FLex worse than LFR? That awkward moment when....

[Raelbo]

Personally I am a little disappointed in the community.

I tried out flex for the first time last night, and had a lot of wiping on the first boss before the group eventually disbanded. There were 2 main problems:

Firstly a lot of people were dying to void zones. I am not going to be derogatory about people failing at simple mechanics, I guess we all had to learn somewhere - but there was a lot of chatter in the raid chat about finding more healers. It is difficult to get better at the game if you don't realise where the problem is and even more difficult if you don't want to know (I piped in and told the guys the problem wasn't a lack of healing, it was people standing in void zones, but they really weren't interested).

Secondly the dps was a big issue. I have ilevel 530. I recognise that my gear is more than is needed for Flex, and I am fine with the fact that not everyone in the group will be able to match my damage output. But honestly, to be doing more than double the dps of the next highest dps in the group, for someone who never got even a single piece of gear from ToT normal (or heroic) that is pretty shocking. Inspecting the people's gear revealed the obvious reason: These guys were decked out in sub-par gear. Most gear slots were filled with sub-500 items, with only the occasional sprinkling of 502/522/535 stuff. I don't think any of the other dps had more than about 500 ilevel average.

Which to me is just a little crazy. I can accept a lot of things, but seriously, it's like a bunch of unprepared, undergeared people all jumped at the opportunity to get a free ride in a raid. And the unsurprising result is that everyone lost.

I guess this isn't new to WoW. I am well used to people trying their luck at Hc Scenarios and any pug raids with totally inadequate preparation, and expectations that things will be fine. This is something I personally never do. If someone is LFM I am not going to sign up unless I believe I can carry my weight for that content. The first HC scenario I did with my DK, I destroyed all the dps in the group, because I didn't feel I was up to scratch before then.

The only difference in LFR is that LFR was designed to cater for people who aren't going to put in any effort into gearing up for raiding. So they set the barrier to entry pretty low, and then tune the content accordingly.

Flex is not LFR. It is actually meant to be real raiding. People can't just rock up half naked, with no raid experience at all and expect to waltz through it. My message to people out there wanting to do Flex pugs: Get gear. It's out there and is easy enough to obtain with a little bit of dedication. The lack of raid experience I don't mind. Flex is a great tool to learn with.


I learned a lot from last night's raid. My guild will be running Flex raids and we're going to need to pug to fill the numbers. I am going to be a bit harsh on who I let in, because it seems to me that there will always be people who try their luck instead of being a bit mature and making sure they are ready before signing up for group content.


TL;DR: I am disappointed that people aren't a bit more mature about signing up for content that they clearly aren't prepared for at all. Flex pugging really highlighted this.

[Vintersol]

TL;DR: I am disappointed that people aren't a bit more mature about signing up for content that they clearly aren't prepared for at all. Flex pugging really highlighted this.

That's not surprising me.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

If you don't wanna end up playing with bads don't queue for shit (LFR) and don't join Flex with randoms...
But yeah, most people that use the queue system as their only way into raiding are horrid players...

[Deleted]

We thought we could use flex for recruit.
Worst. Idea. Evar.

We basically had our main raid (8 of them) carrying 10-12 undergeared clueless baddies making the encounters hard as the normal ones, hitting enrage timers and going oom on every fight because 2 out of 4 healers' output was ridicolous.

[Mouri Kogorou]

flex is not meant for pugs.

[Reyzzz]

Well depending on whether it's a pug or F&F group, you need to either filter the retards or use some means of communication. If you just invite people and throw yourself on the bosses, yeah it's gonna be worse.

[Kazlofski]

I actually found out that gold proving ground requirement is much better than it seems to represent, people know what they are doing!

[brirrspliff]

Honestly, if LFR never existed I daresay players would be a bit more skilled, they've just gotten lazy over time.

i don't think this is true. i think those players were bad and lazy from the beginning...

[Deleted]

Really don't understand how people are STILL moaning about this brand new mode when you can choose who you want in your raid...

Unbearable the lot of you.

[brirrspliff]

TL;DR: I am disappointed that people aren't a bit more mature about signing up for content that they clearly aren't prepared for at all. Flex pugging really highlighted this.

pro-tip:
do not, never, ever, raid with randoms. don't do it.

[yjmark]

We thought we could use flex for recruit.
Worst. Idea. Evar.

We basically had our main raid (8 of them) carrying 10-12 undergeared clueless baddies making the encounters hard as the normal ones, hitting enrage timers and going oom on every fight because 2 out of 4 healers' output was ridicolous.

