Page 40 of 52 FirstFirst ...
30
38
39
40
41
42
50
... LastLast
  1. #781
    Quote Originally Posted by spectrefax View Post
    Seems you're wrong. Even by the very definition you listed, the cloak doesn't qualify as a "real" legendary, but it does qualify as a "welfare" legendary, courtesy of the orange text accompanying it.
    you only quoted part of the definition. The cloak required multiple end game instances, was crafted, and is the most powerful item in its slot. And blizzard as its right changed the definition to make it more available. Kind of like the daggers, and staff.

  2. #782
    Legendary! Deficineiron's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Forum Logic
    Posts
    6,576
    Quote Originally Posted by gamingmuscle View Post
    I bet you...the number of full time raiders > number of cloaks =P But that gap is obviously a lot closer than daggers/staff/glaives/...etc Still even if # raiders == # cloaks, doesn't make the statement "welfare" true.
    agreed. I do not believe I have actually used the term welfare in describing wow gear, ever.
    Authors I have enjoyed enough to mention here: JRR Tolkein, Poul Anderson,Jack Vance, Gene Wolfe, Glen Cook, Brian Stableford, MAR Barker, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, WM Hodgson, Fredrick Brown, Robert SheckleyJohn Steakley, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Silverberg, the norse sagas, CJ Cherryh, PG Wodehouse, Clark Ashton Smith, Alastair Reynolds, Cordwainer Smith, LE Modesitt, L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, Stephen R Donaldon, and Jack L Chalker.

  3. #783
    Bloodsail Admiral Annarion's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    1,195
    I've told this story before. We were in a race for server first Kil'Jaeden, our guild had no legendary drops, other guild had one offhand that went to their second-best rogue because the best wasn't on that night. We're both working on Mu'ru the cockblock of the century. In six weeks a guild that was firmly in 5th place got 3 mainhands, 3 offhands, blasted through and beat us to it.

    Welfare legendaries indeed.

  4. #784
    Quote Originally Posted by Xdenek View Post
    Actually, yes. Killing Illibobs was significantly more difficult with 1. less gear, 2. having to compose own strategy, 3. no movies. Getting to Illidan wasn't a cakewalk either, shadow gear gear for Shahraz, Gorefiend, Council, Reliq all challenging in their own regard.

    It's a game forum, discussing a game. Competitive is competitive. You were also disingenuous claiming you "three shotted Illidan" - purporting you were one of the very first to drop him.
    A lot of that wasn't hard either...some of it was tedious tho.

    Stating you 3 shot some end boss doesn't translate into a world first kind of guild. Only that he had 3 attempts before downing. With no other information that is all you can conclude from his statement. If you want to speculate...there are several scenarios that easily explain it that do not involve world first guild =P
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrandir View Post
    My starfall brings all the mobs to the yard.
    Laurellen - Druid Smiteyou - lol holy dps

  5. #785
    I think a lot of you casuals are just butthurt that you finally get an easy to acquire orange and are upset that the item is so common that it doesn't garner the least bit of attention or respect for your efforts, despite how feverishly you argue that you "have a legendary." People are just pointing out to you all that the orange-text piece of gear you have is just a meaningless piece of everyday, commonplace gear, regardless of the color text is has. Aside from it's stats, there's nothing even remotely special about that cloak, at all. It's no different then you farming a piece of gear from a 5 man, really, no matter how much you say otherwise.

  6. #786
    This item is intended for people without this poisonous attitude, people who actually put in an effort and want a legendary so their effort pays off better.
    People with "your attitude" might as well quit the game.
    It's not actually. The legendary is intended for people who sucked too much before to get their hands on one. Even though it was apparently just as easy to do so.

  7. #787
    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    agreed. I do not believe I have actually used the term welfare in describing wow gear, ever.
    It is the topic of the thread....it may not be 100% relevant to you, but to the topic at hand I stand by the entire statement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrandir View Post
    My starfall brings all the mobs to the yard.
    Laurellen - Druid Smiteyou - lol holy dps

  8. #788
    Legendary! Deficineiron's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Forum Logic
    Posts
    6,576
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    So you are saying that 98% is mindlessly clearing raids.
    And that makes it different from other legendaries.. because?
    Hello Kangodo!

