Welfare Legendary

[Fagatronics]

There TWO past legendaries that made certain boss fights more difficult. Please name the two legendaries and their fights which were effected. If you can't then I really don't think you know what you're talking about.

Oooohhh, can I guess? The ones I'm thinking of both came from Frostmourne. The one I know for sure was the Sindragosa quest where the player had to stand in front of her face and eat frost breaths most the fight. The second may have only been for our guild but the player needing to be the Abomination for the PP fight.

Bunch of wipes from, "Sorry, I've never done this before." Yeah, that's because our off tank always does it. Thanks Bliz for reintroducing Teron Gorefiend mechanics, we sorely missed them...

[Monteverdi]

Oooohhh, can I guess? The ones I'm thinking of both came from Frostmourne. The one I know for sure was the Sindragosa quest where the player had to stand in front of her face and eat frost breaths most the fight. The second may have only been for our guild but the player needing to be the Abomination for the PP fight.

Bunch of wipes from, "Sorry, I've never done this before." Yeah, that's because our off tank always does it. Thanks Bliz for reintroducing Teron Gorefiend mechanics, we sorely missed them...

I did enjoy the shadowmourne line because of the extra effort in getting the infusions - I'd love to see something like this again.

[nekobaka]

The difference being, no aspect of either of those games is going to be denied to you by some guy because you don't have enough experience with some sort of "gun mechanic".

form your own group. raiders was not handed the ability to raid as is they was nobility.

I personally think it should focus almost entirely on solo-based activities of increasing difficulty, with empowerment of increasing quality, and visual enhancements depending on things you accomplish in LFR, Flex, Normal, and Heroic. That way everyone gets to experience the story, and people of varying difficulties all get appropriate rewards, and a visual method that distinguishes what they've accomplished. (Could be procs, different item effects, all sorts of stuff that Blizzard'll likely never do!)

There was talk about this in the previous Welfare legendary thread and this idea was largely shut down by mostly the anti-raiding posters and in large part due to the difficulty factor which makes it more of the anti-challenge posters who did not want to get a lesser reward or have to participate in challenging content in any form.

[Druidjezus]

You have a chance to somewhat redeem your second statement... There TWO past legendaries that made certain boss fights more difficult. Please name the two legendaries and their fights which were effected. If you can't then I really don't think you know what you're talking about.

Well I always love a good trivia question so I'll give this a go:

Daggers had no extra challenge
Tarecgosa made you take a bit of extra damage on Ragnaros so maybe you're referring to that one?
Shadowmourne required you to do a bit on 3 different fights, only one that made it a bit tougher for the raid as a whole was Putricide if you had two keep your spare tank out of the abom, also healing the dps on BQL from the blood mirror I suppose could be considered added difficulty.
The Ulduar mace required you to do at least -1 keeper and throw the thing in at the right time, and that AoE did damage to the raid.
Obviously it wasn't any of the BC legendaries
The two in MC, as I recall, were crafted after you got the drops and didn't involve any boss fights but I could be wrong, I really don't know much about creating Atiesh other than getting the slivers from random drops.


Anyway, a bit OT but the thing that concerns me a lot more about this legendary than it being available through LFR is the negative impact it will have on new players. They've essentially eliminated any possibility of a true catchup. I said it back in 5.0 when we first started assembling the gem that it was going to lead to a problem when it took months to get caught up and here we are, now a player who decides to reroll or come back to the game or even the mystical truly new subscriber is going to be completely barred from heroic raiding this expansion.

I haven't seen it yet personally (I don't read trade chat) but I'm fully expecting in the next couple weeks any even semi-decent raid group's recruiting message will contain "must have cloak" or similar. That is the larger problem when you make a legendary item so accessible, it goes from being a perk to a must-have, and creates a barrier to any new player who wants to get into actual raiding end-game. It almost seems counter-productive to all the other catch-up mechanics they have now, but who knows, maybe that's why they wanted to add them.

For the record, I do know it's a lot easier to get the legendary items now, but it will still take a minimum of 4 weeks (more likely 6-8 weeks) and that's long enough to completely block someone out of progression groups through this tier unfortunately. I know most players don't hit 90 and immediately think "I want to get into a heroic raid group!" but it's just sad to see it taken and put completely out of reach.

