Is this proof that the Orcs need... (spoilers)

[Trassk]

Bit of an understatement at this point.

and varian's policy of 'kill all greenskins' was such a wonderful political move wasn't it.

[checking facts]

and varian's policy of 'kill all greenskins' was such a wonderful political move wasn't it.

the difference is: varian and lorthemar always told us that they are fighters, not politicians. varian even went one step up and said he was a "monster" lol

but except for thrall, it appears there are no good politicians in the orcish race as a whole. or diplomats. or writers lol

[Maxilian]

Blizzard.. has done a shit job of giving any structure to the orcs outside of being brutal and war like. For a length of time, it seemed like it was going that way, and the orcs were returning to there ways of the past before the legion corrupted them..

And then, blizzard had the idea to make orcs into monster again, as scapegoats and foils for the other races to appear 'better'.

And now, the orcs have had all there development since WC3 shit on by the devs, and facing a bleak future.

Yeah, really inspires me to carry on investing time in the lore..

Trassk, but look at it in a better way, these's a way to show the horde more as a family, and not the horde = Orcs + allies

We have seen the bad side of all the menber of the horde...

We saw the dark side of the Forsaken (The Wrath Gate), the Blood Elves (Magic Addiction), Taurens (Maghata and her clan), Goblin (Their Greed and what that made their boss do), Trolls (We saw as their people became cannivals and went back to the dark magics) and now the Orcs (Garrosh)

Note: All of these things that happened after they became part of the horde not before (most of them have already many reasons to not be trusted or to be hated)

IMO these's a great way to take off the idea of Orc vs Humans, and put Horde vs Alliance, to show the alliance as a great kingdom and show the Horde as a great family

[Arganis]

Just wait for the second coming of jes...Garrosh.. he will come back as a new orc and lead the horde/ orcs to a brighter future :P

Actually I have this lingering suspicion this might actually happen.

[Trassk]

the difference is: varian and lorthemar always told us that they are fighters, not politicians. varian even went one step up and said he was a "monster" lol

but except for thrall, it appears there are no good politicians in the orcish race as a whole. or diplomats. or writers lol

Saurfang. the orc who brought the forces of kalimdor together
Eitrigg. friend to tirion fordring and once argent crusade member
Gorgonna. Leader of the horde forces in grizzly hills who asked you to help a human woman out.

just because they made assholes like garrosh and malkorok, doesn't mean orcs don't understand good politics, or trying for peace for the greater good.

This whole fucking expansion has shat over any development the orcs have had since wc3..

[Maxilian]

and varian's policy of 'kill all greenskins' was such a wonderful political move wasn't it.

Is true, but remenber that everyone can change..., we have a lot of examples:

Jaina, she once were the one who over and over again tried to make peace between the horde and the alliance, and now she wants to dismantle the horde, and she does have good reasons why....

Grom Hellscream, he was the one who made the orcs become the demon's slaves, but he also was the one who freed them

Why can't Varian do the same? he have showed that now he like the idea of peace, but if he have to fight to protect his people, he will

[Deleted]

Orcs gonna orc. Garrosh shoulda stayed Warchief

[Maxilian]

Saurfang. the orc who brought the forces of kalimdor together
Eitrigg. friend to tirion fordring and once argent crusade member
Gorgonna. Leader of the horde forces in grizzly hills who asked you to help a human woman out.

just because they made assholes like garrosh and malkorok, doesn't mean orcs don't understand good politics, or trying for peace for the greater good.

This whole fucking expansion has shat over any development the orcs have had since wc3..

Trassk, i know you love the Orcs, but that doesn't mean that the orcs can't stand tall once again, look at the forsaken, they are proud of what they do (yeah i know they are still in a grey area, between being the bad guys or the good guys), or the Blood Elves..., these will bring even more orcs follow Thrall ways...

Note: IMO Thrall will become the orcs chieftan

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Orcs gonna orc. Garrosh shoulda stayed Warchief

Naaaa.... i hate when they put the Orcs as the bad guys and the humans as the good guys, i would have liked these expansion a little more if they have puted the alliance in a grey area a little more

[Deleted]

Trassk, but look at it in a better way, these's a way to show the horde more as a family, and not the horde = Orcs + allies

We have seen the bad side of all the menber of the horde...

