New Alliance Leader

[Wyrt]

I think the whole point of this expansion was precisely reinforcing King Varian Wrynn's leadership over the Alliance as a whole (See people like Jaina, or the Dwarven Council; which were sort of rogue) as opposed to the Horde very much going to hell. The new Horde, and the new Warchief, won't be any close to as united as the Alliance is now.

The horde is very unified after SoO, more so than the alliance is.

[Frontenac]

The horde is very unified after SoO, more so than the alliance is.

That remains to be seen. Thrall is ready to follow Vol'jin, but what about the rest of the Orcs? Will the Blood Elves get over their racial prejudice and accept to follow a Troll? Also, I see no reason why Sylvanas should change just because Garrosh has been deposed. Her plans are probably the same, and with the Kor'kron gone, Vol'jin will have a hard time keeping her in check. And there's also the question of orcish leadership and the cleaning up that remains to be done in Orgrimmar to exorcise what is left of Garrosh's rule.

Meanwhile, Varian has led victoriously the war and every single one of the leaders of the Alliance is fiercely behind him. So I fail to see how the Horde could be more unified than the Alliance.

[Hitei]

The horde is very unified after SoO, more so than the alliance is.

Unified? What a joke.

Sylvanas and the Forsaken have absolutely no interest in the other races.
Lor'themar was about to leave the Horde and just rejoin the Alliance.
The Goblins are few in number, and only have "pride" for the Horde because of the profit involved or because they're forced to.
The orcs are a shattered race, and most of them just gone done joining a faction which planned to wipe out or subjugate the other races.

Really the only unified races on the Horde are the Tauren and Trolls.

[Nyteyes]

Pretty sure that in the novels (maybe in some of the game too) that Varian was pretty much appointed as the "High King" of the Alliance. Anyone that has read the novels back me up or clarify this?

[Wyrt]

Unified? What a joke.

Sylvanas and the Forsaken have absolutely no interest in the other races.
Lor'themar was about to leave the Horde and just rejoin the Alliance.
The Goblins are few in number, and only have "pride" for the Horde because of the profit involved or because they're forced to.
The orcs are a shattered race, and most of them just gone done joining a faction which planned to wipe out or subjugate the other races.

Really the only unified races on the Horde are the Tauren and Trolls.

They unified together to bring down Garrosh and together they accepted Vol'jin as warchief.

Meanwhile, Varian has led victoriously the war and every single one of the leaders of the Alliance is fiercely behind him.

They are? Because I didn't see every single alliance leader at the siege, but I did see every single horde leader at the siege backing Vol'jin.

[Frontenac]

The ones who are still alive are the ones who sided with the revolution. The others are dead, dying, or irrelevant.

I doubt all the orcs fought in the revolution. There is bound to be some who were not in Orgrimmar or who were "civilians". And even so, those who fought for the revolution may have some mixed feelings about following a Troll. The Warchief always was an Orc before. For some, it must be humiliating that the Orcs wont lead the Horde anymore. Moral may be low.

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They are? Because I didn't see every single alliance leader at the siege, but I did see every single horde leader at the siege backing Vol'jin.

That means nothing. Most leaders were there : Tyrande, Moira Taurissan, Mekkatorque, Jaina. Genn Greymane is usually in Stormwind, by Varian's side. This shows his loyalty to Varian. Velen was not there in SoO, but several Draenei (and Worgen) were at Lion's Landing.

[Wyrt]

That means nothing. Most leaders were there : Tyrande, Moira Taurissan, Mekkatorque, Jaina. Genn Greymane is usually in Stormwind, by Varian's side. This shows his loyalty to Varian. Velen was not there in SoO, but several Draenei (and Worgen) were at Lion's Landing.

The fact that neither Velen nor Genn sent troops to Orgrimmar makes the alliance look less unified than the horde which had every race send troops.

Those draenei at Lion's Landing weren't under Varian's command either. Velen has never given support to Varian's High King crap.

[Wildmoon]

AA doesn't have leader. Varian is supreme commander of AA"s military not AA's king. Just like Lothar.

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The fact that neither Velen nor Genn sent troops to Orgrimmar makes the alliance look less unified than the horde which had every race send troops.

Those draenei at Lion's Landing weren't under Varian's command either. Velen has never given support to Varian's High King crap.

hmm you know that Varian didn't unleash the full might of AA at Origimmar right? He sent the least forces he could in order to win. That's the plan he came up with when he found out that the horde was falling apart in itself. He basically used the rebel as fodders for his forces. That's what a good leader do. Minimize the damage on your side as mung as possible.

All leaders of AA supported Varian throught out MoP. They agreed to do so in Wolfheart after Varian lead the charge and kicked Garrosh's ass at the battle at Ashenvale. Those draaneis were under Varian's command and Varian called Velen to heal his son.