[HeedmySpeed]

Have you even done the cloak quest line? You do know there are two solo scenarios, that are challenging enough for your typical LFR raider and a boss fight that requires a group?

The thing is there's a whole lot that is considered "challenging" to a 'typical LFR raider.'
Apparently winning a BG is too much to ask for most players.

I stopped raiding all together (even LFR) right when ToT hit so I can't really judge the other portions of the chain but I think most people criticize the collection segment of the quest chain.
Firelands had a boss too but it was a mere nuisance and wasn't meant to be challenging which is fine since you still had to raid Normals for quest drops.

[Murderdoll]

I just think we need to start putting legendaries up on this pedestal if this is the way they are going to handle them.

Legendary has always been a legendary in WoW because it was not a common item. Through grindy resource collection, RNG, difficulty and through class restriction they have been hard to get, they usually also required a team effort to acquire and was usually a nod from your guild that we think youre worth the time. Dragonwrath was the first one that was a common item amongst casters. While Fangs of the Father were somewhat rarer because they were class restricted they were extremely common amongst raiding rogues.

The term legendary needs to change from being a prestigious, rare, hard to obtain, class restricted item to an item better than an epic.

I imagine itll all change next expansion anyway seeing as Blizzard were not happy how the cloak turned out.

[MoanaLisa]

I'm not saying that Legendaries or even raid gear are solely for raids. I'm saying that the gear, I'm assuming, should be used to progress further in raids. No one says, "Man, I'm glad I got this legendary so I can look cool while I pet battle or tend to my farm." My post was about how it's relevant to make a raid and obtain an item in a raid whose main purpose is for raids.

A lot of people are in 'raid gear' while out on Timeless Isle or earlier in the expansion when doing Heroic Scenarios. It isn't the only way to do it but my guess is that a lot of folks were. It's about progressing your character; not as much about what you look like and not at all about farming and pet battles which I suppose you simply brought up as a distraction. There's more to do in the game than raids and anyone that's done the entire Legendary quest will, I'm sure, find the extra help it gives welcome. As I said earlier on in the thread, I don't sweat people bellowing 'Welfare!' because that's just being a distraction and dramatic for no special reason.

[BobAwesome]

Shadowmourne made the putricide fight harder. Ulduar mace made the yogg fight harder. TF did require an extra boss fight outside of MC. Atiesh also required an extra boss fight outside of Naxx, but TF and Atiesh didn't make any fights harder.

[bewsh]

So much entitilement. So much delusion. So many excuses.

"I pay my $15 you pay your $15 we're equal and I want the same shit you have"

How about those of us smarter than you who pay in sums greater than single months both saving money and aiding development?

I'm not sure if the guy with like 2k forum posts is seriously suggesting that obtaining the "most difficult" or "most tedious grind" items in a massive multiplayer game should be done explicitly solo as an individual. Hard to take that seriously.

Time =/= Effort and if you think it is you are not working efficiently. Time spent is a function of effort.

The legendary questline was nearly effortless. It was basically literally the epitome of the MoP philosophy: Slow the fuck down. Don't want to? OK, wait. The only thing anyone can argue took any degree of effort to complete was fighting wrathion and that was not difficult by any means though I'd imagine was unforgiving for poorly geared players. It was literally the only thing that took thought and the rest could be soaked up AFKing in LFR.

If blizz wanted legendaries to actually be special items they could have easily done so. Multi-tier (ala lfr/flex/raid) items just like the new BoAs. They could have simply made the item drop rate scale down based on difficulty. They could have used any number of other different gating mechanics; instead the gating mechanism they chose was time. Time allows everyone access as long as they wait it out. Unsub/Resub every patch? No worries, they got you covered. Unsub 2 monts into MoP, return for 5.4 to clog server qeues? No problem, enjoy your legendary you just can't have it til you run around and collect this shit at 2000% rate increase but hey... wait it out.


