ICD trinkets - a huge stressfactor

[Deleted]

Yesterday I got BoI HC and the week before it I got a WF cleave trinket from Malkorok. Of course, I was excited to have such amazing new gear (mostly the latter, haha) but after raiding a couple of hours with them, I only rarely seemed to get my procs up in time for AT, so I decided to do some testing with them:

From my tests it looks like these trinkets can only, in contrast to some of our other procs, proc on direct damage and dot applications. This means it can't proc on dot ticks (including NT cleave ticks) or cloak procs.

Since I am running with 2 ICD trinkets at the moment (BoI and cleave), this is quite devastating for my AT usage. Normally I get 4 AB's and one dot application off before I would want to AT normally - aka a grand total of 5 proc chances.

*please correct my maths if it is flawed*

Given 5 proc chances, 1 trinket and a proc chance of 15%, I have a 1 - 0.85^5 = ~55.6% chance of getting one proc.

Given 5 proc chances, 2 trinkets and a proc chance of 15%, I have a 1 - 0.85^10 = ~80.3% chance of getting one proc.

Given 5 proc chances, 2 trinkets and a proc chance of 15%, I have a (1 - 0.85^5)^2 = ~30.1% chance of getting both procs.

If I do another attack before at (dot application for instance), the chance rises to 38.8%,
2 extra attacks and I land on 46.2%
3 extra attacks and I finally go above 50-50 and land on 52.9%

This kind of RNG is simply not acceptable if you wanna be stable in a raiding environment.

**** ICD trinkets. At LEAST make them proc on dots like our meta/jadespirit/even lightweave (this would give us 10+ proc chances before AT).
This is going to be a huge stress factor during progression pulls - "Should I cast an extra spell or two, risking having my meta/other procs run out in order to get a little bigger chance of having the trinket proc before AT?? Should I AT without the procs and hope to god that they don't proc during AT?? Should I cancel AT if my trinket procs during??". IF you waste a proc, it's very mentally punishing in the sense that with RPPM, they could proc again any time - here you have to wait 85 or 115 seconds to get another chance!

I guess the bottomline must be that I'm looking very much forward to replacing my cleave trinket with an RPPM one, although I'll still be down at ~55.6% chance for BoI to proc before AT.

EDIT: On a lighter note, WHEN the stars align and I have all procs up, it's like being in heaven. Just did an ABarr crit for 1350k on a dummy. With flask, stat buff, mastery buff and crit banner that would easily go above 2m! Holy moley

[Libretto]

I don't mind the ICD trinket not proccing so quickly. The problem is that the RPPM trinkets will frequently proc right on the pull, meaning by the time you have a 4 stack of arcane charges you only have ~4 seconds left on the proc if even that, and IMHO it's not worth using AT if you don't have at least one missiles proc there either. So I just wait on AT for the ICD trinket, which just about always procs with ~15-20 sec left on glyphed AP. Plus, there's a decent chance the RPPM trinket will proc again after the first proc, so I can still get AT off with both procs.

Also, the cleave trinket is terrible on most of the fights and using last tier's (RPPM) trinkets would be better.

[mrgreenthump]

Then again I pick ICD trinkets over RPPM any day. You can predict when they proc, save nearby CD's. Adapt your rotation pre-emptively. Something that you can't do with RPPM, so you can adapt with RPPM on the fly, but it is no where near as effective as planning ahead..

But then again it's only me.

[Deleted]

I don't mind the ICD trinket not proccing so quickly. The problem is that the RPPM trinkets will frequently proc right on the pull, meaning by the time you have a 4 stack of arcane charges you only have ~4 seconds left on the proc if even that, and IMHO it's not worth using AT if you don't have at least one missiles proc there either. So I just wait on AT for the ICD trinket, which just about always procs with ~15-20 sec left on glyphed AP. Plus, there's a decent chance the RPPM trinket will proc again after the first proc, so I can still get AT off with both procs.

Also, the cleave trinket is terrible on most of the fights and using last tier's (RPPM) trinkets would be better.

If I wait 15 secs to pop AT, chances are my lightweave and meta have fallen off. And as far as I know, fishing for AM stacks is a dps loss if you let any important buffs run low.

I sim'd the cleave trinket vs my 530 BotH and the difference was less than 200dps on a patchwerk fight. Maybe the sims aren't up to date. I feel like it's providing very fine dps when it procs on pull and I can extend with AT, though. Bursting 800k+ single target without breaking a sweat (WHEN they proc).

I'm honestly just finding myself popping AT normally if I have at least 1 ICD proc. If I have the stronger one up and the weak one procs during AT, I will not cancel AT, but if I have the weaker proc up and the stronger procs during AT, I will cancel AT. I feel like a proc like that (14.3k int 20 secs) outweighs a couple of free AM procs, 6secs on meta/pot/jadespi/lightweave and a free 4 stack Barrage, but this might be terrible play and someone can do the math on that and correct me.

[Erolian]

If I wait 15 secs to pop AT, chances are my lightweave and meta have fallen off. And as far as I know, fishing for AM stacks is a dps loss if you let any important buffs run low.

I've yet to play with them and I'm stuck with decent/terrible trinkets depending on where you're sitting but whatever. @ the bolded - You have to ask yourself if those ICD trinkets are more or less important than your other procs. If they are worth more then you're actually losing dps popping AT early since you KNOW they're going to proc shortly, most likely during that AT burst only to be erased when your AT resets. I mean obviously you want to have it all proc on pull if possible but sometimes that isn't possible. Its just another layer of decision making that isn't necessarily a bad thing. I probably wouldn't go as far as cancelling the AT buff as I feel like that decision would be a marginal gain at best or a huge loss if done incorrectly maybe just a flat out loss

[Abraxis]

Playing Fire u don't even wait for the BoI-procc. The amplificationeffect is strong enough for itself. 15% Chance and 115sec ICD could make u delay AT/PoM/Comb way too long. Just use them on CD.

[Makarena]

I have to agree that immerseus trinket is absolutly fucking annoying for arcane. I had to make a cancelaura alter time macro because that shit definitely is taking a piss right now, the amount of time it procced DURING delayed or not delayed alter time is freaking absurd.

[Spliff]

I have to agree that immerseus trinket is absolutly fucking annoying for arcane. I had to make a cancelaura alter time macro because that shit definitely is taking a piss right now, the amount of time it procced DURING delayed or not delayed alter time is freaking absurd.

I was so happy when I got the trinket but this really does happen so often, it won't proc forever then it does during alter time... I've eaten the proc a couple of times as a result.

I thought I didn't like RPPM but honestly now I think I prefer it over ICD trinkets. Having everything proc on pull is really nice in my opinion. If they upped the proc chance even that would make me happy.

[Deleted]

The cleave trinket is pretty useless for most of the fights (all of them but galakras and spoils), any ToT trinket is better

[Deleted]

The cleave trinket is pretty useless for most of the fights (all of them but galakras and spoils), any ToT trinket is better

I sim'd the cleave trinket vs my 530 BotH and the difference was less than 200dps on a patchwerk fight. Maybe the sims aren't up to date. I feel like it's providing very fine dps when it procs on pull and I can extend with AT, though. Bursting 800k+ single target without breaking a sweat (WHEN they proc).

FWIW, I just got rank 3 on Malkorok normal (+others) with the cleave trinket equipped - and apart from my trinkets, my gear is not really very good - sitting 3% above hitcap at 554. It seems to perform a lot better than my 530 BotH from my scarce testing.