Siege of Orgrimmar, too easy?

[Obsolus]

Hello guys, I come to you today to ask for your humble opinions.

I have a guild over on Silvermoon. As the GM, I class us as a "hard-casual" guild, basically lying between casual and semi-hardcore. (I made it up myself. Do you like it?) and I have a general question regarding the whole of tier 16.

Do you find the Siege of Orgrimmar too easy? Last tier, it took my around 50 days since the release of 5.2 to get up to Primordius on normal. We were a fairly new guild at this point, and to be fair we had a lot of issues with abscences in the team etc but netherthe less, we (on average) saw a new boss kill every week.

Since 5.4 was released last Wednesday, my team (which has not changed TOO much since 5.2) has seen 7 boss kills in three raid nights. 2 hours each. Thats 6 hours of raiding. That is more than one new boss kill per hour. Obviously, there are MANY guilds doing much better than this already. Blood Legion for example, as you know, has almost cleared the raid on heroic before Europe has even had a chance to see it!

So. How is your guild finding Siege. Easy/undertuned? Hard? Or are you comfortable with the difficulty? I'd love to see the results!

(P.s. please don't brag about how good you are compared to other people. I just want to know the opinions of casual and hardcore raiders alike!)

[Deleted]

If you're decked out in last tier heroic-items ofcourse its easy since you outgear the content.

You should add another choice to the poll:

"Yeah SoO-normals are easier because we outgear it"

[Pastspirit]

Hello guys, I come to you today to ask for your humble opinions.

I have a guild over on Silvermoon. As the GM, I class us as a "hard-casual" guild, basically lying between casual and semi-hardcore. (I made it up myself. Do you like it?) and I have a general question regarding the whole of tier 16.

So. How is your guild finding Siege. Easy/undertuned? Hard? Or are you comfortable with the difficulty? I'd love to see the results!

As a hardcore raider, the first 6 bosses have been fairly easy, though that's to be expected with fairly decent gear. A couple of them weren't complete pushovers though, and dark shamans is probably the first block you will see H guilds start to hit soon. I sorta wish the first ~3 bosses were easy then they got hard. I guess we'll see how the later bosses are.

[Fenixdown]

OP, you forget that most of the heroic hardcore progression starts that way in these large raids. If I recall, after the first day the top guilds were already 7/13. 9/14 isn't that much more progressed than that.

However, they'll hit a wall (and likely may have already) and their progress will slow down.

[Nero Duskwind]

Normal mode of SoO is tuned on the presumption that the raid's minimum average item level is at least between 520 and 530. A competent guild that has long since cleared and made even the slightest headway in heroic progression in ToT will find at least the first half of SoO to be on the easy side. Hopefully, heroic SoO will prove to be a more satisfying challenge.

[Deleted]

If you're decked out in last tier heroic-items ofcourse its easy since you outgear the content.

You should add another choice to the poll:

"Yeah SoO-normals are easier because we outgear it"

You shouldn't be able to outgear the content so vastly. Even with thunderforged gear and 13/13H gear etc, you CANNOT faceroll through heroic in a pace like that. The content has to account for the thunderforged gear as well as guilds that were able kill 2 heroic bosses per 1 month in ToT, because they added said content. One solution could be having more than 13 item levels between tiers for example. Gear inflation has caused the development team to be shown in a bad light once again. Either way, a non-conformist move should have been made.


In a 14-boss-raid, it isn't enough that only 1/4 of the bosses are actually difficult. It reeks of the lack of epicness. That is why Tier 11 and Tier 15 were just awesome. Every boss was a microcosm and engaged you in different aspects of gameplay. They had FUN designing the bosses and their mechanics, whereas Siege of Orgrimmar, it seems, was merely a responsibility from a year ago they just had to somehow finish, against the grain of needing to get working on the new expansion.

Again, not all of you may share my philosophy, but I find myself to have been a connoisseur of these sorts of things multiple times before. SoO is not anything exceptionally banal, but it saw Blizzard lowering their quality and non-quality barrier from the momentary height that was ToT.

[slime]

Now that I've tried both - I do think something is wrong with the 10 man tuning, it was face-roll on all the bosses we downed, where 25 man did give us some issues on the 3rd boss.

[Nero Duskwind]

OP, you forget that most of the heroic hardcore progression starts that way in these large raids. If I recall, after the first day the top guilds were already 7/13. 9/14 isn't that much more progressed than that.

However, they'll hit a wall (and likely may have already) and their progress will slow down.

I believe an above average semi-hardcore 25-man guild will likely hit its first wall as early as Malkorok while the average guilds will hit it as early as Norushen.

[Nobleshield]

I'm finding it fairly challenging actually, but my guild has never been "hardcore" and the guild was one of those nearly destroyed by Horridon in T15 normal. I think our average ilevel is about 520 or so and we're having difficulties with Norushen at the moment. So just right for us - challenging but it doesn't seem frustrating.