    Just for argument purposes, we could compare and contrast

    Mindlessly clearing naxx40 in classic - how many people actually did this mindlessly? if it was mindless, why didn't more?
    mindlessly clear BT in bc - was it mindless pre-2.4? just getting to bt implied some mind, as it is widely claimed kael and vashj were not mindless fights (but see my -everyone was carried- argument further back? you I know will get the sarcasm).
    Mindlessly clear SWP pre-30% nerf.

    and compare to mindlessly running LFR in panda?
    And mindlessly running normal in panda?
    is the prior set comparable mindlessness to either of the latter two?
    Authors I have enjoyed enough to mention here: JRR Tolkein, Poul Anderson,Jack Vance, Gene Wolfe, Glen Cook, Brian Stableford, MAR Barker, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, WM Hodgson, Fredrick Brown, Robert SheckleyJohn Steakley, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Silverberg, the norse sagas, CJ Cherryh, PG Wodehouse, Clark Ashton Smith, Alastair Reynolds, Cordwainer Smith, LE Modesitt, L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, Stephen R Donaldon, and Jack L Chalker.

  9. #789
    Quote Originally Posted by Xdenek View Post
    Actually, yes. Killing Illibobs was significantly more difficult with 1. less gear, 2. having to compose own strategy, 3. no movies. Getting to Illidan wasn't a cakewalk either, shadow gear gear for Shahraz, Gorefiend, Council, Reliq all challenging in their own regard.

    It's a game forum, discussing a game. Competitive is competitive. You were also disingenuous claiming you "three shotted Illidan" - purporting you were one of the very first to drop him.
    Oh composing my own strategy. So you never read strats, watch videos, or have anyone in the raid who does? You come up with your own strats, wow good for you. I guess you're legendary. The millions of us are just scrubs because we watch boss strats.

    And no getting to illidan wasn't a cake walk, or didn't you understand that when i said we had difficulty (like everybody else) with vashj and KT. And getting to illidan entails clearing BT, which i stated. And whether you believe me or not doesn't matter.

    And disingenuous? You make statements about strats and call people liars and i'm disingenuous. wow.

  10. #790
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by gamingmuscle View Post
    A lot of that wasn't hard either...some of it was tedious tho.

    Stating you 3 shot some end boss doesn't translate into a world first kind of guild. Only that he had 3 attempts before downing. With no other information that is all you can conclude from his statement. If you want to speculate...there are several scenarios that easily explain it that do not involve world first guild =P
    What can I say, most of the time i'm a cynical bastard, the rest I have tourette's!

  11. #791
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    So what?

    A guy joins in on the lottery and wins a car.
    Another guy works his ass of for 6 months to get a car.
    Who has earned the car more?

    the guy who worked his ass off obviously
    There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP

  12. #792
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    It's not actually. The legendary is intended for people who sucked too much before to get their hands on one. Even though it was apparently just as easy to do so.
    No the item is for anyone. If you have the means to complete it you should. Unlike previous legendaries that depended on others allowing you the chance to complete it/roll on it. This change is good for the individual but bad for guilds, as it removed a mechanism to reward loyalty/performance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrandir View Post
    My starfall brings all the mobs to the yard.
    Laurellen - Druid Smiteyou - lol holy dps

  13. #793
    Legendary! Deficineiron's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Forum Logic
    Posts
    6,576
    Quote Originally Posted by Zatetic View Post
    Well obviously there are more cloaks than any prior legendary. the cloak can be equipped by any class or spec.
    i also bet there are more cloaks/classes than any prior legendary/class, even if you want to back out dk's and monks from the relevant prior legendary comparisons.
    Authors I have enjoyed enough to mention here: JRR Tolkein, Poul Anderson,Jack Vance, Gene Wolfe, Glen Cook, Brian Stableford, MAR Barker, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, WM Hodgson, Fredrick Brown, Robert SheckleyJohn Steakley, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Silverberg, the norse sagas, CJ Cherryh, PG Wodehouse, Clark Ashton Smith, Alastair Reynolds, Cordwainer Smith, LE Modesitt, L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, Stephen R Donaldon, and Jack L Chalker.

  14. #794
    Quote Originally Posted by spectrefax View Post
    I think a lot of you casuals are just butthurt that you finally get an easy to acquire orange and are upset that the item is so common that it doesn't garner the least bit of attention or respect for your efforts, despite how feverishly you argue that you "have a legendary." People are just pointing out to you all that the orange-text piece of gear you have is just a meaningless piece of everyday, commonplace gear, regardless of the color text is has. Aside from it's stats, there's nothing even remotely special about that cloak, at all. It's no different then you farming a piece of gear from a 5 man, really, no matter how much you say otherwise.
    Prettymuch this. I put more effort into getting some rep pieces in BC than getting the cloak.