Things like Thoridal weren't even BiS when they were current at times and Thoridal was replaced as soon as someone got SWP loot. Valany'r? Effort. Shadowmourne... Yeah... ... Dragonwrath: "Actively" do a bunch of shit in raid...Fangs of the Father - not able to receive through LFR.... And now MoP: Stand in the back and autoattack alt tabbed watching reruns of buffy the vampire slayer. get handed items -- that's right -- we didn't even need to physically loot the items from a corpse, they were literally handed to us.

The only effort you can say I exerted in obtaining this welfare loot was the effort I would have exerted had there been a global legendary or a class exclusive. It took nothing above me showing up to collect: it is the epitome of a participant's trophy.

[nekobaka]

I don't base the value of my achievements on how many other people have accomplished it. I only care about my effort and the achievements of my friends and guildies. This is mainly because I'm not shallow or toxic.

So you are basing the value of your achievements based on others. Ether you care or your dont. Stop trying to make exceptions to paint yourself like a saint.

[Pharm]

Pretty sure getting the cloak on a fresh 90 still takes about the same time to get to get the most other legendaries since the beggining of Wrath, with the exception being Valnyr- that one takes like 20+ weeks usually.

[Hammerschlag]

I wont be getting mine for a while because I can't be bothered to do the pvp part of the quest

LMAO really? Thats the easiest part of the quest. Man, you PvE-Only people.....

[BobAwesome]

I love all the people who say that all it takes to get this cloak was to shit afk in LFR. Sure says a lot about them and just how cancerous to this game they really are.

[Monteverdi]

I got my legendary cloak tonight. I worked hard for it. I am proud of it.

[schwarzkopf]

I got my legendary cloak tonight. I worked hard for it. I am proud of it.

Mine too ... I was doing most steps when they hadn't been nerfed - that's 6 weeks of VP farming, hundreds of boss kills, several solo quests of varying difficulty, world boss kills. Only thing I think was out of place was the 2 BGs, that wasn't needed and pissed off PVP players more than added anything to it (I was lucky and got both BG wins in 30 minutes).

[Kreeshak]

What I didn't like with legendaries from vanilla and tbc is that they often go to the person with the best public relations.

Who is to say player A deserves the legendary more than player B?

Should it be awarded to the oldest person in the group?
The most skillful?
The girl with the pretty voice on vent everybody fancies?
The person that makes good jokes and people laugh?
The most active person?
The person that needs it the most?
The person that would move to the bigger guild after "using" your guild as a ladder?
The officers who struggle with organization?

Real legendaries as people call them have produced a lot of drama while welfare legendaries make a huge portion of the playerbase happy and extremely few unhappy.

[Zogarth]

Welfare is good, you should be happy

What I didn't like with legendaries from vanilla and tbc is that they often go to the person with the best public relations.

Who is to say player A deserves the legendary more than player B?

Should it be awarded to the oldest person in the group?
The most skillful?
The girl with the pretty voice on vent everybody fancies?
The person that makes good jokes and people laugh?
The most active person?
The person that needs it the most?
The person that would move to the bigger guild after "using" your guild as a ladder?
The officers who struggle with organization?

Real legendaries as people call them have produced a lot of drama while welfare legendaries make a huge portion of the playerbase happy and extremely few unhappy.

Always the guild master or the raid leader mate. Always.

[cFortyfive]

Thanks for the good laugh. It surely did take a whole lot of effort for me to push dat lfr button every once in a while to attain that crap for my alts.

Always the guild master or the raid leader mate. Always.

Total bs.

[schwarzkopf]

What I didn't like with legendaries from vanilla and tbc is that they often go to the person with the best public relations.

I think that if they want to bring back the old way of Legendaries, they should be bind to guild. They should belong to the guild that put the effort in, not an individual that was along for the ride. The guild should get the achievement, not the individual.

The cloak - was more work per person than any other legendary before. The fact it is more common is pretty irrelevant.

[Kreeshak]

I think that if they want to bring back the old way of Legendaries, they should be bind to guild. They should belong to the guild that put the effort in, not an individual that was along for the ride. The guild should get the achievement, not the individual.

The cloak - was more work per person than any other legendary before. The fact it is more common is pretty irrelevant.

But the guild belongs to the guild master! So many cases of guildmasters ripping off the entire guild for their personal agenda.