Dire Beast vs. Thrill of the Hunt

[S7orm]

please keep using DB, i don't want TotH nerfed, it's just awesome

[Raugnaut]

Which spec are you talking about? TotH may make sense as BM since you have one signature spell less then MM and SV. As SV for example Dire Beast or Fervor will be superior due to the fact that you cannot spam AS as much.

Actually, for SV its even better. Sure, you have to save the focus for BA/ES, but you can use so many additional arcane shots that the damage goes quite up.

[Spl4sh3r]

30% Rapid Fire uptime is standard for me now

You must not have the Trinket yet then? Because I calculate around a 50% uptime with the trinket and 2set bonus. Especially as Survival or Beast Mastery. Meaning it would be up 15 seconds, then down 15 seconds, then up again for 15 seconds for the whole fight.

As for Thrill of the Hunt, it is crazy how often it is up. You actually have to start ignoring the proc because you have other abilities with higher priority.

[Walajanilu]

With 2 Piece tier 16 in mind, these should be the best choices *in my opinion* with little variance unless some changes come in the next few patches.

BM Single: BS + DB, BM AoE: BS, ToTH
Surv: BS + ToTH
MM: BS + ToTH

[Fortyz]

I've been using ToTH since 4pc T15+ meta+ dual RPPM as SV. While not the best it did very well for me in H T15. Now with the buffs I agree ToTH is the only way to go. AS is now a major DPS utility and not just a dump. Maximizing the use of this shot is very beneficial with 2pc. T16

[Deleted]

Atm i have 2set, flex AoC and WF Haromm's and Im playing SV (yes I know its worse, but I like it), 553 ilvl.
So for SV TotH with Lynx Rush and DB with AMoC simm pretty equal for me, all other setups of talents look worse.
I will stick with TotH (too many target switching for DB this tier except few fights), only not sure why Lynx Rush is simming so well. Its been buffed a bit and costs no focus, but still seems weak regardless of simm result. Any thoughts on this talent fellow hunters?

[Deleted]

I have 2 set and the cd reduction trinket (558ilvl) and for me ToTH only sims 450dps higher then DB in BM, i have however noticed that on single target fights like Norushen HC DB is much better since no human error can come in the way of it but on fights where there is any kind of AOE ToTH is obvious choice.
For SV ToTH is however a clear winner together with aMoC.

[Perrito]

You must not have the Trinket yet then? Because I calculate around a 50% uptime with the trinket and 2set bonus. Especially as Survival or Beast Mastery. Meaning it would be up 15 seconds, then down 15 seconds, then up again for 15 seconds for the whole fight.

As for Thrill of the Hunt, it is crazy how often it is up. You actually have to start ignoring the proc because you have other abilities with higher priority.

30% uptime is about right, you also need to remember that most of the time you dont have rapid fire up and is being delayed a bit is because focus fire maybe be up.

50% uptime is way too much, im using thrill of the hunt (maximizing the ammount of rapid fires i can get in a fight) and im seeing around 30%-35% uptime. im getting rapid fires every 45 sec since i just use it on the start while BW is up and almost come off cd when bw is comming out of cd.

agree with ignoring thrill of the hunt, watch more my focus bar and my KC cd. if you dont do it like this you can easy tunnel arcane shot and lose dps in the form of KC.

[Deleted]

You must not have the Trinket yet then? Because I calculate around a 50% uptime with the trinket and 2set bonus. Especially as Survival or Beast Mastery. Meaning it would be up 15 seconds, then down 15 seconds, then up again for 15 seconds for the whole fight.

As for Thrill of the Hunt, it is crazy how often it is up. You actually have to start ignoring the proc because you have other abilities with higher priority.

Got 4pc, sometimes i go entire lnl CDs just spamming ES, eats into my RF uptime

[Deleted]

I do not see where you all are getting your number from. If you are talking strictly single target DPS. Dire Beast is till hands down a DPS gain over ToTH or Fervor. Just look at Iron Juggernaut... all top parses are using Dire Beast.

It should be mind bogglingly obvious why this is the case on heroic.