  15. #795
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    Hello Kangodo!

    Just for argument purposes, we could compare and contrast

    Mindlessly clearing naxx40 in classic - how many people actually did this mindlessly? if it was mindless, why didn't more?
    mindlessly clear BT in bc - was it mindless pre-2.4? just getting to bt implied some mind, as it is widely claimed kael and vashj were not mindless fights (but see my -everyone was carried- argument further back? you I know will get the sarcasm).
    Mindlessly clear SWP pre-30% nerf.

    and compare to mindlessly running LFR in panda?
    And mindlessly running normal in panda?
    is the prior set comparable mindlessness to either of the latter two?
    Good post!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Caliph View Post
    Oh composing my own strategy. So you never read strats, watch videos, or have anyone in the raid who does? You come up with your own strats, wow good for you. I guess you're legendary. The millions of us are just scrubs because we watch boss strats.

    And no getting to illidan wasn't a cake walk, or didn't you understand that when i said we had difficulty (like everybody else) with vashj and KT. And getting to illidan entails clearing BT, which i stated. And whether you believe me or not doesn't matter.

    And disingenuous? You make statements about strats and call people liars and i'm disingenuous. wow.
    I've gotten to end-game bosses before strats and videos are out yes. That means I actually have a clue about the difficulty of that.

    I have called nobody a liar, tyvm.

  16. #796
    Legendary! Deficineiron's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Forum Logic
    Posts
    6,576
    Quote Originally Posted by Anoregon View Post
    You are totally ignoring my point. A person that has glaives has absolutely no standing over every other person who killed Illidan when it was relevant content. They are no more deserving of having an orange item then every other person in their raid. They just had better loot RNG (and the correct class). "having it drop and obtain it" has no bearing on the actual difficulty or skill required to obtain the item. The item either drops or it doesn't. It's just luck.

    If you think a low drop rate is an intrinsic part of a legendary item, that's nice I guess. But don't confuse the blizzard RNG smiling upon someone with actual difficulty or skill.
    but this fits with the definition of legendary at that time - the accomplishment was killing illidan when bt was top tier. the glaives were exception, nearly-unique items with a very low drop rate which were intended to be very special items that you MIGHT see if you raided the expansion extensively. At a more subtle level, they may have been intended to provide that extra carrot to some players, though the class limitations they had might argue against this. nonetheless, I think having goals, no matter how unlikely they are to be obtained, is a big psychological part of motivation.

    A better 'goal' comparison will be deathcharger - how many folks have solo'd strath or earlier ran stratholme hoping to see what was at one point the single rarest drop in the game?
    Authors I have enjoyed enough to mention here: JRR Tolkein, Poul Anderson,Jack Vance, Gene Wolfe, Glen Cook, Brian Stableford, MAR Barker, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, WM Hodgson, Fredrick Brown, Robert SheckleyJohn Steakley, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Silverberg, the norse sagas, CJ Cherryh, PG Wodehouse, Clark Ashton Smith, Alastair Reynolds, Cordwainer Smith, LE Modesitt, L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, Stephen R Donaldon, and Jack L Chalker.

  17. #797
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    Prettymuch this. I put more effort into getting some rep pieces in BC than getting the cloak.
    Spent more effort levelling in BC than getting the cloak.

  18. #798
    Quote Originally Posted by Xdenek View Post
    Spent more effort levelling in BC than getting the cloak.
    I put more effort into getting a warglaive in BC than this cloak... o wait...

  19. #799
    Quote Originally Posted by Xdenek View Post
    Good post!

    - - - Updated - - -



    I've gotten to end-game bosses before strats and videos are out yes. That means I actually have a clue about the difficulty of that.

    I have called nobody a liar, tyvm.
    I cleared all of vanilla with exception of naxx and aq40 without strats so what?

    And yes you called me disingenuous after i clearly stated how and why i 3 shot illidan implying i'm lying.

  20. #800
    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    and compare to mindlessly running LFR in panda?
    And mindlessly running normal in panda?
    is the prior set comparable mindlessness to either of the latter two?
    Well for me I would say yes =P, except I never cleared sunwell. Guild dramas...exploded lost 15 core members and didn't recover in time to clear it. Got a few bosses in before wrath.

    I can mindlessly push buttons just as well in heroic as LFR =P Nothing in WoW has really required much thought...just awareness and reaction time. So yes pretty much every raid has been as mindless as LFR =P
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrandir View Post
    My starfall brings all the mobs to the yard.
    Laurellen - Druid Smiteyou - lol holy dps

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •