I am requiring my guild to do their spec's "Gold" Proving Grounds - thoughts?

[Nobleshield]

Quite possibly the case. The only thing that were up at the time was melee mobs. There was no fire caster, wind caster or anything that would've taken a lot of damage. Just the stacking bleed dot they do. Though as I mentioned before I only gave gold one attempt to see what it was like and could just be a case of really bad RNG. I'll have to toy around with it later this week. Would do it tonight, but I have a paper to write and I want to beat the Celestial Tournament before it resets.

Is this on Gold or Endless? On Gold the tough part is the last wave, the two Conquerors that enrage; save cooldowns for that because they will trainwreck you like nothing else, especially if you still have one of the flyers up from the previous wave; even with SotR running you can pretty much be globaled, and you can't kite those guys because they have a speed buff when enraged. For the rest meh I never really had an issue with the stacking dot from the virmen, it was just straight melee from either the flyers or the conquerors, but I've only gotten to Endless 10 so far.

[Kharli]

Update: There seems to be some confusion so I'll back up the story some. My guild is a casual, 1 night a raid guild whose first raid was Wednesday night. I have never raided with the vast majority of the ~20 people who showed up in a wide variety of ilvl and raid experiences.

your a fucking moron.
1.you say your guild is a casual, 1 night raid guild? and you expect people to do Proving Ground GOLD!?
2.My Guild is a family casual(ish) guild we raid 3 nights a week, none of the Officers/GM expects anyone to do Proving Grounds Gold for any of there roles.
3. Get a guild meeting up and ask what people feel about doing The Proving grounds. and as many other people have said before..

alot of people DO NOT HAVE thE TIME to do Proving Grounds and it's worthless unless your testing a spec out.

I ASK my Guild how to at certain times, becasue I know I can get good info from them.

Infracted - Please do not insult other users. -Nobleshield

[Lucetia]

Is this on Gold or Endless? On Gold the tough part is the last wave, the two Conquerors that enrage; save cooldowns for that because they will trainwreck you like nothing else, especially if you still have one of the flyers up from the previous wave; even with SotR running you can pretty much be globaled, and you can't kite those guys because they have a speed buff when enraged. For the rest meh I never really had an issue with the stacking dot from the virmen, it was just straight melee from either the flyers or the conquerors, but I've only gotten to Endless 10 so far.

Yea I know it was the last. I just didn't really see what was up and how they wrecked me. I just basically doing it to see how difficult it would be.e As for the two Conquerors didn't know that and will have to try that next time. To be even more honest I really didn't kite anything for the most part. Just sat there tanking/aoe'ing all the mobs, silenced the fire caster after he got some fire off and when I tried to run to him to start killing it some of the mobs would run through fire.

Whenever I do it next I could probably kite the mobs through the fire a bit more and stuff and try a few things. I was just being lazy/not reading it before hand and such. Plus I'm not sure how much of a difference it makes in Proving Grounds but I was basically in my Ret gear with 522 Weapon from ToT and 476 shield. If I reforged my gear a bit more and gemmed/enchanted my weapon things would probably be better.

[Freia]

^ this.

The only thing PG might be good for is learning a new spec- after you've at least gotten the rotation part down on the dummy.

The healer one is unrealistic. It's doable, but you better HOPE you know how to manage your mana well enough since there's no drink break between waves. In a heroic/raid setting, you're able to drink when you aren't in combat (there's a good 14 second lapse between some waves).

Personally, I don't see PG as needing to be required- especially for a group that only raids one day a week.

Getting gold as a healer is a joke. I didn't even change my gear and had low spirit and had no issues. Proving grounds do not get challenging for healers until Endless.

[Lucetia]

Getting gold as a healer is a joke. I didn't even change my gear and had low spirit and had no issues. Proving grounds do not get challenging for healers until Endless.

I've heard a lot about the healer one being a joke. I didn't try it as I only had Prot / Ret at the time. Is it there just enough damage going out? Or mechanics not occuring to make you have to think on your feet of which spell to use and such?

[Tankitbetter]

I've heard a lot about the healer one being a joke. I didn't try it as I only had Prot / Ret at the time. Is it there just enough damage going out? Or mechanics not occuring to make you have to think on your feet of which spell to use and such?

It took me 2 tries on healer due to vuhdo not showing the dispel. Other than that, I Felt it was pretty simple. More healing waves, fewer healing rains and GHWs.

[Inthislzon]

I've heard a lot about the healer one being a joke. I didn't try it as I only had Prot / Ret at the time. Is it there just enough damage going out? Or mechanics not occuring to make you have to think on your feet of which spell to use and such?

It's mostly RNG based, either NPCs stand on the fire (impossible) or they don't (trivial) Either they focus fire appropiately (no damage intake) or they don't (way too much damage).

Once you get some decent RNG you can faceroll your way to gold, if you get bad RNG almost no amount of skill can possibly save you.

[Nobleshield]

It's mostly RNG based, either NPCs stand on the fire (impossible) or they don't (trivial) Either they focus fire appropiately (no damage intake) or they don't (way too much damage).

Once you get some decent RNG you can faceroll your way to gold, if you get bad RNG almost no amount of skill can possibly save you.

So what you are saying is... it accurately sims the typical LFG group? Either you get a good group and have no issues.. or you don't and have issues. Sounds like it's the best of the three then.

I kid, I kid.

[Tankitbetter]

your a fucking moron.

You're*

1.you say your guild is a casual, 1 night raid guild? and you expect people to do Proving Ground GOLD!?

Yes? I didn't say they were bad. I said they were casual.

2.My Guild is a family casual(ish) guild we raid 3 nights a week, none of the Officers/GM expects anyone to do Proving Grounds Gold for any of there roles.