We saw the dark side of the Forsaken (The Wrath Gate), the Blood Elves (Magic Addiction), Taurens (Maghata and her clan), Goblin (Their Greed and what that made their boss do), Trolls (We saw as their people became cannivals and went back to the dark magics) and now the Orcs (Garrosh)

Note: All of these things that happened after they became part of the horde not before (most of them have already many reasons to not be trusted or to be hated)

IMO these's a great way to take off the idea of Orc vs Humans, and put Horde vs Alliance, to show the alliance as a great kingdom and show the Horde as a great family

Its kinda shity when you have to demonize one of the sides in order to make the other one look good..

You shouldnt have to constantly make the orcs the bad guys in order for the other horde races to have more space in the horde or in order to make the aliance look bad ass..

What you create is a void for that specific race..

And just like the Op first worte.. Can the orcs be trusted to rule themselfs? The short answer from what the lore as told us so far is a big no.. Thrall seem more of a exception the more time passes.. He was only what he is because of him being raised by humans.. That is what the lore as been telling us.. And that the orcs will always be willing to turn into monsters for power..

[Trassk]

Trassk, i know you love the Orcs, but that doesn't mean that the orcs can't stand tall once again, look at the forsaken, they are proud of what they do (yeah i know they are still in a grey area, between being the bad guys or the good guys), or the Blood Elves..., these will bring even more orcs follow Thrall ways...

May I remind you. When Syvlanas fucked up and created the plague, leading to varimathras and his coop, and us needing to win back undercity, it was sylvanas who took back leadership, despite everyone knowing it was her who created the plague, look at gilneas one expansion later, so she knew exactly what she was doing.
Yet, she gets to carry on as leader of the forsaken.

The warchief is and always has been the orcs title leader. they created it, it has been there as long as the horde has. Yet now, someone who isn't an orc taking it, its the same as having a living person taking the mantle from sylvanas.

The warchief is and always will belong to the orcs, vol'jin will never stand for what the title was meant for.

[Deleted]

Naaaa.... i hate when they put the Orcs as the bad guys and the humans as the good guys, i would have liked these expansion a little more if they have puted the alliance in a grey area a little more

I'd like the Alliance to be a little more dodgy as well because all The Horde have to say about Alliance injustice is #remembertaurajo but the orcs are warlike. Their leader is the damn Warchief, they likes there war and I liked Garrosh before he went psycho is because he was the truest definition of a "Warchief" there ever was. But alas, a Troll rules us all. We'll see how long it takes before fucking nobody listens to his shit, Sylvanas especially.

[Trassk]

Its kinda shity when you have to demonize one of the sides in order to make the other one look good..

You shouldnt have to constantly make the orcs the bad guys in order for the other horde races to have more space in the horde or in order to make the aliance look bad ass..

What you create is a void for that specific race..

EXACTLY. The orcs have been run though the shitter though this whole expansion, just to make other races of the horde look good. And a troll warchief is the final nail in the coffin.

[Maxilian]

Its kinda shity when you have to demonize one of the sides in order to make the other one look good..

You shouldnt have to constantly make the orcs the bad guys in order for the other horde races to have more space in the horde or in order to make the aliance look bad ass..

What you create is a void for that specific race..

And just like the Op first worte.. Can the orcs be trusted to rule themselfs? The short answer from what the lore as told us so far is a big no.. Thrall seem more of a exception the more time passes.. He was only what he is because of him being raised by humans.. That is what the lore as been telling us.. And that the orcs will always be willing to turn into monsters for power..

I totally agree with you, i was hoping that with MoP, they could have puted the alliance in the grey zone too, to show that the alliance are not the good guys, and the horde are not the bad guys, that they are just 2 factions with conflicts...

I doesn't bother me that much that the Orcs have been showed the way they were showed, cause as i said before all horde races have been showed in one moment or another as the bad guys, but i hate that the Horde is the only one that have been represented as the bad guys, and that never happens with the alliance..., the only time it happened was when Onyxia was leading the Alliance... and... it doesn't count... why? Onyxia... that's your answer

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May I remind you. When Syvlanas fucked up and created the plague, leading to varimathras and his coop, and us needing to win back undercity, it was sylvanas who took back leadership, despite everyone knowing it was her who created the plague, look at gilneas one expansion later, so she knew exactly what she was doing.
Yet, she gets to carry on as leader of the forsaken.

The warchief is and always has been the orcs title leader. they created it, it has been there as long as the horde has. Yet now, someone who isn't an orc taking it, its the same as having a living person taking the mantle from sylvanas.

The warchief is and always will belong to the orcs, vol'jin will never stand for what the title was meant for.