[Beace]

It should be mind bogglingly obvious why this is the case on heroic.

Why? I haven't done him yet, is there any reason DB is extra strong against Juggernaut HC?

[mistahwilshire]

While not being the best, I've played with TotH all expansion, I've tried doing DB, but it goes nowhere as near. So I must say that it feels good now that TotH is used by more

Same. I've always pulled higher numbers than I do with DB on top of it being way more fun to fire off tons of AS.

[Deleted]

Why? I haven't done him yet, is there any reason DB is extra strong against Juggernaut HC?

The "meta" tactic involves playing P2 in africa, where a lot of time is spent just out of boss range, with a GCD here or there to spare.

[Deleted]

The "meta" tactic involves playing P2 in africa, where a lot of time is spent just out of boss range, with a GCD here or there to spare.

Disengage and deterrence are a thing, if you're out of range of the boss at any point you're doing it wrong

[Kibu]

Got 4pc, sometimes i go entire lnl CDs just spamming ES, eats into my RF uptime

Dela, quick question which bothers me as well, maybe im just doing crap math. With ToTH and 4xSet, whats the benefit of reforging haste > mastery ?

[Chippendale]

If anyone has Femaledwarf or Simcraft profiles in which ToTH outperforms Dire Beast for Beast Mastery from a mathematical standpoint, I would love to see them. In all test cases I've done, that is not proving to be true. It is quite possible I'm missing something, so if ToTH > DB for you (again, mathematically, not "it feels like it's better") I would love to see a FD profile.

[Goldeneagle]

If anyone has Femaledwarf or Simcraft profiles in which ToTH outperforms Dire Beast for Beast Mastery from a mathematical standpoint, I would love to see them. In all test cases I've done, that is not proving to be true. It is quite possible I'm missing something, so if ToTH > DB for you (again, mathematically, not "it feels like it's better") I would love to see a FD profile.

Did you calculate this with Cobra Strikes?
each time you use arcane shot it gives a % chance that the 2 next pet attacks will be critical hits.

[Chippendale]

Did you calculate this with Cobra Strikes?
each time you use arcane shot it gives a % chance that the 2 next pet attacks will be critical hits.

I'm aware of what Cobra Strikes does, and I'm also 99.99% sure that Zeherah does too, and modeled it accurately in Femaledwarf.
I don't know how to say this without sounding like a jackass, but I'm not sure what the point of your response was. Are you suggesting that FD does not model Cobra Strikes? It's quite possible I'm just missing something here as far as what you're trying to say.

[Saoron]

Dela, quick question which bothers me as well, maybe im just doing crap math. With ToTH and 4xSet, whats the benefit of reforging haste > mastery ?

That's something I was pondering over as well.. seeing as how much of your %dmg ends up being arcane shot and ES (being top by a huge margin) and then srs etc.. it only makes sense that it'd boost mastery up.. but sims don't agree with that.. maybe just cuz of the meta + cloak + auto shots etc /shrug.. the linear mastery gain should be better intuitively speaking.. FD isn't reliable with haste so simc woudl be the best option to test it out.

- - - Updated - - -

If anyone has Femaledwarf or Simcraft profiles in which ToTH outperforms Dire Beast for Beast Mastery from a mathematical standpoint, I would love to see them. In all test cases I've done, that is not proving to be true. It is quite possible I'm missing something, so if ToTH > DB for you (again, mathematically, not "it feels like it's better") I would love to see a FD profile.

TotH will never outperform DB for BM in pure single target.. the reason why some opt for it on certain fights (including myself) is when you won't get full uptime on DB..

[Chippendale]

TotH will never outperform DB for BM in pure single target.. the reason why some opt for it on certain fights (including myself) is when you won't get full uptime on DB..

Don't misunderstand me, this is exactly why I posted what I did. 90% of the posts in this thread were something along the lines of "Yeah I've replaced DB with ToTH 'cause it's better IMO", but it did not appear that anyone had math or sims to back it up. I was simply trying to find out if anyone DID have sims/math suggesting ToTH>DB, instead of the purely anecdotal evidence in previous posts.