Good for your guild! What's your point?

3. Get a guild meeting up and ask what people feel about doing The Proving grounds. and as many other people have said before..

Their opinions on the validity of it don't really matter. It may seem rude but it's true.

alot of people DO NOT HAVE thE TIME to do Proving Grounds and it's worthless unless your testing a spec out.

They have had the time. And it's good that you have evidence to support such a wild claim.

I ASK my Guild how to at certain times, becasue I know I can get good info from them.

And I asked my officers and they agreed it'd be a good idea.

[Bmfstunner]

Should've made the requirement Endless wave 30, now that was something of a challenge.

[Tankitbetter]

Should've made the requirement Endless wave 30, now that was something of a challenge.

I know you may just be joking, but that would pretty much defeat the whole point.

[Invictus9001]

I am requiring my guild to do their spec's "Gold" Proving Grounds - thoughts?

IMO, you're using an achievement to do what people used to crutch on GearScore to tell them. Not the best of ideas, nor the most.. promoting of a positive atmosphere. I also think you'd be better served in just gathering the people who are raiding/dungeon-crawling, requiring the use of DBM and getting into a guild vent channel for communication/just doing the raid(s)/dungeon(s). Learning what people are capable of doing, and not doing, is best served by observing it all while doing it LIVE. If you clear in one go, clap-clap and call it a night. If you wipe, analyze what went wrong and constructively tell whoever fouled up what to do in order to get things right, and try again. Don't crutch on shift-click links. You'll short-change your guild's potential.

[Tziva]

I've heard a lot about the healer one being a joke. I didn't try it as I only had Prot / Ret at the time. Is it there just enough damage going out? Or mechanics not occuring to make you have to think on your feet of which spell to use and such?

It's not really a joke, but it's like 90% about mana management, and less about knowing your toolbox or having quick reaction times. The downside of the scaling, unfortunately, is that regen is terrible so you're going to spend most of gold worrying more about conserving mana than flexing your skills.

Of course, mana conservation is a skill, too, it's just a mostly irrelevant one outside of early-first-tier raiding. And it's probably not the highest priority skill to be testing your healers on.

[Bmfstunner]

I know you may just be joking, but that would pretty much defeat the whole point.

My point is that gold is a cake walk, it doesn't even take that much time. So what I don't get is why people are up in arms about this, your requirement seemed very casual and by your words, it's a casual guild.

[Tankitbetter]

IMO, you're using an achievement to do what people used to crutch on GearScore to tell them. Not the best of ideas, nor the most.. promoting of a positive atmosphere. I also think you'd be better served in just gathering the people who are raiding/dungeon-crawling, requiring the use of DBM and getting into a guild vent channel for communication/just doing the raid(s)/dungeon(s). Learning what people are capable of doing, and not doing, is best served by observing it all while doing it LIVE. If you clear in one go, clap-clap and call it a night. If you wipe, analyze what went wrong and constructively tell whoever fouled up what to do in order to get things right, and try again. Don't crutch on shift-click links. You'll short-change your guild's potential.

These are things that I will do while raiding - analyzing performance and providing feedback to specific players. However, with 4 hours a week available to us, any metric that I can use (requiring 510 ilvl, gold achievement) to help reach a basic level to work from is a great tool for me.

[Xarkan]

I'm not asking for 30 wave. I'm asking for Gold. That being said, earlier in this thread I said I'd meet that problem when it comes. So far, I haven't run in to any player who has said "I cannot do it."

Why would you hear if people cannot do it? If you set a requirement and a person finds himself unable to fulfill it the logical choice, when put as in the op, is to conclude there is no future in your flex raids and quit the guild. Why would anyone, if you say it is that way or the high way, think it worthwhile to even try to explain why they find it impossible?

What words do you offer to give any hope beyond no hope at all?

Do not take the wrong conclusion away from that, there is nothing truly wrong with asking it. I am just wondering why people should expect they could barter for a chance of leniency. Edit 2: Well in a guild with 505 geared people it is not the best target to solve issues in flex but *shrugs*

[Inthislzon]

So what you are saying is... it accurately sims the typical LFG group? Either you get a good group and have no issues.. or you don't and have issues. Sounds like it's the best of the three then.

I kid, I kid.

Haha, indeed.

On my shaman i was like "omg this is hard". Then on the third try i got decent RNG and was like "wtf where is damage?"

[Tankitbetter]

Why would you hear if people cannot do it? If you set a requirement and a person finds himself unable to fulfill it the logical choice, when put as in the op, is to conclude there is no future in your flex raids and quit the guild. Why would anyone, if you say it is that way or the high way, think it worthwhile to even try to explain why they find it impossible?

You're misquoting me. The quote was responding to the problem of a "Class issue" - not a player issue. I don't have mistweaver monks. My fire mage and affliction warlock and disc priest all did it.

And they'd talk to me instead of gquitting because I've been coaching them through, offering advice on specific phases.

[Celista]

These are things that I will do while raiding - analyzing performance and providing feedback to specific players. However, with 4 hours a week available to us, any metric that I can use (requiring 510 ilvl, gold achievement) to help reach a basic level to work from is a great tool for me.

I find that logs are sufficient, though. Why not just ask for those? I guess it's easier to link an achievement than actually look through a set of data to determine a player's potential...>.< although I'm surprised at the backlash in this thread, some people seem personally offended at the thought of proving grounds performance being considered as a metric for a raid spot.

[Peacemoon]

Proving grounds test more than just straight DPSing, Healing, and Tanking. It tests all the other skills as well such as movement, coordination and prioritising. People who fail at it remind me of players who could never handle CC and/or be relied upon to interrupt. I did Gold Healer on my first try, and it was my offspec and not properly configured.