[Deleted]

If they can faceroll through the current heroic teir with the last teirs heroic gear then yes it is far too easy.
It honestly cant be much fun either, downing all bosses in less than a month then just chill until next expansion.

[Trubo]

Isn't SoO normal tuned for 522 gear? Full ToT 2/2 Heroic means you're about on par for SoO Heroics.

If they can faceroll through the current heroic teir with the last teirs heroic gear then yes it is far too easy.
It honestly cant be much fun either, downing all bosses in less than a month then just chill until next expansion.

Keep in mind that these guilds did every version of the PTR fights so they've already put in more time on them than most of the playerbase.

I believe an above average semi-hardcore 25-man guild will likely hit its first wall as early as Malkorok while the average guilds will hit it as early as Norushen.

I'd say Thok for the first; easy fight but you want to maximize time between phases. Agree on Norushen as the biggest hurdle on that fight is finding the order of purification that works for you (e.g. don't send 2/5 dps down every time).

[NightZero88]

Hello guys, I come to you today to ask for your humble opinions.

I have a guild over on Silvermoon. As the GM, I class us as a "hard-casual" guild, basically lying between casual and semi-hardcore. (I made it up myself. Do you like it?) and I have a general question regarding the whole of tier 16.

Do you find the Siege of Orgrimmar too easy? Last tier, it took my around 50 days since the release of 5.2 to get up to Primordius on normal. We were a fairly new guild at this point, and to be fair we had a lot of issues with abscences in the team etc but netherthe less, we (on average) saw a new boss kill every week.

Since 5.4 was released last Wednesday, my team (which has not changed TOO much since 5.2) has seen 7 boss kills in three raid nights. 2 hours each. Thats 6 hours of raiding. That is more than one new boss kill per hour. Obviously, there are MANY guilds doing much better than this already. Blood Legion for example, as you know, has almost cleared the raid on heroic before Europe has even had a chance to see it!

So. How is your guild finding Siege. Easy/undertuned? Hard? Or are you comfortable with the difficulty? I'd love to see the results!

(P.s. please don't brag about how good you are compared to other people. I just want to know the opinions of casual and hardcore raiders alike!)

The group I raid with was 6/13H last tier. We 1 or 2 shot the first 4 bosses on our first night. Then downed the next 2 the next day and hit our first block at the dark shaman. We've raided 9 hours or so last week. So we're about as hardcore as you sound, maybe a bit worse. The difficulty seems about right. It starts out fairly easy then slowly ramps up. I think it's relatively perfect.

[cFortyfive]

As probably expected by quite a couple of people even without an unreasonable number of alt groups for the first normal id the first heroics were really quite easy. It should be very obvious to anyone taking even a short look at wowprogress.

[Weightlifter]

Very undertuned, but still too difficult for our guild because we have shit players in our ranks. But because those players are our raid leader's friends, they can fail as much as they want and never get shouted at. For example, he thinks if melee DPS dies because of not enough heals, it is never the healers fault, and it means that melee DPS (or their players) bad and need to be benched

[Rend Blackhand]

I'm sure HC mode will satisfy people for difficulty

[RoKPaNda]

Very undertuned, but still too difficult for our guild because we have shit players in our ranks. But because those players are our raid leader's friends, they can fail as much as they want and never get shouted at. For example, he thinks if melee DPS dies because of not enough heals, it is never the healers fault, and it means that melee DPS (or their players) bad and need to be benched

Sounds like you need to find a new guild.

[Crashdummy]

You are asking if one of the Normal tiers that took top guilds longer to kill is too easy?

Your raid group is probably overgeared for the Normal content, and wasnt overgeared last tier.

Also, ToT was SEVERELY overtuned.

Also, only top guilds keep trying. The lower 70% of Normal guilds (the lower 70%) stopped trying in the last two tiers. MoP killed the Normal raiding scene with the stupid difficulty of HoF and ToT, and most of the ones that keep trying are Heroic level or near Heroic level guilds.

And as always, 10 man is SEVERELY overtuned.

[Caliph]

I'm pugging right now although a fairly consistent (for 1 week anyway) pug. We're on Dark shaman but expect to beat that tonight and move forward. the first 4 are now 1 shots, with the next 2 a couple wipes. I expect it'll get more difficult but it seems easy the first 4 and then a little more on the added attention required side.

I think it's fine because everybody is geared for it. we'll see the heroic side in a month to make a full determination (imo)

[Nekovivie]

Vastly overtuned. Every boss feels like a brick wall.

[Nobleshield]

Vastly overtuned. Every boss feels like a brick wall.

Do you have some concrete examples of this? Norushen I can see being the first "wall" for many guilds, because of the strict coordination it requires. I found Immerseus to be easy but you can easily wipe (as we did) if you underestimate the mechanics and don't heal enough of the little slimes in later waves. Protectors ironically seemed even easier than Immerseus and we have never had real issues with that, but I could see how tunneling DPS can cause a wipe if they don't switch targets properly.

What makes you think every boss is a brick wall?