There are no "races" in WoW

[smartazjb0y]

Interbreeding and speciation are pretty confusing.

Tiger and lions are different species, yet they can interbreed, AND not all hybrid products are sterile (look up liligers). I think female ligers are actually fertile. Yet, tigers and lions are still separate species.

That's beside the point, though. Yes, the "races" of WoW are technically species, but that's a semantic issue and no one really cares at this point. And, you could make an argument that being in a fantasy universe mucks things up a bit.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Generally in fantasy (dungeons and dragons primarily), each "species" is refered to as a 'race', it's not that important.

[bigrichard]

Thanks for sharing this information with us. I had no idea!

[godofslack]

I think Med'an (whi si quarter orc, qquarter draenei and half human) would be a perfect example of this then. His mother was the product of and orc and a draenei and she was able to have Med'an with Medhiv.

And Rexxar too, being the son of an half Orc half Ogre and an Orc.

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Interbreeding and speciation are pretty confusing.

Tiger and lions are different species, yet they can interbreed, AND not all hybrid products are sterile (look up liligers). I think female ligers are actually fertile. Yet, tigers and lions are still separate species.

That's beside the point, though. Yes, the "races" of WoW are technically species, but that's a semantic issue and no one really cares at this point. And, you could make an argument that being in a fantasy universe mucks things up a bit.

The difference is the failure rate, no male ligers are fertile, and there seems to be no evidence that male or female cross race hybrids are sterile, and there are in lore examples of both male and female hybrids reproducing.

[Last Starfighter]

Races are a subtype of the same species denoted by varying physical traits and characteristics.

In WoW the orcs, humans, forsaken and elves are all different species - they ARE NOT races...so why do players and Blizzard continue to refer to them as "races"?

There may very well be races within the species of WoW - you could say that blood elves and night elves are both races of the elf species, but people and Blizzard need to correct themselves and stop using "race" to refer to what actually are different species.

Check it out. This is fantasy. So let it be fantasy. How do you know in their world, that species are races. Lets let it be.

[Professor Expert]

Check it out. This is fantasy. So let it be fantasy. How do you know in their world, that species are races. Lets let it be.

I know that an orc, human and dranei are NOT the same species. They have obviously different physical traits, bodies and abilities. The story writers making allowances for them being able to interbreed doesn't make them "races".

A good fiction has roots in fact, which makes the story believable and thus more engaging. Would you say that the syfy saturday moves like sharknado represent the pinnacle of sci-fi storytelling?

Correctly referring to unique species as species rather than races wouldn't be a big deal to change now would it? WoW, being the largest game of its time, should lead by example on this one.

[Deleted]

Hmm, incorrect term for species used... ability to receive fully dragon mount in a mailbox... which one of these problems worries me more?

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I know that an orc, human and dranei are NOT the same species. They have obviously different physical traits, bodies and abilities. The story writers making allowances for them being able to interbreed doesn't make them "races".

A good fiction has roots in fact, which makes the story believable and thus more engaging. Would you say that the syfy saturday moves like sharknado represent the pinnacle of sci-fi storytelling?

Correctly referring to unique species as species rather than races wouldn't be a big deal to change now would it? WoW, being the largest game of its time, should lead by example on this one.

Actually, you only 'think' you know anything about the game's lore. Whatever Blizzard says is canon, is canon. If they turn around with a massive plot twist saying they're all actually distantly related races of the same species, you can either live with it, or complain on a forum about it. Maybe Blizzard did fuck this up and need a reminder of definitions (See: Red Shirt Guy), or maybe you don't ''know'' nearly as much as you think. Your certainty in this matter is unjustified at best.

[Professor Expert]

Nope, the Biochemist was correct. According to the Biological Species concept, arguably the most accepted definition of a species in the scientific world, for two organisms to be from different species they must be incompatible when mating, thus interbreeding does not occur (reproductive isolation).

In WoW, the "species" interbreed, and thus would be consider different races or at most different sub species.

You can find more information by googling the Biological Species Concept.

Source: im a Bio major

The taxonomy of horses and donkeys does not consider them to be of the same species and they would not naturally breed with each other even though they are biologically compatible.

Some species can produce offspring, however the offspring ends up with genes from one parent rather than both.

The capability to interbreed does not mean that the two creatures which breed together are the same species. It is likely that inter-species breeding, which is what we're talking about, is an evolutionary trait that further assists in diversifying life.

Someone else mentioned ligers (tiger and lion offspring) - but ligers are an animal which would likely not survive in the environment that lions and tigers typically inhabit. It's too big and too slow to hunt, so there's a reason we don't see many (if any) wild ligers even if by some occurrence a lion mated with a tiger in the wild without human intervention.

So the fixation on breeding needs to stop because it's proof of nothing. What WoW refers to as "races" are actually species. That's all.

[Effbee]

I'm sure Tolkien also referred to things like Orcs and Men and Dwarves as "races" rather than species. As such, your argument is invalid and you should feel bad

[ophion1990]

Races are a subtype of the same species denoted by varying physical traits and characteristics.

In WoW the orcs, humans, forsaken and elves are all different species - they ARE NOT races...so why do players and Blizzard continue to refer to them as "races"?

There may very well be races within the species of WoW - you could say that blood elves and night elves are both races of the elf species, but people and Blizzard need to correct themselves and stop using "race" to refer to what actually are different species.