Of course you're gonna fail if you recruit like that. Flex works perfectly when you recruit properly (I.e. only a few at a time).
When the number of recruits seriously outnumbers the number of guildies, then you are backwards.

[Larinnian]

If you don't wanna end up playing with bads don't queue for shit (LFR) and don't join Flex with randoms...
But yeah, most people that use the queue system as their only way into raiding are horrid players...

This basically sums it up, except for the fact that not everyone who has no other option but LFR for raiding is a horrid player. There's still alot of them out there that are genuinely nice, intelligent people, but they get drowned out by the rest of the idiots that the internet has to offer.

[Musta Kyy]

You are only going to have worse time in flex than in LFR if you join or make groups that do not have any requirements, just "/w for inv" will give you a wipefest.
No, Im not saying 540+ ilvl or gtfo, but a group that checks a bit what kind of players it has, a question about tactics and armory check will tell a lot.
I dont even understand why you would compare LFR and Flex, LFR is not organized raiding just faceroll no need to care about anything and in flex you actually have to know the tactics, play moderately well with your class and you have to work as a team.

[Whiskra]

TL;DR: I am disappointed that people aren't a bit more mature about signing up for content that they clearly aren't prepared for at all. Flex pugging really highlighted this.

Congratulations, you stumbled upon the famous scenario most PUG leaders were desperate to avoid with their PUG's before LFR was introduced, and that most people would make huge complaining threads about on this very forum, about how much they hated PUG leaders who wouldn't take in them for whatever reason.

But this is what happens when you don't put on restrictions and requirements on people.

[Deleted]

Of course you're gonna fail if you recruit like that. Flex works perfectly when you recruit properly (I.e. only a few at a time).
When the number of recruits seriously outnumbers the number of guildies, then you are backwards.

Yeah, now we know... We had a couple of people leaving after our first wipe on the Sha and we downed it easily after that: dropping an underporforming healer and 2 undergeared dps made everything WAY easier in terms of healing and dps requirements.
Flex can be very punishing if done wrong, like we did.

[Snorkles]

I did Flex last night with a bunch of guys from the guild I'm in (they raid normals, I don't - haven't done since TBC/First tier of WotLK) and it was really fun. I was pretty out of practice though so the first 2 bosses I sucked (we 9 manned both and I was basically carried) but by the third and fourth I'd found my feet and was actually pumping out some okish DPS. Was nothing compared to the ilvl 540+ guys with meta and cloak, but still, given me that 'taste' of raiding that I've not had in a long time.

I'm too polite to inflict my rubbishness on normal guild progression and/or a PuG, but with flex it gave me that stepping stone to get back into raiding and, for the first time in a while, I'm actually quite excited!

[Pwnzoar]

I dunno, me and a guildy joined a Flex raid from OpenRaid. The group was pretty skilled, amazingly polite, and willing to work through all wipes. After not raiding for awhile, (my guild was in a stage of hibernation), it was the most fun I've had in months on WoW.

[Gilian]

You find out that LFR is actually x10 better than queing Flex with players from your own server.

That awkward moment when...

...you finally understand why all those "elitists" ask for requirements for a pug/guild and you feel emberassed for complaining about it.

Did some people actually think that they could just invite 9 random people without asking them anything and do some flex raiding without problems? Probably a lot of people think they can just start a flex raid and kill everything without even trying or wiping? Because that is how the rest of this game works.

[TheWerebison]

If Flex is worse than LFR, you're doing it wrong. Yeah, there's gonna be people who do it just for more chances at loot, and people who do it because they think grouping with random people that they choose will be better than grouping with totally random people. But our guild does it as a guild. We have a 10-man raiding guild, and everybody else has to pretty much sit on the bench or find their own normal groups. It's nice for us to finally have a way for all of us to do something as a guild. We did the first section this week, and had a blast.

I dunno the reasons Blizzard said they wanted this difficulty in here, but I love it. It's an LFR for friends. People were more inclined to listen to someone they knew, we got to all have a good time, and there was of course no loot drama. Folks just need to relax and have fun. If you want to submit yourself to nothing but pug groups...well, just remember, they're still pug groups. Pug an LFR, flex, normal, whatever...you're gonna get what you usually get with pugs.

Use flex the way I think it was intended: make some friends, join up with your guild, whatever, and just go out having fun in an easier mode.

Also our guild uses it so that our normal group can experience the mechanics, which is another nice bonus, since the mechanics are the same.

[Deleted]

Flex PUGing will be exactly the same as ICC PUGing back in wrath.
Ridiculous requirements which the raid leaders probably never will meet themselves, because they simply want to be carried through.

Won't bother trying it, ever. Also, in LFR, at least you can leave when others get annoying.