bit so going haste made that easy. The stats are all soo close in value its a flip floppy game in ShC.

I think Crit will be amazing with that 2pc, Haste and Mastery probably being close to equal.

[Fluorescent0]

I just got the 2pc and I found the optimal point on shadowcraft for me being balanced mastery and crit and haste slightly higher (~2k).

[Kulestu]

I will probably try to balance mastery and crit and forgo haste, for the same reason that I did this tier. I like the reliability of mastery and I find crit's randomness to at least be more reliable than haste.

[Fluorescent0]

I will probably try to balance mastery and crit and forgo haste, for the same reason that I did this tier. I like the reliability of mastery and I find crit's randomness to at least be more reliable than haste.

With haste only effecting high-chance procs (cloak and meta) much of the randomness is actually gone.

[Kulestu]

True, but I also think that Haste is less effective for AoE than crit/mastery, unless I'm seriously confused and Deadly doesn't/can't crit. Could also be wrong on the damage bonus of critting vs getting an extra FoK out, but I would assume that crit scales significantly better in AoE situations.

[Coldkil]

I know that when I get the 2p the priority must be Crit > Mastery > Haste

With 2t16, the priority is more like Crit = Mastery = Haste; if ShC tell you to refoge to crit is basically because you're loaded with mastery/haste while the stat weights suggest you to balance the three stats. Being crit usually a low priority stat, it's normal that we need to get some more via reforges.

Without the 2p the SdC tells me to reforge Haste > Mastery > Crit

Which is again pretty normal - you are ToT geared, very likely with 2 RPMM trinkets, legendary meta and cloak hence haste is slightly better than mastery, like for all 5.2 patch. Nothing wrong in here.

Anyway the old 5.2 discussion in this case still stands: even if haste is slightly better on paper, the dps amount it grants is still tied to RNG; mastery on the other side still gives you a solid and reliable dps increase in any situation so it's a perfectly viable choice. Atm due to my gear (even ShC says it) i still reforge for mastery, but when i get 2t16 everything will cahnge and as said above, i will try to balance the three stats.

For more detalis and a good analysis, here's a good read for you all http://roguechat.wordpress.com/2013/...changes-guide/

[Kael]

True, but I also think that Haste is less effective for AoE than crit/mastery, unless I'm seriously confused and Deadly doesn't/can't crit. Could also be wrong on the damage bonus of critting vs getting an extra FoK out, but I would assume that crit scales significantly better in AoE situations.

Deadly can crit, but AoE is also affected by the cloak proc (and thus mastery). Would be worth tossing into a sim to check... although the cloak requires some targeting.

All 3 stats should be fairly "reliable" across all situations now, I'd think, but Fluor or Fiery or any of our other engine-crafters are welcome to chime in if they've tested patchwerk vs. cleave vs. AoE (small) vs. AoE (large).

[slime]

Yep, but I want to know without the 2p since I won't have it any time soon.

Or you could get mildly lucky and win them both with rolls on celestials, like so many have done in just week 1 already.

[Dextar]

I'm rolling Mastery>Haste>Crit like I have been for the whole expansion. Why? I've tested full haste and one of our other rogues tested full crit and both of them did far less damage than the same I'm rolling now.

[kilj]

Im still rolling with my Haste > Mastery Build and stomping meters and logs in SoO so far. Have been #1 in every fight in my 25 man raid.

[Deleted]

Im still rolling with my Haste > Mastery Build and stomping meters and logs in SoO so far. Have been #1 in every fight in my 25 man raid.

Similar here in 10 man. I find it hard to believe the nerf to the trinkets is bigger than the addition of the cloak proc.

[fierydemise]

Some thoughts on haste vs. mastery in time off target situations.

First a couple assumptions:
1) The value of haste off target is equal to the value of haste energy regen.
2) The value of mastery off target is proportional to the amount of mastery affected damage done by DP ticks and VW procs. There are four contributors to mastery value, DP procs, DP ticks, Envenom and VW, DP ticks and VW continue while you are off target, DP procs require auto attacks.

To figure out the value of haste I modified ShadowCraft so that haste did not grant energy regen, this drops the value of haste to around 55% of its full value so we can say that energy regen is worth approximately 45% of haste's total value. For mastery (VW damage+DP tick damage)/(Sum of all mastery damage sources), this I found be approximately 34%. The further complication here is that these values go to zero at different times, the value of haste goes to zero when you cap energy and the value of mastery goes to 0 after 12 seconds assuming DP is applied immediately before time off target and rupture has >12 seconds remaining.

There are a number of assumptions that can impact these results and if you want to play around with them yourself try this spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...3SXhaOUE#gid=0
The 4 numbers in the top left corner are all you need to change with EP values from ShadowCraft, character sheet energy regen and how much energy you have when forced off target.

The big takeaway for most scenarios where you leave the target with low energy haste is stronger than mastery unless you the time off target is greater than 6-8 seconds depending on haste and mastery EP values. This tends to be an uncommon case so I don't believe time off target should impact stat ranking too greatly.

Figuring out the EP values of multitarget situations is a bit harder at least for a reasonably robust set of cases, still working on it.