[Callous1970]

Hogger will be both the one that kills Varian, and takes over leadership of the Alliance.

[Wyrt]

hmm you know that Varian didn't unleash the full might of AA at Origimmar right? He sent the least forces he could in order to win. That's the plan he came up with when he found out that the horde was falling apart in itself. He basically used the rebel as fodders for his forces. That's what a good leader do. Minimize the damage on your side as mung as possible.

All leaders of AA supported Varian throught out MoP. They agreed to do so in Wolfheart after Varian lead the charge and kicked Garrosh's ass at the battle at Ashenvale. Those draaneis were under Varian's command and Varian called Velen to heal his son.

Velen was not present at the end of Wolfheart so he could not have given Varian support then.

The draenei in Krasarang were not under Varian's command. The gnomes, dwarves, and humans were according to Twinbraid's journal. The night elves gave Varian command after ALP.

Velen did not heal Anduin either.

[Krunsh]

Magni bronzebeard hands down. Can't trust anyone better than a dwarf.

[Wildmoon]

Velen was not present at the end of Wolfheart so he could not have given Varian support then.

The draenei in Krasarang were not under Varian's command. The gnomes, dwarves, and humans were according to Twinbraid's journal. The night elves gave Varian command after ALP.

Velen did not heal Anduin either.

It wasn't shown in game but Velen healed Anduin. Velen wasn't invited to Darnassus(he was the only one who wasn't invited) in Wolfheart but he went there himself. Tyrande didn't invite him because she thought he declared himself neutral after the sunwell incident. Velen DISMISSED that claim and said he was willing to support the AA.

[Wyrt]

It wasn't shown in game but Velen healed Anduin. Velen wasn't invited to Darnassus(he was the only one who wasn't invited) in Wolfheart but he went there himself. Tyrande didn't invite him because she thought he declared himself neutral after the sunwell incident. Velen DISMISSED that claim and said he was willing to support the AA.

Velen did not heal Anduin. Anduin was healed by pandaren mistweavers.

Supporting the alliance and supporting Varian as high king aren't the same thing.

[Wildmoon]

Velen did not heal Anduin. Anduin was healed by pandaren mistweavers.

Supporting the alliance and supporting Varian as high king aren't the same thing.

He was never against Varian leading the charge. There's no reason for Draenei to not support Varian in this war when the AA did even Malfurion. Velen was summoned at the end of Landfall.

[Wyrt]

He was never against Varian leading the charge. There's no reason for Draenei to not support Varian in this war when the AA did even Malfurion. Velen was summoned at the end of Landfall.

Velen was summoned, he did not come.

[Scummer]

The Alliance should not have a leader.
While I actually liked the idea of High King they've teetered on a knifes edge about it's role as purely military which is a problem.

The Alliance is an alliance of nations (shockingly) and for this reason has been and should always be governed as a collective through council of the leader where everybody is equal and has a voice.

[MoanaLisa]

I'd prefer a council led by Garion with Velen as a principal adviser. If something happens to Varian in a Burning Legion expansion this has clearly already had some foreshadowing. Whether or not that's to mislead or is truly foreshadowing remains to be seen. After the Legion has been dispensed with, then he slips back into his rather more neutral but supportive role as now.

[Scummer]

The horde is very unified after SoO, more so than the alliance is.

So long as the Forsaken exist within the Horde they will never be as unified. They are certainly not more unified atm by any stretch, many of the Orcs will still feel partial to what Garrosh taught the Orcs and most likely many will object to a Troll being Warchief. I seem to recall Lor'themar directly hints at it being a stretch to get Sylvanas's loyalty after Garrosh's defeat.

[Deleted]

I'm just wondering, will Tirion change his opinion on neutrality once Sylvanas pushes into Hearthglen?

[Wyrt]

The Alliance should not have a leader.
While I actually liked the idea of High King they've teetered on a knifes edge about it's role as purely military which is a problem.

The Alliance is an alliance of nations (shockingly) and for this reason has been and should always be governed as a collective through council of the leader where everybody is equal and has a voice.

The alliance shouldn't be governing anyone. Governing should be down by the individual nations. A council to decide purely military things would be ideal.

So long as the Forsaken exist within the Horde they will never be as unified. They are certainly not more unified atm by any stretch, many of the Orcs will still feel partial to what Garrosh taught the Orcs and most likely many will object to a Troll being Warchief. I seem to recall Lor'themar directly hints at it being a stretch to get Sylvanas's loyalty after Garrosh's defeat.

And yet Sylvanas personally went to Orgrimmar to assist the rebellion when she didn't have to. She accepted Vol'jin as her warchief as well.