Welfare Legendary

[Deleted]

Got the cloak last week on patch day.. and as to wether i think the name fits or not... I'd say it does.. just because it didnt require any kind of skill to get apart from logging in frequently.

[spectrefax]

That is because they changed the model.

And in doing so, they took away what made an item "Legendary" to begin with. I imagine by the middle of next xpac, orange items will replace purples, purples will be moved down to the equivalent of what blues are now, and they'll release some red-labeled items to take the place of the devalued legendaries.

Glaives like most legendaries were only so rare because the drop rate for either items leading up to it or the item itself was so low.

Still only furthers the point that the barrier to obtain such items was infinitely higher than most legendary items after it, especially the cloak. Orange tagged items aren't impressive anymore.

[Caliph]

Legendaries are the new Epics, coming soon to a scenario boss loot table near you!

But yes, just logging in, doing menial, thoughtless tasks makes it welfare. Prying the glaives from the dead fingers of a current-content, 25-man raid boss was quite different. The main reason being that you couldn't get it on your own.

Non sensical

By the time you got warglaives, thoridiel, or the staff from firelands the raid was menial as well. The raid would've been on farm mode and nothing more than rng. The same goes for the sigils, and runes for the cloak. If someone only does normals or lfr it's akin to the heroic raider only doing heroics. The level of the player and their play equals out the level of content.

If you don't want the cloak or feel it's welfare, destroy or unequip it.

[spectrefax]

Non sensical

By the time you got warglaives, thoridiel, or the staff from firelands the raid was menial as well. The raid would've been on farm mode and nothing more than rng. The same goes for the sigils, and runes for the cloak. If someone only does normals or lfr it's akin to the heroic raider only doing heroics. The level of the player and their play equals out the level of content.

If you don't want the cloak or feel it's welfare, destroy or unequip it.

You're implying that being in a guild during Black Temple or Firelands as current content (and having your team be skilled enough to get everything on farm before it was replaced by new content) was just as easy as running LFR every week. Sorry, but I think a ton of people are going to disagree with you on that. And they would be right to.

See someone with Glaives or Staff when they were current content: "Hey, that guy must be on a pretty good raid team from a decent guild."

See someone with the cloak: "Ah, he has the exact same cloak as every other player on the sever, who cares."

[Caliph]

You're implying that being in a guild during Black Temple or Firelands as current content was just as easy as running LFR every week. Sorry, but I think a ton of people are going to disagree with you on that. And they would be right to.

I 3 shot illidan and yes it became nothing but a farm boss. For me legendary just means wasting a lot of time to get something that's mostly rng. And it wasn't the lfr all stars or normal raiders like myself who cried about drop rates for the tarecosa staff it was you almighty heroic raiders.

The cloak is nothing more than a progressive quest that rewards the best cloak in the game. All past legendaries were simply farm mode drops. What's the difference. Well there is a difference the model has changed and blizzard doesn't care that you're butt hurt that you aren't a special snow flake.

If you want a legendary simply put in enough time for it.

If you don't like the cloak unequip or destroy it.

[spectrefax]

I 3 shot illidan and yes it became nothing but a farm boss. For me legendary just means wasting a lot of time to get something that's mostly rng. And it wasn't the lfr all stars or normal raiders like myself who cried about drop rates for the tarecosa staff it was you almighty heroic raiders.

The cloak is nothing more than a progressive quest that rewards the best cloak in the game. All past legendaries were simply farm mode drops. What's the difference. Well there is a difference the model has changed and blizzard doesn't care that you're butt hurt that you aren't a special snow flake.

If you want a legendary simply put in enough time for it.

If you don't like the cloak unequip or destroy it.

I don't care who gets it and who doesn't. It's just laughable that you're trying to defend it as a "legendary" item when there are blues that are more rare and difficult to obtain. The cloak is "legendary" by text color only. Suggesting otherwise makes you seem delusional.

Additionally, your heroic-raider hate is lol-worthy as well and wildly misplaced. I've never been a heroic raider. I think someone might be suffering from some deep-rooted, in-game inadequacy and inferiority issues.

[Dormie]

This thread really shows how people do these mental gymnastics to make themselves believe anything. If you think the MoP legendary is anywhere close to as special as the previous legendaries then there's really no arguing with you. Legendaries were rare and hard to get, the cloak is neither. Seriously if the Glaives weren't hard to get then everyone talking should have everything in the game completed.

[Caliph]

I don't care who gets it and who doesn't. It's just laughable that you're trying to defend it as a "legendary" item when there are blues that are more rare and difficult to obtain. The cloak is "legendary" by text color only. Suggesting otherwise makes you seem delusional.