Yeah, i understand....

I, personally, don't think that the creating of the plague is really bad, is just a weapon, i agree with the forsaken ways (most of the times, sometimes i don't) why? cause is an effective way to kill your enemy without having to lose many of your people, even more when your people are a really small number...

Also, is true that the warchief have been the orcs title leader for a while, but that doesn't mean that it can't change, most of the time the warchief was not the Orc leader... it was the Horde leader (it doesn't matter what horde -The Dark Horde, the True horde, or the horde-), so is debatible the idea of warchief being an only Orc title...

[CaptainArlong]

Honestly, their track record does seem to suggest that maybe Vol'Jin will work out, what with the whole 'not being an orc' bit. I hope he does.

Until Blizzard runs out of ideas again and turns Vol'jin "evil" and makes him a raid boss. Blizzard's ideas are always "make the ugly guy the villain".

[Maxilian]

I'd like the Alliance to be a little more dodgy as well because all The Horde have to say about Alliance injustice is #remembertaurajo but the orcs are warlike. Their leader is the damn Warchief, they likes there war and I liked Garrosh before he went psycho is because he was the truest definition of a "Warchief" there ever was. But alas, a Troll rules us all. We'll see how long it takes before fucking nobody listens to his shit, Sylvanas especially.

Yes, please, i as a mainly horde player, i hate to go to an alliance vs horde threads, cause most of the times, the alliance are right, they have more reasons to fight the horde than the other way around

[Yingyang]

May I remind you. When Syvlanas fucked up and created the plague, leading to varimathras and his coop, and us needing to win back undercity, it was sylvanas who took back leadership, despite everyone knowing it was her who created the plague, look at gilneas one expansion later, so she knew exactly what she was doing.
Yet, she gets to carry on as leader of the forsaken.

The warchief is and always has been the orcs title leader. they created it, it has been there as long as the horde has. Yet now, someone who isn't an orc taking it, its the same as having a living person taking the mantle from sylvanas.

The warchief is and always will belong to the orcs, vol'jin will never stand for what the title was meant for.

The reason she is left in charge of the Forsaken is because she is the only one that the Forsaken will listen too. She is their leader and creator, so they will follow her in what she does. If she dies then what is left for the remaining Forsaken? They were ressed to server her and fight for her, they would have very little reason to continue staying with the horde, as most would probably be fine with just dying once again. Sylvanas stays with the Horde because they are a strong force in the world that cant control her and lets her do as she pleases most of the time. The Horde keeps her because the Forsaken are a strong army full of undead that will just fight.

[Maxilian]

Until Blizzard runs out of ideas again and turns Vol'jin "evil" and makes him a raid boss. Blizzard's ideas are always "make the ugly guy the villain".

Not always, they made Kaelthas the bad guy ..., is more like "Is red... IS BAD! KILL IT!"

[Zulkhan]

and now orcs have been confined to the dog house, and darkspear trolls, who have only a fraction of the long history orcs have in warcrafts story, become the ruling class. f**king marvelous..

When you will learn that having a troll as Warchief of the Horde doesn't mean "Darkspear rule now mon!!1!1!!"?

The Orcs remain the most popolous race of the Horde, while the Darkspear are probably the least popolous.

There will be (finally) more presence of other Horde races after years of Garrosh minding for orcs alone all the time? Yes.

They will be put aside as "underdogs" with the Darkspear RULING DA HORDE? Nope, that's garbage.

[Maxilian]

The reason she is left in charge of the Forsaken is because she is the only one that the Forsaken will listen too. She is their leader and creator, so they will follow her in what she does. If she dies then what is left for the remaining Forsaken? They were ressed to server her and fight for her, they would have very little reason to continue staying with the horde, as most would probably be fine with just dying once again. Sylvanas stays with the Horde because they are a strong force in the world that cant control her and lets her do as she pleases most of the time. The Horde keeps her because the Forsaken are a strong army full of undead that will just fight.

Is true that the forsaken are loyal to Sylvanas, but we know that can change, look at Putress, also we still don't know what Sylvanas agenda is, is true that in the past she joined the horde cause she needed allies, but now... what's her reason to be in the horde? *To be Continue* :P

[Yingyang]

Yes, please, i as a mainly horde player, i hate to go to an alliance vs horde threads, cause most of the times, the alliance are right, they have more reasons to fight the horde than the other way around

To be fair the Alliance have plenty of their own bad factions, just that almost all of them broke away from the Alliance when turning bad.