Aren't they all humanoids? Humanoids are the species and everything else is a race? It's a detail and you're late to the party I guess, doubt they'll suddenly change everything after all these years.

[Professor Expert]

Hmm, incorrect term for species used... ability to receive fully dragon mount in a mailbox... which one of these problems worries me more?

Actually, you only 'think' you know anything about the game's lore. Whatever Blizzard says is canon, is canon. If they turn around with a massive plot twist saying they're all actually distantly related races of the same species, you can either live with it, or complain on a forum about it. Maybe Blizzard did fuck this up and need a reminder of definitions (See: Red Shirt Guy), or maybe you don't ''know'' nearly as much as you think. Your certainty in this matter is unjustified at best.

I have no problem with the idea that, in the WoW universe, I can bust a dragon out of a fanny pack in 1.5 seconds, jump on it and fly around endlessly. Obviously it would detract from the game if they tried to make it "realistic", where you'd have to keep the dragon in some kind of den, feed it and play with it. You'd then have to "summon" it to pick you up and wait for it to fly from wherever the den is to where you are before you can hop on.

Now contrast that to properly referring to the playable species in WoW as species rather than "races". Doing so wouldn't detract from the plot and only makes the story better. The game play will not diminish and it would also make WoW look a bit smarter.

[Rhywolver]

The term race is pretty common in fantasy settings, but also Half-Breeds are more common than in Warcraft. I think the most common interbreed is Highelf/Human.

In the case of Med'an, he is very special in that way that his life seemed to be next to impossible, which means that it is not common that Orcs or Draenei can interbreed with humans.

[Synstir]

I can't believe that dranei and humans are the same species....

[Cosmic Janitor]

A bunch or people with artsy fartsy degrees that happen to be good at story telling (well somehwat..) or designing/drawing stuff, don't apply scientific terms correctly, who'd have thought? Next you tell me thermo dynamics don't apply in WoW or even that the plant of Azeroth wouldn't given its size, be able to sustain life on its own?! Blasphemy!

While I applaud your attempt at educating people, you might have fared better with a "scientific mumbo-jumbo in WoW" Thread. And started off with you race/species argument.

[FuxieDK]

Species and race is two very different things.. Species is a much more general category than race (or family)....

Example:
Species: Canine, Family: Wolf, Race: Lupus Lupus (common wolf)
Species: Canine, Family: Dog, Race: Bulldog
Species: Canine, Family: Dog: German Shepherd
Species: Canine, Family: Fox, Race: Red Fox

All of them are canine species.. Wolf and dog can inter-breed, not ony with other member of dog-family, but with other families (dog/wolf) as well. Foxes can inter-breed with other fox-families, but not other canines...
There really aren't any general rules...

[yjmark]

seems like everyone is discussing the definition of "species", however noone has defined "race". What denotes different races?

imho - Warcraft races could be considered races or species....there is nothing stating that they are mutually exclusive, especially since the definition of "race" is very subjective.

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Species and race is two very different things.. Species is a much more general category than race (or family)....

Example:
Species: Canine, Family: Wolf, Race: Lupus Lupus (common wolf)
Species: Canine, Family: Dog, Race: Bulldog
Species: Canine, Family: Dog: German Shepherd
Species: Canine, Family: Fox, Race: Red Fox

All of them are canine species.. Wolf and dog can inter-breed, not ony with other member of dog-family, but with other families (dog/wolf) as well. Foxes can inter-breed with other fox-families, but not other canines...
There really aren't any general rules...

I have never seen Race being a formal subset of Species. My understanding is that it goes Species -> Genus -> Family -> Order -> Class -> Phylum -> Kingdom -> Domain. There is no "Race" in the heirarchy

[FuxieDK]

seems like everyone is discussing the definition of "species", however noone has defined "race". What denotes different races?

imho - Warcraft races could be considered races or species....there is nothing stating that they are mutually exclusive, especially since the definition of "race" is very subjective.

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I have never seen Race being a formal subset of Species. My understanding is that it goes Species -> Genus -> Family -> Order -> Class -> Phylum -> Kingdom -> Domain. There is no "Race" in the heirarchy

No doubt, there is room for more categories than I specified.. I was explaining a principle, not making a Ph.D. ;-)

Most of the labels you use, are some, people have never heard about before, I just broke it down in the most common ones..... and German Shepherd is the RACE of this specific dog-family, canine-species animal....

[Deleted]

... In WoW the orcs, humans, forsaken and elves are all different species ...

Humans and forsaken are neither different species nor different races, they are exactly the same, only difference is that forsaken are practically corpses.
The interbreeding argument also doesn't work on forsaken just because they are dead, but they can interbreed as long as they are alive = are human. So yeah, races.

[Szethius]

Breeding gone wrong...

"Kill me"

[yjmark]

No doubt, there is room for more categories than I specified.. I was explaining a principle, not making a Ph.D. ;-)

Most of the labels you use, are some, people have never heard about before, I just broke it down in the most common ones..... and German Shepherd is the RACE of this specific dog-family, canine-species animal....

I think you missed my point. "Race" is a subjective term that is not in any heirarchy of biological classification. The ones I listed are. So German Shepherd is only a subjective type of "race" classification that you have. "Race" is not a biological scientific term. It is a social term that people started using for different things.

And technically:

Canidae = Family (sometimes referred to as Canine)
Canis = Genus (also sometimes referred to as Canine)
Canis Lupis = Species
Dog = subspecies