Additionally, your heroic-raider hate is lol-worthy as well and wildly misplaced. I've never been a heroic raider. I think someone might be suffering from some deep-rooted, in-game inadequacy and inferiority issues.

what part of me saying "all legendaries are nothing more than wasting a lot of time to get farm mode rng drops" don't you understand. I didn't care about any legendary in the game so far and i don't care about the cloak. The cloak was simply acquired progressively. It's there for the taking so i took it.

Kind of like farming heroic bosses to take pieces that build a legendary. It only takes time and that's it. And where do you get inadequacy and inferiority from. i have no interest in heroic raiding. If people want to do it go ahead. I have no problem with lfr either. I play a game the way i want to. I have no care what others do.

And what made past legendaries legendary. The fact that they were low drop rates off of farm mode bosses? And stop resorting to name calling.

[spectrefax]

Kind of like farming heroic bosses to take pieces that build a legendary. It only takes time and that's it.

Are you really suggesting that farming heroic raid bosses is no more difficult than AFK'ing in LFR? Really?

[gamingmuscle]

You're implying that being in a guild during Black Temple or Firelands as current content (and having your team be skilled enough to get everything on farm before it was replaced by new content) was just as easy as running LFR every week. Sorry, but I think a ton of people are going to disagree with you on that. And they would be right to.

See someone with Glaives or Staff when they were current content: "Hey, that guy must be on a pretty good raid team from a decent guild."

See someone with the cloak: "Ah, he has the exact same cloak as every other player on the sever, who cares."

BT was easy...you hand what one tricky fight?

The current legendary requires as much individual work as any other legendary. The only difference is obtaining the legendary is not at the mercy of others as it depends entirely on individual effort. This is both good and bad. It can't be given as a reward by a guild...but not requiring a guild to do it is also good.

Being able to afk in LFR is irrelevant. It has always been possible to carry people....the fact that people go afk in LFR is really just an entitlement issue with them.

[Seefer]

what part of me saying "all legendaries are nothing more than wasting a lot of time to get farm mode rng drops" don't you understand. I didn't care about any legendary in the game so far and i don't care about the cloak. The cloak was simply acquired progressively. It's there for the taking so i took it.

Kind of like farming heroic bosses to take pieces that build a legendary. It only takes time and that's it. And where do you get inadequacy and inferiority from. i have no interest in heroic raiding. If people want to do it go ahead. I have no problem with lfr either. I play a game the way i want to. I have no care what others do.

And what made past legendaries legendary. The fact that they were low drop rates off of farm mode bosses? And stop resorting to name calling.

At least you had to put in effort for the other legendaries, you can just afk your way through 98% of the cloak one.

- - - Updated - - -

BT was easy...you hand what one tricky fight?

The current legendary requires as much individual work as any other legendary. The only difference is obtaining the legendary is not at the mercy of others as it depends entirely on individual effort. This is both good and bad. It can't be given as a reward by a guild...but not requiring a guild to do it is also good.

Being able to afk in LFR is irrelevant. It has always been possible to carry people....the fact that people go afk in LFR is really just an entitlement issue with them.

I'm sorry what? No it doesn't lol see my above comment about being able to afk through 98% of it, also back then BT WAS a tough place, I'd almost wager you went into it way later when you could borderline solo it right?

[Sansnom]

I don't care who gets it and who doesn't. It's just laughable that you're trying to defend it as a "legendary" item when there are blues that are more rare and difficult to obtain. The cloak is "legendary" by text color only. Suggesting otherwise makes you seem delusional.

Most drops I know are based on the roll of the dice. From my experience. It is "hard" to get an item due to chance roll. Is that any harder than putting an almost expansion worth of effort to get the item?

In the end, to me, it is only gear and will get replaced. I don't understand why some people get so worked up over gear in a game, what colors it is, who deserves it, how to obtain it, etc.

I call a dog a dog. Some call it a Retriever, Terrier etc. Do they care what I call it? Do I care what they call it. Does that make delusional?

[Kujako]

At least you had to put in effort for the other legendaries, you can just afk your way through 98% of the cloak one.

If you typed "/afk" and got a legendary, it's a bug and you should report it as such.

[Anoregon]

This thread really shows how people do these mental gymnastics to make themselves believe anything. If you think the MoP legendary is anywhere close to as special as the previous legendaries then there's really no arguing with you. Legendaries were rare and hard to get, the cloak is neither. Seriously if the Glaives weren't hard to get then everyone talking should have everything in the game completed.

The glaives weren't particularly hard to get. They just had a low drop rate. Someone with a pair of glaives is in no way a better, more skilled player than any other person who killed Illidan. Being proud of your loot luck makes less sense than being proud of plugging away through an entire expansion's worth of content.

[Skadovsk]

Non sensical

By the time you got warglaives, thoridiel, or the staff from firelands the raid was menial as well. The raid would've been on farm mode and nothing more than rng. The same goes for the sigils, and runes for the cloak. If someone only does normals or lfr it's akin to the heroic raider only doing heroics. The level of the player and their play equals out the level of content.

If you don't want the cloak or feel it's welfare, destroy or unequip it.

Maybe for those 5 guilds that cleared everything in record time, but for most top 30 to 200 US/EU guilds a legendary was still something to help them complete the raid.
Also some of us are calling the cloak a welfare legendary because we don't like the model, not because want to make fun of the casuals that got it, If Blizzard continues with this model of everyone can get the cloak I hope the scenarios required by the end of the quest chain are really incredibly unforgiving and actually require heroic gear to complete, some of us want challenge, something this cloak lacked in every aspect;
Wrathion scenarios? 1 shot without even reading about anything and standing in every single bad stuff that was possible to stand in and just burned it in seconds.
That Krasarang Wilds boss? Soloed as a kitty, not hard, PvP part? Also easy but not entirely dependent on you, that's it. Everything else I did in guild raids, not LFR because screw going to that cesspool of AIDS and it still was dead easy, like it was handed to me just by doing what I normally do.
So there you have it, welfare legendary #2, as easy as welfare legendary #1 rogue daggers.

I would actually like legendaries that change how bosses are killed or dealt with, like Shadowmourne, like FL staff, I don't care everyone can get it, as long as you actually have to do something that challenges you and your raid, its all good... Now, sure LFR can have that too, but they should also have to deal with the same exact extra mechanics with no difficulty change other than the bosses themselves, now here's the catch, the legendary actually changes in ilvl and therefore proc rate depending on what difficulty (LFR, Flex, Normal, Heroic) it was "created", but allows it to "level up" depending on new boss kills, so lets say you finished a legendary in a normal raid because your guild actually invested time and sacrificed some heroic kills to unlock the legendary, now everyone who has that legendary can start to increase the new legendary's Ilvl, visuals and proc rate by killing heroic bosses.

So there you have it, a legendary that is not complete faceroll and it actually forces the player to work for it in raids of any type, promotes character and guild progression in raids and depends less on RNG drops.

[Seefer]

If you typed "/afk" and got a legendary, it's a bug and you should report it as such.

Did I say you typed /afk? Nope, you could sit there and do NOTHING, and still get the drops in LFR.

[Caliph]

Did I say you typed /afk? Nope, you could sit there and do NOTHING, and still get the drops in LFR.

You're still not getting it. Legendary is nothing more than a time sink. Whether getting it through some pvp, rep grind and afk in raids or farming heroic bosses. It's just a time sink.

[saucywench]

I'd agree that an equally long quest chain that didn't involve quite as much raiding would probably be very entertaining.

I agree it would feel more game immersive, like youre part of the lore; I enjoyed the Wrathion summing up the adventure.

[AeneasBK]

So - what you are saying is that it was easy, required little effort - and therefore - welfare ?

Not so much that I'm just refuting that getting a legendary required some form of extra effort from your guild to acquire, 99% of getting them was business as usual, and I think I gave the only examples that break that, namely the extra "boss" in Firelands, and the 3 stages of Shadowfury before Shadowmourne. I don't really use the term welfare, as far as I can tell the only welfare gear in this game comes with the free 80 you get with scroll of resurrection...

As far as extra effort goes, this cloak required far more from the individual than any of the legendaries prior to it. Thats not really disputable. Because that effort was accessable to more people does not, in fact, diminish that it was shit you had to do before you could progress the quest line. For me I hated the 6k VP grind. For others it was the 2 PVP BG wins. Some people didn't like dragging their ass through LFR to farm up the tokens (how many iterations of that part were there along the way? 3 total or was it 4?). Compared to the prequest to getting your 264 Shadow Fury, or the pre Tarecgosa's Wrath staff quest line, its still a hell of lot more game hours required. You could argue that the Tarecgosa quest was difficult, and I wouldn't dispute that gave a few of our casters one or two problems. But then again one of our derp mages also managed it (after several hours of trying) so I doubt it was impossible tough either.

[gamingmuscle]

I'm sorry what? No it doesn't lol see my above comment about being able to afk through 98% of it, also back then BT WAS a tough place, I'd almost wager you went into it way later when you could borderline solo it right?

Sorry to break it to you, but no...I did it when it was current. When you got an actual argument you can come back.

I found BT to be easy. Only fight I had any issue with was Gorefiend and that was more of GUI issues than the concepts in the fight.

You have always been able to be carried...so people do it in the easiest form of content. Really that just shows a problem with those that do it...they feel so entitled they expect to not even do the minimum amount of work possible. But they can do it.

The moment I can log in and recieve my legendary in the mail for just being a customer you can call it welfare. Until then drop this stupid notion. Every item in the game requires work of some form or another. Nothing is given. The work may be trivial...but it is still work.